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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/26/2007 7:44:17 PM

popeye1250

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Sinergy, that's exactly what it is, a downward spiral.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/26/2007 7:46:32 PM

Sinergy

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Interesting article, Level.

I had heard that as well, the drop in service and quality leads to a steeper drop in profit than saved by outsourcing to Sri Lanka.

So a lot of companies are moving back to first world countries.

My post was mainly because people who bag on unionization as the cause for job issues in the United States seems rather uneducated and ignorant.

United we bargain, divided we beg.

On a related note, a source was cited in "Confessions of an Economic Hit-Man" about how to quell civil unrest among the unemployed. The source is one provided by the World Bank as part of their loan package.

Sinergy

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/26/2007 7:57:33 PM

CruelGorean

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I am an american born, bred, and raised in this country. There are 3 faults here. Big buisness, the government, and lazy work ethics. Big buisness goes to whereever they can save the most money, the governtment allows this to happen because most americans are lazy bums that sit on their ass and collect welfare checks. And I am probablly breaking a taboo here by blaming my own americans.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/26/2007 8:02:25 PM

Sinergy

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Ya know. I belong to one of the most powerful unions on the planet.

I agree with a fellow union member that there is plenty of dunnage (the crap left at the bottom of the hold when the cargo has been pulled out of it) in the union. In any population of people, you will find lazy, good for nothing, poor work ethic people. What ends up happening in places like China is these individuals starve to death.

I really doubt the CEO of Walmart works as hard as I do. Yet he makes 1000 times more per hour than I do.

Yet he sees nothing wrong with issuing a press release stating that American Workers are lazy and he has to use labor in Indonesia to keep his profits up.

If you want to trash an individual worker for being a waste of skin, do so, but to paint the entire populace of the United States of America with that brush is rather insulting to those of us who work for a living.

Sinergy

edited to apologize if I seem cranky, I stacked hundreds of chassis today and Im really tired from working.

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 7/26/2007 8:03:50 PM >

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/26/2007 9:15:37 PM

gooddogbenji

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Corporations do what they do because investors, such as retirement funds, the wealthy, and your child's college fund, demand return on investment. If people stopped buying their product and demanding profit from these companies (and by the ripple effect, bought into lower paying ethical funds) these companies would get punished for it.

Bitch all you want about outsourced manufacturing. I call it hypocrisy until I see you even look at where the shit you buy is coming from, let alone select a more expensive product simply because it's made in the USA.

Yours,

benji

PS: This aint directed at Sinergy, but at anyone who blames corporate America for anything but doing what we allow them to.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/26/2007 10:40:38 PM

Marc2b

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I have a question. Why do we operate on the paradigm that a job is "American." In this thinking there is an underlying assumption that we are owed jobs, or at least certain jobs. A job comes into existence for one reason and one reason only – somebody wants something done and they do not have the time and/or expertise to do it themselves, so they pay someone else to do it for them. A person possesses nationality but a job – a task that needs doing – is not American or Canadian or Brazilian or whatever. It simply is.

As with any other commodity, an employer will seek to get the best product (in this case, labor and/or knowledge) at the best price. Why do we assume that they owe it to anyone of a particular nationality? Personally, I would hope that American employers would seek to employ their fellow Americans whenever possible, a little team spirit in other words, but running a business isn’t about nationality, it is about making a profit. As lockedaway pointed out, if the labor costs for a particular task are $25.00 an hour here and only $3.00 an hour overseas (not to mention the numerous other reasons Mercnbeth pointed out), can you blame them for taking their business overseas?

If we want to keep more jobs in America we need economic policies that would encourage it. Whole volumes have been written about what is and is not good economic policy so I’ll just keep this short: do away with a myriad of nonsensical regulations, lower taxes, eliminate the minimum wage.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/26/2007 11:32:38 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Corporations do what they do because investors, such as retirement funds, the wealthy, and your child's college fund, demand return on investment. If people stopped buying their product and demanding profit from these companies (and by the ripple effect, bought into lower paying ethical funds) these companies would get punished for it.

