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RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:12:43 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LthrMaam

First, none of you have any idea who the girl is. She is some anonomous person - one of hundreds, possibly thousands on this site. Her name and any personal details have been removed from the post.

It doesn't matter that it's anonymous. The TOS of this forum say that you can't post private correspondence on the boards. And that rule even applies to irritated Dominants.

quote:

What I was *attempting* to voice is that I (and most Dominants I've known) do not like to be told what to do by a submissive. It is bad form. In this instance I attempted to address this politely - even said I wished the criticism to be constructive. The hope was to give the girl something - a hint of proper manners and/or polish.

She's not your submissive and until such time that she consents to submit to you, she is your equal.

quote:

In my opinion anyone interested in submission rather than just sex would have reacted differently.

You're entitled to your opinion. You're not entitled to force that opinion onto others.

quote:

The suggestion that polishing her manners equates to being a mindless bimbo is a clear indication that she has no clue about submission (certainly by *my* definition)!

Giving direction to a person that isn't your submissive is inappropriate in my opinion. And fact of the matter is, that you have no idea what her definition of submission is. You're making an assumption. I probably would have to you to take a flying leap, as well. Simply because you have labeled yourself as Dominant doesn't mean that every submissive has to follow your definition of submission.

quote:

If the dominants of this forum wish to continue to accept correspondence from submissives that appears to be bossy, have at it.

Yes, God forbid, we treat others that don't belong to us as equals. <shudder>

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 21

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:13:00 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

The original correspondence was not posted only fragments from it that were hand picked to suit the ops case. To make a judgment I would have to read her email in full. Many above have been critical of the initiator of this thread for posting private correspondence but none of us know who this girl was and as I said only fragments of it were used. I agree it was largely an advert as to what the op expects and this is best dealt with in journals and her profile. I think the point she was making is that written communication from a potential guest is important in making a good impression and that she makes the demands not the girl. The sex related header was of little relevance to the thread in general but merely used to grab peoples attention.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 22

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:20:21 AM

SexyRed

Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I think the point she was making is that written communication from a potential guest is important in making a good impression and that she makes the demands not the girl.

As others have stated, the "girl" is not her submissive therefore she is just another equal person and can respond in any way she sees fit. The girl can also make her own demands of what she is expecting from a Dom. Obviously this what not a good fit, so why publish it?

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 23

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:26:57 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I think the point she was making is that written communication from a potential guest is important in making a good impression and that she makes the demands not the girl.

As others have stated, the "girl" is not her submissive therefore she is just another equal person and can respond in any way she sees fit. The girl can also make her own demands of what she is expecting from a Dom. Obviously this what not a good fit, so why publish it?

For me it the age old argument of is respect earned or given? To an extent I give all people respect and don't feel the need to capitalise words such as ‘NOT’ making it appear that the other person is half blind and can only read capital letters.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to SexyRed)

Post #: 24

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:34:06 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

I guess the op was feeling bad that such a long email got such a short reply.

I don't know I only came here for the keyword 'sex' and that was a lie but the term 'fuckhole' was promising.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 25

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:39:57 AM

charlotte12

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LthrMaam

And I've saved the criticism for last. Constructive criticism, I hope. Throughout your e-mail were statements that reflected something of a 'bossy' tone. For example, "Let me know what you desire"; and "Get back to me when I can contact you"

I understand it is most likely you meant no disrespect. However, the tone came across as 'bossy' - as if giving orders. This makes me cringe. In a submissive, whether it is just a play date or someone petitioning my collar, I require a degree of humility, polite manners, and obeisance. Please read the following paragraph. It is my household credo (posted in the dining room and memorized by anyone wishing to petition my collar). It should give you an idea of the type of perspective I seek:

You represent yourself, anyone who trains or has trained you, the Dominant you attend or serve, the community you are included in, and this Household. Your respect for these should dictate your behavior and indicate what is expected of you publicly and privately. Please give care to manners, grace, appearance, presentation and attendance, and treat others with the respect that befits station and/or how you would wish to be treated.

So, <<Name Removed>>, in order for you and me to go in a forward direction, I will require a bit of polish on the way you address me (and/or anyone else I witness, hear of, or know about). The D/s dynamic is an important part of 'what we do' and my D/s bubble can easily be burst by a statement from a submissive that sounds like she is giving me (or anyone) an order. I find good manners and well chosen words far more enticing than a nude photo [which was included in the initial correspondence].

I'll leave you with this instruction: please rephrase your request (Get back to me when I can contact you) into something that might compel me to respond with what you want or need. We can go from there . . .

