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RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/23/2007 10:04:56 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Why would you expect more in a dominat man than a vanilla one?  Would you accept a dishonorable man if he held no whip? 

I expect the same from anyone I associate with on a certain level, be it close friend, girlfirend, or Mistress.  You can't be arsed to take me seriously, and I will return the favour.

As to the BDSM dating process, I don't know what I said.  What I will stand by saying is that blacklists on open groups don't work because everyone has different standards, so one person's view of me is never objective.

In other words, it doesn't work.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy calling me a jerk, as I am certainly doing so to this abuse.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to sexypet)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 9:10:59 AM   
Mikal


Posts: 3673
Status: offline 		Figured I might as well jump on the hijacking thread bandwagon too...

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexypet

i was remarking on Your stated "little experience" and how You were awfully opinionated on the BDSM dating process that you have such little experience with... Having Vanilla dating experience doesn't apply here.  Again, directly from Your profile "I have little experience".  Your ideas of how things might be or how You would like them to be, and how things actually manifest real time are going to be VERY different experiences. 

How, exacly, do you expect the vanilla & BDSM dating processes to differ? Particularily in the beginning??? Both require all parties to feel safe in the company of the other, and to believe that the other party is sane enough to be alone with. Then there's the general compatibility issues. That involves more that just sex - if all you have in common is kink, your relationship (outside of being f*ck buddies - which vanilla's have also) won't last.

If you (as in people in general) didn't have pre-concieved opinions and notions on stuff... we wouldn't be human. No one ever goes into any type of situation without some notions... whether it be into the jungle for a safari, a relationship, or trying to make/invent something that hasn't been seen before.

quote:

If You're not seeking, then You are certainly not gaining any experience, well, except at acting like a jerk most of the time and getting off on it.   

Personally, i expect more from a Dominant man than a Vanilla one; i.e., His meaning what He says, being Honorable in intent and actions, etc.

Again, seemingly what i dream of, certainly not what i experience overall in reality.  Sadly.

Right here, your "Your ideas of how things might be or how You would like them to be, and how things actually manifest real time are going to be VERY different experiences" bit comes into play, with regards to yourself. Men, Dom/Master/vanilla/other are human, and no one subset is better than the other. Some men will lie, cheat, by psychotic, etc. regarless of sexual orientation. Ditto for women. You seem to have a pre-concieved notion that a Dom will/should be a better person/human being than a vanilla.

How is what you dream of/pre-concieve/experience any different from benji or anyone else?

As I stated above, every single person has ideas of how things should be, how we'd like them to be, and what they are in reality. I think there should be world peace. I'd like for there to be less bloody conflict. In reality, neither are going to happen.

Finally, just because a person doesn't have loads of experience in something, doesn't make their opinions and notions invalid. How many psychiatrists/psychologists/doctors treating people who suffer from illnesses that the doctors themselves have never experienced? Sometimes, simply observing what's going on in a situation around you is good enough - sometimes better. Afterall, just because you've experienced something doesn't mean you know all the in's-and-out's. You know what you know from your perspective. An outsider will know what they know from seeing more angles at play.

Hopefully, this makes sense. 

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to sexypet)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 9:46:50 AM   
latexbarbiets


Posts: 93
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		I am reposting this post from alt.com on a guide for subs. Not sure it this will help anyone but cant hurt to post it. BTW i'm in the leg breaking business for a small fee of 1 cent, any Doms/Dommes that mistreat their subs beware! Steel toed Pony boots FTW:)

Hugs

barbie

"THE ESSENTIAL SUB'S GUIDE TO SPOTTING FAKES AND ABUSERS(REVISED)
7/20/2007 1:56 PM

1.Does he ask relevant questions? A genuine Dom has to know
enough about you both to give you what you need and to ensure
that your needs are compatible with his own. You may find
the questions difficult, but if he is not asking questions
it is a very strong indication that he is only interested
in his own needs.


2.Does he want to play at your place? If so, why? Most genuine
Doms will want to arrange scenes at their home. If not then
maybe their Mummy won't let them, or maybe they are
married or in a relationship.


3.Has he sent you a picture? A man who posts a picture of his
penis may be showing you his best feature. Often it is not
possible for a Dom to post a full face picture, but before
you meet he should send you one.


4.Does he want you to call him Master or Sir? Anyone who expects
this from the outset definitely sounds suspicious. Master
or Sir may sometimes be appropriate in a scene, but not before.



5.Does he boast about his toys? Another bad sign. A Dom's
best feature is his mind.


6.Does he ask if you are naughty? This sort of question is
usually a sign of immaturity, inexperience or inadequacy.