Bitch all you want about outsourced manufacturing. I call it hypocrisy until I see you even look at where the shit you buy is coming from, let alone select a more expensive product simply because it's made in the USA.

Yours,

benji

PS: This aint directed at Sinergy, but at anyone who blames corporate America for anything but doing what we allow them to.

Benji, look no further!
I actually go out of my way to buy American and when I'm buying something from LL Bean online I'll e-mail them and ask if the items I'm interested in are "Made in the USA."
If they're not, I don't buy.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 12:07:36 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Corporations do what they do because investors, such as retirement funds, the wealthy, and your child's college fund, demand return on investment. If people stopped buying their product and demanding profit from these companies (and by the ripple effect, bought into lower paying ethical funds) these companies would get punished for it.

Bitch all you want about outsourced manufacturing. I call it hypocrisy until I see you even look at where the shit you buy is coming from, let alone select a more expensive product simply because it's made in the USA.

Yours,

benji

PS: This aint directed at Sinergy, but at anyone who blames corporate America for anything but doing what we allow them to.

So, what's the name of the Senator who will take YOUR call personally, whenever you choose to tell him what you want him to do?

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 12:39:26 AM

Bluebird

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I am perhaps the only one who wonders at the irony of this thread - note the typos in the subject line of this topic. I see one misspelling and one capitalization error in that one simple sentence. I wouldn't tolerate that in a subordinate - if someone won't learn proper English communication skills, I don't have use for him or her.

Yeah, I'm cranky tonight. The grammar police are ALWAYS alert.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 12:43:20 AM

ElectraGlide

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I am not all together putting down Unions. I feel it is a choice. A choice that I do not want. I already work for a 3rd party employment company. They told us they will just pull another 3rd party in there. The Union has no power over the next 3rd party. A slick move big companies use. I am not all that worried about loosing my job, because I have had to start from scratch all over before. I feel our company is offering a good package to prevent you from wanting a union. The best in our County.
I go by what I see and the feel of the situation. I just cant see siding with the lame sorry people I work with.
I have no idea on the Wal-Mart labor situation. I wonder if Wal-Mart employees are drug tested, does any body know ? People that I know that lost jobs due to a drug test, ended up at Wal-Mart.
Here is something to think about. The people that want the Union talk about how unfair and brutal the place is, but yet they have worked there many years, are they mentally ill, do you think ? I do, we have many places to work in this area. I am in between Philly and Baltimore, we even have people driving over an hour to work at this mean brutal place, they complain the worse. They drive by hundreds of places to work that are real close to their homes. I only live 5 minutes away, and I do not think it is that bad. I have seen much worse.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 12:47:55 AM

ElectraGlide

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The Grammer Police- I left school along time ago. Although I did loose sleep once because I did not use a capitol letter to start a sentence. I should of used spell check.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 1:12:43 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluebird

I am perhaps the only one who wonders at the irony of this thread - note the typos in the subject line of this topic. I see one misspelling and one capitalization error in that one simple sentence. I wouldn't tolerate that in a subordinate - if someone won't learn proper English communication skills, I don't have use for him or her.

Yeah, I'm cranky tonight. The grammar police are ALWAYS alert.

Hell.....If you think you've got bug up your ass now—over an innocuous thread title-- how do you suppose you will feel once those big eighteen-wheelers start rolling in from across the border with folks driving them who basically have the mental capacity /education of 5th grade elementary student?

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 7/27/2007 1:14:17 AM >

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 1:20:00 AM

came4U

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oh boy..someone discussed pissing and spiralling

I'm dizzy now.

if one can do both at the same time, it is like magna-doodle, except wetter. *hot in here now.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 1:33:42 AM

Bluebird

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I think you are missing my point. Those who know how to present themselves properly generally have a better shot at getting and retaining jobs. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly, I will grant you) that someone who does not take the time to proof a document would also be careless in other matters of more urgency. A post on these boards IS meaningless in "the real world" - but I was commenting on the irony of complaining about jobs disappearing while ignoring the base issue of a poorly educated population. The fact that it is the title of the thread, not just a post, highlighted the issue further.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 1:46:57 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Interesting article, Level.

