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RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/1/2007 11:27:35 PM

EvilGeoff

Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
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Being a minority can be an uncomfortable experience... I know from some of my own experiences.... Like the first Parliament concert I went to (the "Mothership" tour for those of you old enough to remember or go!). Or the first CLOAK play party I attended (I did not feel uncomfy at any of the CLOAK munches I visited or presentations I've done for them) but getting my girl naked and playing was a bit different... but I adjusted my attitude to "I'm putting on a SHOW for everyone" and kicked in my exhibitionist circuit and the attention became a positive and uncomfy disappeared.

Hmmmm.... Seems we've hit a bit of a truism... We will only get more people of color to attend white majority BDSM events if we have more people of color attending them so they don't feel so out of place. *sighs* Trails have to blazed by _someone_. Now if we could just find some more kinky Rosa Parkses and Arthur Ashes and Tiger Woodses and Mae Jemisons and Guion Blufords...

And DarkDaddyZ... I hope to catch you at 1763 some time you're visiting Atlanta! Or maybe BlackBeat if I ever get the money. Heck, I'd love to get to SELF one of these years...

(in reply to abda)

Post #: 121

RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/2/2007 7:35:23 AM

BBBTBW

Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

Hmmmm.... Seems we've hit a bit of a truism... We will only get more people of color to attend white majority BDSM events if we have more people of color attending them so they don't feel so out of place. *sighs* Trails have to blazed by _someone_. Now if we could just find some more kinky Rosa Parkses and Arthur Ashes and Tiger Woodses and Mae Jemisons and Guion Blufords...

There are all those role models....they founded organizations like Black Beat....Once people start feeling more comfortable about themselves, they will branch out into other avenues.

quote:

Or maybe BlackBeat if I ever get the money.

Start saving for Black Beat 08 now. The most expensive part is the travel, at least for me.

_____________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 122

RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/2/2007 8:17:40 AM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
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I think it's the height of arrogance to tell people who are participating in lifestyle events trying to attract and target people of color that they should "just get more involved" in organizations that may welcome them, but have no direction or ability to deal with concerns that represent them and their unique interests. It's like invalidating the work done by gay men who may simply elect not to participate in pansexual BDSM. I think one of the needs of sub-groups in a larger group is the right to have space and to identify and notice one another and not have it criticized or belittled.

(in reply to BBBTBW)

Post #: 123

RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/2/2007 8:27:22 AM

PrincessinLatex

Posts: 191
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

I think it's the height of arrogance to tell people who are participating in lifestyle events trying to attract and target people of color that they should "just get more involved" in organizations that may welcome them, but have no direction or ability to deal with concerns that represent them and their unique interests. It's like invalidating the work done by gay men who may simply elect not to participate in pansexual BDSM. I think one of the needs of sub-groups in a larger group is the right to have space and to identify and notice one another and not have it criticized or belittled.

I honestly thank you for this. It's nice to know that there *are* people who understand the unique circumstances faced by individuals who are not the "majority."

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(in reply to Grlwithboy)

Post #: 124

RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/2/2007 9:23:27 AM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessinLatex

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

I think it's the height of arrogance to tell people who are participating in lifestyle events trying to attract and target people of color that they should "just get more involved" in organizations that may welcome them, but have no direction or ability to deal with concerns that represent them and their unique interests. It's like invalidating the work done by gay men who may simply elect not to participate in pansexual BDSM. I think one of the needs of sub-groups in a larger group is the right to have space and to identify and notice one another and not have it criticized or belittled.

I honestly thank you for this. It's nice to know that there *are* people who understand the unique circumstances faced by individuals who are not the "majority."

Thank you, that is kind of you. I try to have a clue. :) - it puts me on good terms with some great people who happen not to look like me and whose perspectives check mine and enhance mine. It has sincerely enhanced my view of the world to listen to people and try and imagine where they're coming from and not get defensive. "Why won't they come to our meeeetings?" is not the same as asking "what do you feel you need?" I can't say I always had a clue, and that I didn't pass through the "but why won't they come to our meeetings?" stage of good intentions, either - I really am grateful to the people who weren't afraid to confront me and make me feel a little uncomfortable and re-think it all. And I'm sure I'll re-think it again, because I value respecting other people.