7.Does he try to persuade you to do things you weren't
looking for, like being clamped when you wanted to be spanked?
Steer well clear. Doms have their own areas of interest
but a genuine Dom would rather turn you away than bully you
into doing something you don't want.


8.Does he ask about limits? A genuine Dom should be asking
about your previous experiences and establishing how
far you want him to go. He should always make sure that you
have a safeword.


9.Does he show you respect? A genuine Dom knows the difference
between what happens in a scene and what happens outside.



10.Is he interested in YOUR sexual needs? Or more interested
in what you are prepared to do? Doms have their own needs
and he should discuss this with you. Remember you make TWO
consents, a consent to specific BDSM activity AND a consent
to sex. Make sure that he knows what is acceptable and what
is off limits. Anal sex and the use of condoms are the commonest
areas of concern. Play safe.


11.Does he show signs of knowledge or wisdom?Does he reveal
anything of himself? If not you may be better looking elsewhere.



12.Is he confident enough to show humour, kindness and
warmth?


13.Does he understand the difference between fantasy
and reality and make sure that you know also?


14.Is he patient? Does he take time to explain things and
to ensure you feel safe?


15.Does he say he wants to train you? Unless you are looking
for a 24/7 relationship you don't need formal training.
This is often a ruse which leads to abuse.


16.Does he tell you that limits are for wimps and that real
subs don't use safewords? Dump him fast.


The above points are not exhaustive. Doms are not perfect,
so don't expect to tick all the boxes, but if you are
getting the right answers you have a good chance of meeting
a genuine Dom and having a good experience.


SOME FINAL POINTS


A sub who is looking for a Dom should first spend some time
thinking about her own needs and motivations. If you have
difficulty understanding your own needs, and many submissive
women do, then it becomes more difficult for the Dom to set
the scene. Far better to talk to others before you reach
the stage where you decide to play.


The time to decide what is and what is not acceptable is BEFORE
you play. None of what I have said changes the dynamics of
D/s play. You both agree in broad terms about content and
set limits. The Dom then has a framework in which he can set
the scene and control it.


Remember that SSC is there for your protection. If you are
not enjoying what is happening don't be frightened
of walking away, and don't worry about any insults
that might follow from the Dom you walk away from. There
are other Doms who will be more considerate of your needs.



You may long for a 24/7 relationship, but if you are a newcomer
beware the siren voices. It is much better to dip your toe
in the water before you dive in. Try a one-off scene. Fantasy
and reality are very diffent. Whilst you may fantasize
about pain and/or being dominated you may find the reality
different. Take it slowly.


Don't necessarily reject those who openly admit to
inexperience. We all have to start somewhere and someone
who is honest enough to admit their inexperience may be
more likely to respond to your needs than those that are
primarily interested in their own."




(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 9:53:14 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		these are worth putting in the chips, but certainly not anything more than fluff.

2.Does he want to play at your place? If so, why? Most genuine
Doms will want to arrange scenes at their home. If not then
maybe their Mummy won't let them, or maybe they are
married or in a relationship. 

How about a man of some experience will come to the understanding that the slaves are at the outset more comfortable and secure in their own surroundings, giving them the semblance of some control?

I could counterpoint each and every one of these bullshit statements, while they may have the same value as a magazine in the bathroom, that is the limit of their value.

Ron    



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to latexbarbiets)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 10:05:43 AM   
SweetCaleigh


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/22/2006
Status: offline 		i have had my problems with so-called fakes as well. 
 
i am an easy person to get along with. i try to never judge anyone for who or what they are, but it seems strange though how different people bring out the best or worst in you.  i have had experiences where things go well, but then some how something happens and he would consider me a total bitch and a fake.  Which isn't true at all about being the fake, but i will admit my bitchiness can come out at times.  Sometimes for reasons unknown and other times for good reason.  It has been rare, but it's happened and so i am probably, for some men, considered a fake.
 
One other time i met a Master and slave couple.  We hit it off really well on line and the e-mails to each other were great!  When i met them it seemed like a very good day and we all got along.  Then out of the blue with no real explanation they cut me off totally the next day and said they wanted nothing to do with me.  i have NEVER had that happen to me, and i never imagined that these two would even do this.  It hurt a lot, but i guess things happen. 
 
i guess my point is, no matter how much you try and be yourself there are some people out there that would consider you a fake even if you aren't.  And the same goes for the other side.  You may think that eventually the person is fake to You (and maybe that person is) but how do you really know?  It might be just a conflict of interests and a lack of communication. 
 