Ms. E

My constructive criticism for you would be to figure out why your D/s bubble is burst when someone says "Let me know what you desire". I really don't see anything bossy in the things she said. She requested to know your desire and a time that would be convenient for you to contact her.

I tend to keep things casual in initial conversations because my submission is inspired by the person, not the simple fact that they are Dominant. That said i understand that some people wish to engage in the D/s dynamic from the very beginning but i will say that those are usually the people who end being the ones who "just want sex". At least that's been my experience (limited as it may be).

I'm not seeking a submissive...hehe..but if i was i personally would be most impressed with those who do not feel submission means submitting to everyone. I think good manners and well chosen words are good qualities in anyone, submissive or Dominant. Beyond that i will find someone i'm compatible with and take it from there.

_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 26

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:56:02 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

For me it the age old argument of is respect earned or given?

There's a difference between courtesy and respect. Courtesy I give to everyone until they show that they don't deserve it. Respect I give to those that have earned it.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 27

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:58:25 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

In a dictionary there is no such distinction but I understand your point.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 28

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:58:51 AM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LthrMaam

Wow do I feel put in a corner! I didn't realize I was signing up to be beaten up. First, none of you have any idea who the girl is. She is some anonomous person - one of hundreds, possibly thousands on this site. Her name and any personal details have been removed from the post. Besides her one-line response and 15 words of quote, the text I posted was my composition - not hers. So pardon me, but I don't see how posting this is considered so very inappropriate.

What I was *attempting* to voice is that I (and most Dominants I've known) do not like to be told what to do by a submissive. It is bad form. In this instance I attempted to address this politely - even said I wished the criticism to be constructive. The hope was to give the girl something - a hint of proper manners and/or polish. Something that she could take with her - something that would benefit her no matter who she chooses to correspond with. In my opinion anyone interested in submission rather than just sex would have reacted differently. The suggestion that polishing her manners equates to being a mindless bimbo is a clear indication that she has no clue about submission (certainly by *my* definition)!

I apologize for "subjecting" you folks to my thoughts and peeves. It's quickly obvious they are invalid and not understood in this particular forum. Thank you for being polite (or in some cases almost polite) in your criticism. Your thoughts are valid and being considered. Fear not, I'll leave you all to your own devices and flavor of D/s. If the dominants of this forum wish to continue to accept correspondence from submissives that appears to be bossy, have at it. It's quite clear that I do not belong here. I'll not waste any more of your time!

Truly,

Ms. E

P.S. LadyAlbatross, thank you for the *constructive* note! Much appreciated!

Translation: I need validation and you all are meanies because you won't give it to me. I'm taking my toys and going home!

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 29

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 10:58:56 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

Interesting. I am not a dominant but if that is all it takes to get you out of a dominant mind space I would have you flipped over in a heartbeat. *shakes head*.
Doesn't sound to me like your prospect was looking for sex. But if that is what you have to believe to get over being summerarily dismissed by someone who is probably also amused by your request, go for it.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: LthrMaam
The D/s dynamic is an important part of 'what we do' and my D/s bubble can easily be burst by a statement from a submissive that sounds like she is giving me (or anyone) an order. I find good manners and well chosen words far more enticing than a nude photo [which was included in the initial correspondence].

Ms. E

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 30

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:00:43 AM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LthrMaam

Wow do I feel put in a corner! I didn't realize I was signing up to be beaten up. First, none of you have any idea who the girl is. She is some anonomous person - one of hundreds, possibly thousands on this site. Her name and any personal details have been removed from the post. Besides her one-line response and 15 words of quote, the text I posted was my composition - not hers. So pardon me, but I don't see how posting this is considered so very inappropriate.

What I was *attempting* to voice is that I (and most Dominants I've known) do not like to be told what to do by a submissive. It is bad form. In this instance I attempted to address this politely - even said I wished the criticism to be constructive. The hope was to give the girl something - a hint of proper manners and/or polish. Something that she could take with her - something that would benefit her no matter who she chooses to correspond with. In my opinion anyone interested in submission rather than just sex would have reacted differently. The suggestion that polishing her manners equates to being a mindless bimbo is a clear indication that she has no clue about submission (certainly by *my* definition)!

I apologize for "subjecting" you folks to my thoughts and peeves. It's quickly obvious they are invalid and not understood in this particular forum. Thank you for being polite (or in some cases almost polite) in your criticism. Your thoughts are valid and being considered. Fear not, I'll leave you all to your own devices and flavor of D/s. If the dominants of this forum wish to continue to accept correspondence from submissives that appears to be bossy, have at it. It's quite clear that I do not belong here. I'll not waste any more of your time!