I also find myself kind of inherently uncomfortable at events where there are no or like, two, people of color. I grew up in NYC, it's just bizzaro to my personal landscape.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 8/2/2007 9:40:19 AM >

(in reply to PrincessinLatex)

Post #: 125

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/2/2007 4:18:45 PM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Dare I ask what a gravitron is?

Hello LaTigresse. Uh ... beats me, but gravitons are gravity particles. RL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graviton

Edit: added reference

< Message edited by robertolapiedra -- 8/2/2007 4:23:10 PM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 126

RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/2/2007 7:21:43 PM

DarkDaddyZ

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

Being a minority can be an uncomfortable experience... I know from some of my own experiences.... Like the first Parliament concert I went to (the "Mothership" tour for those of you old enough to remember or go!). Or the first CLOAK play party I attended (I did not feel uncomfy at any of the CLOAK munches I visited or presentations I've done for them) but getting my girl naked and playing was a bit different... but I adjusted my attitude to "I'm putting on a SHOW for everyone" and kicked in my exhibitionist circuit and the attention became a positive and uncomfy disappeared.

Hmmmm.... Seems we've hit a bit of a truism... We will only get more people of color to attend white majority BDSM events if we have more people of color attending them so they don't feel so out of place. *sighs* Trails have to blazed by _someone_. Now if we could just find some more kinky Rosa Parkses and Arthur Ashes and Tiger Woodses and Mae Jemisons and Guion Blufords...

And DarkDaddyZ... I hope to catch you at 1763 some time you're visiting Atlanta! Or maybe BlackBeat if I ever get the money. Heck, I'd love to get to SELF one of these years...

It's good to see SELF is still going on and I always plan to stop by 1763 when I'm back home but when you're working in clubs, you know how it is, though I really want to get by and see it, I heard it's got great energy, but it's not the same place as the old PEP house is it since MARTA bought all of that up?

P-Funker too

Z-

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 127

RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/20/2007 10:25:46 AM

DarkDaddyZ

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
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I brought this back out to apologize to so many of you as I had planned to travel to DC for BlackBeat but I had a family issue in Atlanta I had to take care of and you gotta do what you gotta do. I am sure it was fantastic! I leave back for California in a few hours. Hopefully some of you will be in San Francisco for Folsom or maybe I'll see you in the ATL or NYC :)

Have a good week!
Z-

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to abda)

Post #: 128

RE: More minorities in the lifestyle - 8/22/2007 6:30:38 AM

BBBTBW

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Joined: 5/21/2004
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I was wondering what happened to you, I was looking for you there. Oh well, perhaps next year. Black Beat was AMAZING as I am sure you know. Lots of great workshops and presentations and the 2 days at the Crucible were GREAT to say the least. I learned quite a bit about a few different things. I have gained an affinity for fire play....what a beautiful art.

I hope all is well with the fam and that you will be there next year.

For all of you that feel that Black Beat is only for Black People. Two of the most amazing single tail demonstrations involved White Males and some very red asse(t)s. I call it POETRY.

www.blackbeatinc.org

< Message edited by BBBTBW -- 8/22/2007 6:40:50 AM >

_____________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)

Post #: 129

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/22/2007 10:59:09 AM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff
Having come up in the South, in the 60's, I'm not about to say I'm anything approaching color-blind. But inter-racial play certainly creates it's own interesting dynamics, fer sure. My first slave was Native American. My second was a latina., my janey is of Native American extraction too.

And I've learned from some of the best in the scene, Lady D & Master Hines from Atlanta, Rorie, Lady A and Lady Silverfoxx from Charlotte, LordScorpion from Elizabethtown, vi Johnson, Sir DonTre', Master Regi- from here in Columbia ... and they just happen to be members of various minority ethnic groupings. I didn't ask or care about the pigment of their skin, just their skills and attitude. I've been blessed by their friendship and their wisdom, one and all.

I was born and raised in California. It's amazing how "color blind" that makes you. I know a number of the folks you mentioned, and it never occurred to me to put any of these folks into a specific mental category labelled "black" or "minority". I categorize them in my mind primarily by their names and personalities, so re-organizing my mental files by race would require thinking about each person individually. Race is pretty far down on the list of things I notice about someone, so pondering the question of "how many minorities do I know in the lifestyle" is mentally the same process as thinking about "how many people do I know in the lifestyle who wear blue jeans." I can pull out that information from the memory files if I think about it, but it's filed so far down in the list of details I remember about people that I have to think about each person before I can access it.

