Old Guard?

Old Guard? (Full Version)

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octavia -> Old Guard? (7/22/2007 9:25:27 PM)
I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, but what exactly is old guard, or how is it defined? I have heard the term, and been told by Dom men that they are "old guard". The one thing about it I have heard, (no idea if true or not) is that people used to start as submissives and then after a time.. graduate into the Dominant role. I have no idea here, am just searching for information and am very curious how this melds with the idea that we are what we are, and these preferences are inherent in us rather than learned behaviors. thank you for your time, oct

NControlofU -> RE: Old Guard? (7/22/2007 9:45:58 PM)
Within a BDSM context, Old Guard is a term that is applied to the leather gay community of the post WWII era. A pretty good historical look at old guard is available online at http://www.lexlyons.org/OldGuardHistory.htm, THE OLD GUARD (The History of Leather Traditions) by Guy Baldwin M.S. Old Guard has nothing to do with starting as a sub and becoming a dom. Some people just like to throw around terms that they have created their own definitions for.

EvilGeoff -> RE: Old Guard? (7/22/2007 9:50:15 PM)
The term "Old Guard" or "Old Guard Leather" comes from the culture that developed after World War II in the Gay Leather motorcycle clubs. You might find some of the following articles useful: This classic article by Guy Baldwin - http://www.hawkeegn.com/bdsm/oldgd.html And the Joseph W. Bean masterpiece - http://www.iron-rose.com/ir/docs/old_guard.htm http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/dictionary/Old_Guard_leather/ http://www.leatherleadership.org/library/LLC6Baldwin.htm http://www.black-rose.com/cuiru/archive/4-2/oldguard.html http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=old%20guard YIK, - Geoff

chellekitty -> RE: Old Guard? (7/22/2007 10:04:40 PM)
i suppose if you're hookin up with 80 year old gay men....otherwise its usually a way to make them look more twue

obis -> RE: Old Guard? (7/22/2007 10:10:45 PM)
Old guard is anyone older than you, who wants you to accept whatever they say at face value because it has the official Old Guard seal of approval. no, really "Old Guard" is the group of gay men in the 50s and 60s who were involved in setting up the scene in NYC and SF that eventually spread to give us a lot of the stereotypes and customs we have today of BDSM groups and participants (though i'm sure someone will be along to correct me :P). Unless you're talking to a 70 year old gay man, he's probably just trying to sound impressive.

BitaTruble -> RE: Old Guard? (7/22/2007 10:49:00 PM)
~FR~ My great-grandmother was a candy-maker and she invented this amazingly delicious candy that I've never seen in any stores. It doesn't even have a real name. The title of the recipe is White Candy. I used to make it myself even though she died before I was born because she passed the recipe down to my grandmother who, in her time, passed it down to me. I've since passed it along to my own daughter and her boys delight in it's delicate, sweet taste. The inventor of the candy died over 50 years ago, but the candy lives on in her descendants and the love they have for both making it and eating it. The world is filled with similar stories. Ideas and ideals can be passed down just as easily as a recipe. All it takes is a willing teacher and a willing student. Celeste

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Old Guard? (7/22/2007 10:54:24 PM)
http://www.collarchat.com/m_1052801/mpage_1/key_old%252Cguard/tm.htm#1052921 What exactly IS old guard? http://www.collarchat.com/m_558761/mpage_1/key_old%252Cguard/tm.htm#559207 Old Guard- who are these people? http://www.collarchat.com/m_486010/mpage_1/key_old%252Cguard/tm.htm#486045 Old Guard (4) http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=109&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#109 The term "old guard" http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=8377&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#8377 Old Guard Myth or Not http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=20268&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#20268 old guard??? http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=26450&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#26450 old guard? http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=62276&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#62276 Old guard...New guard...what guard? http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=63736&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#63736 old guard vs old school http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=79737&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#79737 Old Guard (2) http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=83839&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#83839 Old Guard Master http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=88818&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#88818 Old Guard? (5) http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=150042&mpage=1&key=old%2Cguard&#150042 Old Guard (3)

octavia -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 7:11:02 AM)
thank you very much all. [:)]