Truly,

Ms. E

P.S. LadyAlbatross, thank you for the *constructive* note! Much appreciated!

I personally think you received many a good view point on the subject. Maybe not couched in the respectful tones that you require, but constructive nonetheless. Possibly you came on here expecting everyone to jump on the bandwagon and give you a big hurrah!..but that would be a total fantasy scenerio..Remember your ideas of what is required of a submissive may not gel with what another Dominant requires...your idea of what constitutes respectful may yet again not gel with another Dominants idea of respectful..Are you going to be the Dominant of Dominants and tell them that they are accepting or doing it wrong? As many have stated and I will reiterate..Deal only with your own submissive's behavior and actions. I am pretty sure that is what training is all about ...leave the other submissives to the devices of their own Masters...or unclaimed submissives to the their own behaviors....Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 31

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:05:11 AM

shyinini

Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline

I am going to continue, in my own way, that which FullCircle started.
I have read ms E's email several times. I understand what she wrote.
I also have read and re-read her profile.
She is very specific in whom she wants correspondence with. Becasue as a dominant, she can make those kinds of expectations from the beginning.
I do understand the argument the girl in question was not her property and thus didnt have to reply as a "submissive." But if that girl had really read and understood, as in comprehended, the tone, message and specific requirements that Ms. E's profile wants in a girl, she would have responded to her in such fashion.
Obviously the girl in question, didnt understand what responding to Ms E would, in fact, hold her to the expectations already stated in Ms E's profile.

On to my expereince.... this email, without the constructive criticism at the end, is pretty much what Sir first wrote to me. His profile was much briefer than Ms E's and he had to beat the chaff from the wheat as early as possible.
If Sir had given me contructive criticism in how I responded, I would have been much more respectful than said girl. Why? cause the profile has already told me, she, Ms E, would not stand for some things.

I also do not feel Ms E's letter was bossy or arrogant. Why do peeps here have to judge so much? Since when it is against TOS to post an unidentifiable email? Others do it!
I also do not feel that Ms E's post, her very first post, was an advertisement.
Others can rant.. Why not her? She has some ligitamate issues in my POV.
How do you all know that she is not a dominant with excellent advice and ligimate concerns for this side of the website??

Nope...you all know how to selectively carve up folk and send them on their way !!

And I agree...are subs and doms here for sex or for D/s??
If some doms/subs are here to get banged, then say it in a way that evidences this.
If some are here for something more long lasting than a bang... say it.
When I first came to this site in 2004, I wrote...I am here to explore but also to find someone for a relationship. That means...yes I'll bottom for a while and see where I am...but If one of the tops seems to be a good fit, maybe.....

Ok my rant is over. My skin is thicker today.

Sir's cum sucking slut

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.

(in reply to charlotte12)

Post #: 32

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:06:22 AM

DarkDaddyZ

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline

LthrMaam said:

quote:

What I was *attempting* to voice is that I (and most Dominants I've known) do not like to be told what to do by a submissive. It is bad form. In this instance I attempted to address this politely - even said I wished the criticism to be constructive. The hope was to give the girl something - a hint of proper manners and/or polish.

Oside Girl said: She's not your submissive and until such time that she consents to submit to you, she is your equal.

Slightly off topic but I wouldn't want to exchange power with anyone who wasn't my equal.

This thread just shows me that we all have our various interests, opinions, philosophies and style when it comes to BDSM.

That's why I love the term Leathersex, it incorporates all I get from "BDSM" so thanks Joseph for that term

< Message edited by DarkDaddyZ -- 7/28/2007 11:08:21 AM >

_____________________________

"Flirting is part of the job description." DJ Jesus (Lucy Daughter Of The Devil)

Vanilla Official Music Page http://www.myspace.com/djzulu

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 33

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:06:28 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Just because someone is submissive does not make them your submissive. If that email had shown up in my inbox, my Lord would most likely give me permission to be as snarky as I wanted to. Until she agrees to be your submissive, I think it improper to "instruct" her on how she is supposed to behave. You can state your preferences, what pleases you and see if she decides to comply, but instructing her on how she should act before she has consented to follow your orders does not look so good for you.

Knight's Kyra

*edited to add a "not"; it just changes the whole meaning...

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 7/28/2007 11:10:34 AM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 34

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:12:55 AM

imthatacheyouhav

Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LthrMaam

snip
I absolutely *HATE* it when I waste my time and thoughtful response on someone who has *NO CLUE* and worse, in this instance, is unwilling to consider she has anything to learn!!!!