Rorie did a class at my local Munch this weekend. It was a good class. Rorie is amazing at what he does and I love the canes I got from him last year. I was reading this thread about minorities in the lifestyle, and until I got to your post, it literally never crossed my mind to think "Oh yeah, the guy doing the caning demo this weekend was Black." In my brain he's filed under "Rorie, skilled cane maker and BDSM presenter", and the "he's Black" information is buried so far down in the list of other details I remember about him that it's not on automatic access. Doing a mental sweep for "Who do I know in the lifestyle who makes really good canes" will instantly come up with Rorie. Doing the same kind of fishing around in my brain for "Who do I know in the lifestyle who is not white" will take a lot longer and will also stand a pretty good chance of missing a lot of people.

If somebody had asked me to name all the minority people I knew in the lifestyle before I read your post, the chances are quite good that I would have missed a lot of those names, including Rorie, despite the fact that I saw him this weekend. It's not that I don't notice what color someone is, it's more that I file that detail in memory below other details that are more relevant to me. If I have enough of those details filed, the less important stuff drops to the bottom of the list and is hard to access unless I pull out the entire file and think about that person as an individual.

That's the best description I can give of what it's like to grow up "color blind" and honestly not notice (or more accurately, not immediately remember) someone's race. From my perspective it's hard to understand why it matters one way or another what color someone's skin is or what the shape of their eyes are. I'm unclear on why we should specifically encourage any particular racial or ethnic group in the lifestyle. I certainly think it's very important not to discourage anyone based on race, gender or sexual orientation, or make them feel unwelcome. But people are people, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to treat people differently on the basis of race - even if that difference is supposed to be a positive one.

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 130

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/22/2007 11:09:29 AM

Hisbellaluna

Posts: 127
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

lol...Najak...you gave me some very good food for thought...i can only think of one guy thats "not white" but i am 99% sure there are lots more and then i look down at my hands and go, oh yea and then theres me...the only reason i remember this one guy is he is forever running around in g-strings or jock-straps or other equally little clothing and its always very remarkable that he has no tan lines...and he's a very yummy color allllllll over and i want to taste him to see if he tastes as good as he looks...but i am pretty sure he swings more to dangly bits than pink bits....oh well...sighs...wonders if he's gonna be in dallas at the end of sept.....hmmmm he's so gropeable...

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Formerly known as chellekitty...

Do not be like servants who serve their masters expecting to receive a reward; be rather like servants who serve their master unconditionally, with no thought of reward. --Antigonus of Sokho

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

Post #: 131

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/22/2007 11:19:53 AM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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I am glad I am not the only person that just plain forgets about race with people I know. Naja said it better but, I just had to chime in my $2 worth. I know that I have to have sort of awareness when I first meet a person but it just sort of disappears.

Something that has bugged me about a few people I know personally, that claim to not be racist or sexist. When talking to them and they are talking about.....ohhhhh, maybe someone they work with. They cannot help but mention their race if they are not white, or if it is a woman, how smart, tough, whatever....she is. Especially if it is a woman with a higher rank within the company. Or something similar if it is a gay guy, something about him being gay but.......whatever. Here is my peeve with it. If this person is discussing a white guy, it's not that fat bald white guy. Nothing about, he's straight, or he is really smart, or whatever. So, why bring up that stuff about anyone? How does it matter? To me, it is just a far more subtle and PC form of predjudism.

Sorry for the hijack of sorts.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/22/2007 11:20:26 AM >

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 132

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/22/2007 11:33:37 AM

Hisbellaluna

Posts: 127
Joined: 8/13/2007
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the one that gets me is when i refer to someone by their gender and someone feels it necessary to let me know their biological arangement of chromosomes...yep, i know he was born a she, but he gets really annoyed when you say yes Ma'am...

_____________________________

Formerly known as chellekitty...