It's just another way of looking at things. 
*sweet caleigh*

(in reply to latexbarbiets)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 10:13:18 AM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetCaleigh

i have had my problems with so-called fakes as well. 
  
One other time i met a Master and slave couple.  We hit it off really well on line and the e-mails to each other were great!  When i met them it seemed like a very good day and we all got along.  Then out of the blue with no real explanation they cut me off totally the next day and said they wanted nothing to do with me.  i have NEVER had that happen to me, and i never imagined that these two would even do this.  It hurt a lot, but i guess things happen. 
 
i guess my point is, no matter how much you try and be yourself there are some people out there that would consider you a fake even if you aren't.  And the same goes for the other side.  You may think that eventually the person is fake to You (and maybe that person is) but how do you really know?  It might be just a conflict of interests and a lack of communication.  
 


This thread I started turned out to be quite interesting in that it veered into areas that I was not asking about.

I am experienced, not a newbie so those who were advising what to look for in a new Dom, were cool but I was not asking about it.

The people who said why am I asking advice; I never did, I was just venting that night.

The people who keep talking about "fakes". I never said this person I was involved with was a fake Dom, I feel that he was an asshole person who professed something that he wanted and then disappeared after getting it. When I said "so called Dom" I should have clarified that to say "so-called class person who communicates effectively and has the guts to walk away while telling the other person why".

In retrospect, I would no longer call him or any of these men or women who behave in a less than honorable way "bad boys or girls".  I would just call them nothing; for nothing is what they provide beyond the initial infatuation. There is no substance.

I would say that I chose to engage with someone because I felt a pull of chemistry, a common ground for interests and we had fun. He ended up treated me with no respect by just "disappearing" and that happens from D/s or vanilla relationships all the time. Ok, my bad, it happened, next.

It did not work out, it is disappointing, yes, but in actuality, I am glad I know now after a few weeks of real life interaction with him, then months or years down the line.

The only problem I see now is navigating the treacherous waters of being able to trust someone enough to get to know them, have them get to know me and somehow have both our D/s needs met.

That is the issue, here, not warning others about things that we all have to deal with and go through. It is part of life and the pursuit of relationships of substance and value and while difficult, the alternative would be worse, of NOT trying.

< Message edited by SexyRed -- 7/24/2007 10:18:38 AM >

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to SweetCaleigh)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 10:36:30 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Is this thread still going on? Jeez...

This is what you do (or at least what has been done in the past): You create a site or discussion list that blacklists people. You can find what you need via Yahoo groups, myspace, etc. If you are intrepid you'll find a way. Then you email people that start getting really whiny about their relationships and tell them about your site - for balance it might be nice if there were sections for all categories: dom, sub, switch, ts, gay men, gay women, bi, etc. However, lack of balance has never stopped anyone before. That's it. That's what you do. Some of you have probably already been contacted by one of the people on CM that has done this already (15 letters). There's no trick or mystery to it. Now you can defame anyone you like however unjustified and they can't even reply - nor would they probably care to reply even if they knew about your accusations!

Woohoo!

Now let me tell you why you shouldn't do any of the above.

Let's say we have a sub named Jane that seeks her one and only male dom. She finds the aptly named Dick. Dick isn't very nice: he's a game player, a faker, a cheat, a con artist, etc. In short, Dick is a dick. For the first few months Dick is really nice and Jane is finding her groove with him. All is right with the world. Then Dick becomes more strange until Jane is convinced there is something wrong about him. She goes to a website she was told about and blacklists the screen name under which Dick does his terrible deeds.

This is why it doesn't work:

When Jane makes her post or writes to the "blacklist discussion list" what she is really doing is telling you all about herself. Dick is not present. Dick probably doesn't know about it. Dick is not there to defend anything said against him. So all you have is a story about Jane and how she let herself get fooled and dragged along because she's so eager to find her one and only dom that she left common sense out of the picture. No matter what Jane says happened to her, all she is telling you about is how Jane perceives and interacts with the world around her. Her's is a subjective opinion, not an objective one - she's full of venom for Dick and the truth isn't necessarily part of the story she tells. To be fair, it's not entirely her fault - we are all of us trapped in our own subjective viewpoints. That's how the world works: we know how and why things went wrong for us but we don't always understand all of the reasons why because our knowledge is finite.

There are ways that Jane can improve her lot. Mainly she needs a better bullshit detector. But these forums are full of stories of people that let hormone rushes do their thinking for them. Let's call it roadkill on the way to BDSM paradise.

There's plenty of roadkill, you betcha!