I had heard that as well, the drop in service and quality leads to a steeper drop in profit than saved by outsourcing to Sri Lanka.

So a lot of companies are moving back to first world countries.

My post was mainly because people who bag on unionization as the cause for job issues in the United States seems rather uneducated and ignorant.

United we bargain, divided we beg.

On a related note, a source was cited in "Confessions of an Economic Hit-Man" about how to quell civil unrest among the unemployed. The source is one provided by the World Bank as part of their loan package.

Sinergy

My dad, brother, and I all belonged to a local; like in most things, there's good and bad to be found with unions. But yep, they've helped bring a lot to the average worker.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 1:53:10 AM

Stephann

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My issue with Unions is a tad unusual. I fully support what unions stand for. I also fully support the ideas behind the old AT&T, Microsoft, and Wall Mart. What I don't support, are the end results that lack of regulation permits. The irony, is that those most able to enforce regulation (lawmakers) are those with their hands tied tightest by virtue of their campaign donations (Union lobbysts.) To boot, unions fight tooth and nail to save their constituents' jobs, in the form of fighting quality control, competency standards, assessments, etc. In fighting to protect the 15% least capable workers, unions end up degrading the quality and opportunities of life for the other 85%.

Campaign finance reform would go a very healthy distance towards allowing regulation of union practices; like their symbionts the capitalist juggernauts, the union's very nature of self-interest makes it least likely to curtail their own social shortcomings.

Stephan

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 2:20:02 AM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluebird

I think you are missing my point. Those who know how to present themselves properly generally have a better shot at getting and retaining jobs. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly, I will grant you) that someone who does not take the time to proof a document would also be careless in other matters of more urgency. A post on these boards IS meaningless in "the real world" - but I was commenting on the irony of complaining about jobs disappearing while ignoring the base issue of a poorly educated population. The fact that it is the title of the thread, not just a post, highlighted the issue further.

Ok.... point taken. But surely you understand that we're not losing those jobs to folks who are better educated?

Instead of lifting-up the bottom rung, a notch closer to those at the top - it works just in the opposite; taking those at the top down, closer to the bottom ---That's the utter fallacy behind the utopian vision of globalism.

The bottom is never elevated to what was once at the top.

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 7/27/2007 2:24:24 AM >

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 2:37:29 AM

ChallengeMe

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Problem #1 is that we have allowed our government to get out of control.

Not that government is too strong...on the contrary, it is too weak.

Our government is routinely rented by out too-powerful corporations, who can essentially get government to do almost anything they want it to.

Money buys elections, and leadership positions are too subject to the simple fact that you can buy a leadership position with the money of others, but cannot hold that too-lucritive position without bowing as a slave to the ones who bought that position.

Politicians make the NICEST slaves.

And in our nation, we have allowed cash wealth to be the ultimate source of all power, and the ultimate source of power.

Feedback loop, we tend to vote for the candidate we think will grant us the best shot at money.

We've become a plutocracy. The writing is on the wall.

And so the world trade organization, the world's conglomerate of extremely wealthy corporate power, gets whatever it wants.

And so we have tarriffs so low, that it is cheaper to ship 50 tons of mardi gras beads across an ocean and a sea, when the factory could be located in the city that uses them, instead.

Remove the incentives: add term limits to the house. If a representative had only one term or two, he would have no reason to serve the interests of those attempting to purchase our government. Give senators single life terms, subject to an up-or-down vote every four years approving them or removing them. Congress would retain it's intended character: a senior house of wise men, and a junior house of common folk.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 2:41:26 AM

ChallengeMe

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< A post on these boards IS meaningless in "the real world">

to borrow from a song, I've found that there's no such thing as the real world...that's just a lie you have to rise above.

It's all "the real world" every last bit of it....even a silly chatroom.

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RE: Who do you blame for American Jobs getting shipped ... - 7/27/2007 6:50:32 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Meat, that isn't capitalism at all.
I don't know what you're talking about but in "Capitalism" if you can't get labor you raise the wages and benefits until you can get labor.

Corporations can get labour popeye....in China!