CelticPrince -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 7:45:20 AM)
octavia, Reading down the short list of replies, there are the normal number of factual comments and the snide ones as well. What is missing so far is the evolution of the pricipal that were practiced by the "Old Guard" / trust, respect, honor and a few other considerations such as protocols. The priciples behind the term old guard live on in many "D"'s and the initial "group of old gay men' has died long ago, and what has evolved is the core values that I mentioned above. CP

Grlwithboy -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 8:16:22 AM)
The "Old Gay Men" thankfully, did talk to people and play with young gay men who continue to talk to people. It's not Atlantis, either, folks.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 8:42:24 AM)
I was speaking to someone who has a whole lot more experience than I do the other day. He made an interesting statement: Old Guard isn't nessesarily a title that denotes a certain set of rules but a name given to an era in time, like the California Gold Rush speaks of that era. The Old Guard, overall, dealt with a military protocol in Ms relationships overall as hunting for gold was the over all goal for the Gold Rush. For each, there were a lot of different methods and tools used to reach the end goal. Master Fire

LotusSong -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 8:57:01 AM)
Could it be that some use the term old guard when they mean old school?

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 10:14:58 AM)
all i know is it never maters anyway we are always trying to redefine things.. i know there only two groups that are the oldest bdsm groups around TES being one them other was started by a woman who is no longer with us pass on a few years ago that group was out in cali can not remeber the name. everyone is going to tell you something or some kinda of phoney blony i just go what ever lol...

chellekitty -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 10:35:07 AM)
no...its not atlantis...but the 89 cent loaf of bread is not your grandma's home made bread either...it evolves, and sure there are people that still use the same recipe as 50 or 60 years ago...and yes my comment was snide but my point was that sure theres some original home made bread makers out there, but most people are buying it off the shelf...does that make it worse...no, just different...and people like to take store bought items out of the package to "make them their own"...i said usually...which means most of the time, not all the time...sure theres some out there still practicing the principles that their forefathers taugh them, right or wrong...but if they were to look at the average online Dom claiming to be Old Gaurd they would piss themselves laughing or something like that... chelle, who could not converse without metaphors

KatyLied -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 10:55:17 AM)
I think dominants use the term having no clue what it really means and how it was started. It makes me laugh, it certainly doesn't impress me.

MisPandora -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 10:57:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: octavia I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, but what exactly is old guard, or how is it defined? I have heard the term, and been told by Dom men that they are "old guard". The one thing about it I have heard, (no idea if true or not) is that people used to start as submissives and then after a time.. graduate into the Dominant role. I have no idea here, am just searching for information and am very curious how this melds with the idea that we are what we are, and these preferences are inherent in us rather than learned behaviors. thank you for your time, oct I snicker every time I hear someone claim they're OG trained, especially when they're a het male 50 or younger. LOL good stuff.

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 12:03:19 PM)
ok, so let me ask then. What is an M10? Had a master say this to a friend of mine in claiming his experience. I believe he has also used Old Guard, but perhaps it was Old School. He strikes me as the type to brag without having the chops to back it up.....

Grlwithboy -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 12:11:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chellekitty no...its not atlantis...but the 89 cent loaf of bread is not your grandma's home made bread either...it evolves, and sure there are people that still use the same recipe as 50 or 60 years ago...and yes my comment was snide but my point was that sure theres some original home made bread makers out there, but most people are buying it off the shelf...does that make it worse...no, just different...and people like to take store bought items out of the package to "make them their own"...i said usually...which means most of the time, not all the time...sure theres some out there still practicing the principles that their forefathers taugh them, right or wrong...but if they were to look at the average online Dom claiming to be Old Gaurd they would piss themselves laughing or something like that... chelle, who could not converse without metaphors I'm in total agreement with your points. The people I know who have any valid connection to said view it with unromanticized notions of good AND bad points in regard to that time and place, not some halcyon schlock about "how it used to be."

SimplyMichael -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 12:37:06 PM)
It is the bdsm equivelent of jacked up pickup trucks and or go fast parts on a tiny econo cars.

MadRabbit -> RE: Old Guard? (7/23/2007 2:44:36 PM)
Generally speaking, if claimed by a heterosexual man who is under 50, it most likely means "full of shit".

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