(in reply to SweetCaleigh)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 10:41:32 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed
I would say that I chose to engage with someone because I felt a pull of chemistry, a common ground for interests and we had fun. He ended up treated me with no respect by just "disappearing" and that happens from D/s or vanilla relationships all the time. Ok, my bad, it happened, next....

...That is the issue, here, not warning others about things that we all have to deal with and go through. It is part of life and the pursuit of relationships of substance and value and while difficult, the alternative would be worse, of NOT trying.


Exactly.


(in reply to SexyRed)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 10:58:11 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Then consider yourself bitchmarked.


Reminds me of Robin Williams' spiel about cats marking their territory, and using his water battle held at his crotch to mark the front row of the audience.

"Nice car, Bob, (spray) mine now."

I hope the person LAM is responding to is wearing raingear, elephants tend to micturate gallons at a time.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 11:48:08 AM   
asubmissiveheart


Posts: 462
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		This thread is worth reading.
It might help open some people's eyes.
I don't understand the need for some members to be so critical.
If you don't like this thread, don't read it.
Thanks for having the guts to start this thread, SexyRed.

< Message edited by asubmissiveheart -- 7/24/2007 11:49:04 AM >

(in reply to SexyRed)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 1:48:28 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asubmissiveheart
This thread is worth reading.
It might help open some people's eyes.


Of course.  But somehow, I doubt it will stop the silly idea.

quote:


I don't understand the need for some members to be so critical.
If you don't like this thread, don't read it.


Basically, it's a TOS violating idea that would not work because it would be abused and falls into defamation of character even when used the way it is supposed to.

quote:


Thanks for having the guts to start this thread, SexyRed.


And every other person who has started a similar, highly creative thread.  It does take guts to vent, I know.

And if you don't like my answer, don't read it. 

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to asubmissiveheart)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 1:52:23 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Bla bla bla....  whatevs, dude.


Well said!  Really well said, SugarMyChurr.....Oh, you sick fuck.  LOL

Yours,


benji

PS: seriously, well said. 

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 1:54:54 PM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asubmissiveheart

This thread is worth reading.
It might help open some people's eyes.
I don't understand the need for some members to be so critical.
If you don't like this thread, don't read it.
Thanks for having the guts to start this thread, SexyRed.


Thank you. Who cares about the critical members.  I ignore them and take the best of the serious input to heart, as I have ably demonstrated in my follow up posts.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to asubmissiveheart)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 2:02:18 PM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: asubmissiveheart
This thread is worth reading.
It might help open some people's eyes.


Of course.  But somehow, I doubt it will stop the silly idea. (what silly idea?)

quote:


I don't understand the need for some members to be so critical.
If you don't like this thread, don't read it.


Basically, it's a TOS violating idea that would not work because it would be abused and falls into defamation of character even when used the way it is supposed to.

quote:


Thanks for having the guts to start this thread, SexyRed.


And every other person who has started a similar, highly creative thread.  It does take guts to vent, I know. (This started as a vent and turned into a more interesting exchange of ideas, but of course, YOU missed that in your pursuit of trying to be oh so cutsie. Your charm does not work on all of us posters, I can assure you).

And if you don't like my answer, don't read it.  (No we can read it, but we can discount every word you say, just as you have done to anyone interesting who has posted here)

Yours,


benji


_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 6:27:28 PM   
asubmissiveheart


Posts: 462
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		SexyRed, don't let the little boy get to you.
Just ignore the brats and online bullies.

(in reply to SexyRed)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 8:13:01 PM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asubmissiveheart

SexyRed, don't let the little boy get to you.
Just ignore the brats and online bullies.


Thanks, hon. I could ignore them, I just don't suffer fools gladly, so I like to speak up.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to asubmissiveheart)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 8:23:01 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		My favorite people are ones who tend to be opinionated and are not afraid to express those opinions.  They tend not to fade in to the crowd.....They are the folks who make life interesting whether you agree with them or not.

_____________________________



(in reply to SexyRed)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 8:48:07 PM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

My favorite people are ones who tend to be opinionated and are not afraid to express those opinions.  They tend not to fade in to the crowd.....They are the folks who make life interesting whether you agree with them or not.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. And that is why you are always a person who I hope shows up on threads.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/24/2007 9:22:50 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Shucks....(domiguy looks down at his feet kicking some imaginary pebbles)  I've always wanted to see you naked.

_____________________________



(in reply to SexyRed)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: I seriously wish there was a way we could warn othe... - 7/25/2007 6:41:40 AM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Shucks....(domiguy looks down at his feet kicking some imaginary pebbles)  I've always wanted to see you naked.


awwww..that is so cute!

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 80
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