Do not be like servants who serve their masters expecting to receive a reward; be rather like servants who serve their master unconditionally, with no thought of reward. --Antigonus of Sokho

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 133

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/22/2007 2:42:03 PM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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Yeah, that bugs me too.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Hisbellaluna)

Post #: 134

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/22/2007 2:48:26 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

Bitch...

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 135

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/23/2007 8:55:42 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Awww thank you! And don't you forget it buster!!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 136

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/23/2007 9:16:39 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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We live in a country where political correctness has gone somewhat awry....I run with a fairly diverse crowd...It usually is just easier and quicker when trying to bring a person to light in a conversation to describe ther ethnicity....If I'm hanging out with one of my friends regardless of ethnicity ( but since the topic always seems to boil down to black and white we will assume that my friend is black) this is how our conversation would go I would say, "You know that guy, John, who hangs out down by so and so...I saw him the other day." My friend might say, "Who?" I would continue on, "He's about six feet tall, medium build, nice guy. Always talks about his place down in Florida." My friend who is black might say..."Oh you mean that black dude." ...I would respond..."Yeah, that's him."

Sometimes it is just easier to say that white guy or fillipino or whatever...It depends on what is in your heart....It often is just quicker to incorporate the ethnicity of the person you are eluding to into the discussion...It's really no big fucking deal.

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Post #: 137

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/23/2007 10:32:07 AM

Najakcharmer

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Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Sometimes it is just easier to say that white guy or fillipino or whatever...It depends on what is in your heart....It often is just quicker to incorporate the ethnicity of the person you are eluding to into the discussion...It's really no big fucking deal.

Sure, and if I was thinking about a specific person in my head to describe them to someone else, that would mean I was pulling out my entire mental file on that person including their visual image. In that case, their appearance and ethnicity would be right in front of my mind for easy access, and I would immediately use it in a description of them. It would be pretty stupid not to use it since it makes for a clear visual. I don't have a problem talking about what race someone is, especially if I'm trying to describe them so that someone else will know who the hell I'm talking about.

What I'm saying is that unless I pull out the entire mental file on a specific individual, I can't easily categorize people in my head by ethnicity. I can immediately come up with ethnicity if I think about a specific person I know. What I can't easily do is cross-reference all the people in my head by ethnicity, because I don't store that particular bit of information high enough in my mental database to be able to use it that way. A comparable mental task for me would be to list all the people I know in the scene whom I remembered wearing blue jeans. I could do it, but I would have to sift through a lot of thoughts and memories about individual people to get there. If you said the name of a specific person, I could think about them and tell you whether my mental image of them included jeans or not.

If I was a denim fetishist, I would store that piece of information much more highly in my mental database tree, and would be able to use it as a fast cross-reference. I don't attach any personal importance to whether someone wears jeans or not, so as a result I would find it difficult to quickly go through my mental files and come up with the names of everyone who matched that criteria.

The end result is that unless I mentally pull up *everything* I know about a person including a clear visual image, it's quite possible that I'm literally not going to think about or fully remember what race they are. I'd have to be focusing on the physical description of a specific person or have a clear visual image of them in my mind before that bit of information even found its way to the front of my brain.

I grew up in a huge ethnic melting pot, and what race somebody was had pretty much zero relevance to my interaction with them. There were at least eight or ten different ethnicities in my average school group of twenty or thirty, so I grew up thinking of ethnic appearance as an individual quirk. As a result, information about someone's race is filed in my mental database under "details of visual appearance" along with the clothes they wear and how their hair looks.

This is definitely not a diatribe about political correctness or a claim to have the One True Way of thinking about race. It's just a straight-up dissection of how a "color blind" brain files information about racial characteristics. Eg, not very well.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 138

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/23/2007 11:11:55 AM

Joyful007

Posts: 17
Joined: 8/5/2007
Status: offline

I agree there are not many minorities in the lifestyle. That being said the minority friends we have in the lifestlye don't exactly find that a big drawback. Quite the contrary ,in fact, they find they are quite popular and being a little different from anyone is quite intriguing and exotic to many.

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 139

RE: More minorities in the lifstyle - 8/23/2007 11:25:24 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

I admit i have that problem when i am talking to customer service i get someone name chaniqua or teaniqua or something. and if comes to playing a bill they will give me no slack what so ever. or when i am trying to get the best deal i can

(in reply to Joyful007)

Post #: 140

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