Thank you for enduring my rant! I feel better now. Ms. E

id imagine the submissive may be saying the same thing about you......so the 2 of you arent a match.......that makes neither of you clueless or wrong, just not a match......i see nothing wrong with the way she indicated for you to get back to her......in my mind it was giving you some power-as in you contact me when its good for you......

just my 2 cents-good luck finding what you seek...

Excellent point...two people can indeed disagree without either of them necessarily being wrong.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

Post #: 35

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:20:47 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

Herein lies a large part of the problem.....

my D/s bubble can easily be burst

Stop living in one.

At least you got a response, since soooo many doms & dommes complain about being ignored when they write a long diatribe. A large percentage here would have just ignored and blocked. And someone might have even started a thread about that "domme who thought she already owned me, hahahaha"

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

Post #: 36

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:24:22 AM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

Has anyone checked that the phrase “Am NOT the mindless bimbo you want. Good luck in your search.” Isn’t a bulk response given via the bulk response button? It could all be a simple misunderstanding me thinks.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 37

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:28:37 AM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

If I may interjet my two cents worth? From what I have read from all responses, can't really see you've been placed into a corner. Granted we do not know this girl and may never will. From reading over your OP of the letter, I can't see how she was being bossy, bratty, defiant, or any other term that may be appropiate. have you considered that the girl was feeling tentative which had a direct influence on how she worded her letter? Not everyone is profficient in appropiately wording a letter to a Dom/Master/Mistress. Yes, we subbies will make small errors in the proper ettiquette and protocol when approaching another, I'm guilty of that myself.
    What seems to be mispaced among many is finding the common definition of submission which is acceptable between the two people concerned. My idea of submission isn't the same as LA"s nor is it the same as Aqua's, that is no fault of mine nor is it their fault either.
   Keep in mind that thoughts and peeves are valid to the the person giving them, saying differently only negates the validity of the person. Don't underestimate the people on these forums, we are more understanding than what you give us credit for. Keep in mind that the only person a submissive needs, wants and desires to act appropiately is to the Dom who "owns" them. If a sub approached me in a seemingly bossy manner and I decide to claim them, that is when I will take action to correct their lack of manners and teach them the type of respect I desire from them towards myself.
    I don't need to be here either, yet it's not a waste of my time! Frankly I'd rather be at my Sir's feet with my boy beside me.

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 38

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:47:54 AM

CutieMouse

Posts: 81
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LthrMaam

What I was *attempting* to voice is that I (and most Dominants I've known) do not like to be told what to do by a submissive. It is bad form. In this instance I attempted to address this politely - even said I wished the criticism to be constructive. The hope was to give the girl something - a hint of proper manners and/or polish. Something that she could take with her - something that would benefit her no matter who she chooses to correspond with. In my opinion anyone interested in submission rather than just sex would have reacted differently. The suggestion that polishing her manners equates to being a mindless bimbo is a clear indication that she has no clue about submission (certainly by *my* definition)!

Truly,

Ms. E

Personally, I felt your letter was well thought out, but you hit lecture-mode with regards to equating "let me know when I can get back to you" with bossy. It is quite common in my daily life (business and social) to say things like "I wish to set up a meeting at your earliest conveniece" or "It would be lovely to meet for coffee; please let me know when you are available, so I may clear my schedule." I fail to see anything "bossy" about such statements; instead I view them as a gracious manner of showing interest/desire to correspond further.

As for opportunities to teach good manners, that occurs regardless of dominant or submissive "status." For instance, I do not take kindly to lectures (and a few other things) from those who don't know me well enough to determine if it is needed; those who have the misfortune of wandering down that path, have their error pointed out to them in a polite (but blunt) response. Actually, if one has a decent sense of humor, it can be entertaining to watch "dominant" men's brains bleed out their ears as they spout off volcanic strings of cuss words, in response to a obsessivly polite and grammatically correct "smack down" for behaving in an overly familiar/rude manner... Bonus points are awarded if the other party loses their temper in less than 3 emails, while you remain calm.

(suggested in the most submissive manner possible, of course...)

(in reply to LthrMaam)

Post #: 39

RE: Are they here for D/s or for sex? - 7/28/2007 11:50:05 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CutieMouse

Actually, if one has a decent sense of humor, it can be entertaining to watch "dominant" men's brains bleed out their ears as they spout off volcanic strings of cuss words, in response to a obsessivly polite and grammatically correct "smack down" for behaving in an overly familiar/rude manner... Bonus points are awarded if the other party loses their temper in less than 3 emails, while you remain calm. (suggested in the most submissive manner possible, of course...)

Oooo.... I wonder if Valyraen would let me put up a scoreboard next to the computer.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CutieMouse)

Post #: 40

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