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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 10:37:10 AM   
SnugasaBug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

ok, let's look at that theory for a second

suppose somone with MD has great amounts of faith, prays to someday be normal like everyone else, be able to ditch their chair and walk again, be able to use their muscles just like everyone else does. they pray for this...how many people have you heard of that has been granted this prayer?



You misunderstand the meaning of the word prayer. Prayer, to me, means a channel of communication with my higher power. It doesn't mean He always answers with a Yes. 
Snug

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 10:40:40 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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i had a response to this, but it would have started a whole new line of flaming...so i changed my mind and decided not to post it here.

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 10:43:06 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

By the way micheal, have you tried praying to Cthulhu?



Nyarlathotep (-:

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 10:44:47 AM   
SnugasaBug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Don't forget, they have a hole in the top of Texas Stadium for a reason.......


To let the gas out ?

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 10:51:58 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1172780/mpage_1/key_bugfuck/tm.htm#1173129



The bugfuck thread was about the loony right Xstian for Israel Summit. Yet, you chose to be offended by it: so, do you believe in the same things the bugfucks do? I think we should be told, because it would clarify a lot of things  (such as the fact that you don't come running to the defense of any other religious freedom than your own - why is that?).

It's your choice to play the part of the victim, but it's tedious. Jenny (camille) is far kinder than I am (you know this already), and she made her point to you in the most diplomatic of fashions. It seems as though you're feeling rather put upon. I wonder why?





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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 10:55:49 AM   
SnugasaBug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife


It seems as though if prayer worked, the profession of physician would never have been created. Droughts would not happen in farming communities because the group prayers held there would generate rain. Limbs would regrow through undeniably miraculous processes, candlelight vigils held for missing children would always produce the children home alive and unharmed. The queen of England would be immortal thanks to the nationwide prayers of " God save the Queen! ".
Owner of slave L

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And your submissive, always gets what she wants too??, Of all people in the world, you would think our community would be more understanding and tolerant of the word no.
(as in prayers being answered...but with a no for an answer. I think we tend to not hear our prayers answered with a yes, and think they were never heard)
Snug

< Message edited by SnugasaBug -- 7/30/2007 11:02:02 AM >

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 11:04:43 AM   
NorthernGent


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Luci, in terms of having to justify your opinion.....not if you don't want to, but if you join a discussion on prayer/god, then it's fair to say you're going to be asked to provide some reason to support your opinions. Your only piece of supporting reason (unless I've missed something) is that I can't prove there's not a god. Well, if I told you a dinosaur is busy eating a cow on my front lawn, would this be sufficient to convince you it is reality?

In terms of your opinions on god making a dent, my mum has defined herself as a christian throughout my lifetime, and she hasn't made any impression whatsoever, so there's not much chance of conversion at this late stage in the day :-)

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 11:06:06 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

Not upset at all.  I just don't understand how anyone feels I'm somehow wrong for stating my own beliefs and maintaining that those who don't believe them, should at least respect them and not ridicule and mock the God and religion that's sacred to me.  Most don't but some do.  


.....Luci, you're taking flak for being a christian, possibly because christians have given out so much flak. The Danish cartoons of Mohammed were defended as a freedom of speech thing by christians. However they 'ridicule and mock the God and religion that's sacred to' many people. i don;t think you'd defend that double standard, but while so many christians do then the whole faith is tainted with hypocrisy.... just as much in error as Islam is currently tainted wrongly with terrorism.


Philosophy, isn't it good  to know that all it takes to get muslims going is some cartoons!
And that some sects don't like other sects.
I pray for my enemies too!
"Dear Big Guy, ...........

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 11:12:34 AM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
The bugfuck thread was about the loony right Xstian for Israel Summit. Yet, you chose to be offended by it

If you go to that thread and you read my response to you, I specifically said I was NOT offended by you posting it.  I was offended by what some of the Christian Right are doing in it.  Of course I am.  They are doing just what you and others said:  hiding behind their beliefs to fleece congregations and using their "extreme" beliefs to attempt to influence polititcs in the middle east.  I find that just as wrong as you do.  That was made very clear in my response there.  End of that issue.
quote:

so, do you believe in the same things the bugfucks do? I think we should be told, because it would clarify a lot of things

First of all, I'm not going to refer to anyone as "bugfucks."  Please show some maturity.  What I believe is long and complex and I'm not going to waste my energy even beginning to explain it for your laughs and ridicule.  You have no "right" to know nor would it clarify anything in your mind.  However, I will restate what I have already written before.  I do NOT support what far right extremists do as far as efforts to "bring on" Armageddon.  I do NOT believe in the concept of a "secret" rapture where believers will be silently removed from Earth.  And, most of all, I do not support our current administration using Christianity to hide behind while doing things that are absolutely anti-Scriptural.  So, no, I do not believe as the so-called "bugfucks" do in any of those instances.
quote:

you don't come running to the defense of any other religious freedom than your own - why is that?)

That's an absolute lie and you know it.  If I went through and counted the number of times I have said that it's not right to degrade, mock, stifle ANY religious or political beliefs, the numbers would be in triple digits.  Do you even read my posts or just automatically jump into attack mode?  For instance, back on the "bugfuck" thread, I made a post saying the video was interesting and commenting on it.  You assumed I was "offended" and rattled off some snipey response.  I posted again, being very polite, thanking you for posting the video and saying it was very informative.  Never heard another word out of you there.  No, not until another opportunity to jump in with both barrels in attempts to mock again.  Your methods are showing 
quote:

It's your choice to play the part of the victim, but it's tedious

I have never played the victim role.  I don't know where you get such a fantasy.  All I have done is explain over and over and over why I have the same right as you do to speak my mind.  It's soooooo tedious when I do it but soooooooo enlightening when you do it, aye?
quote:

 Jenny (camille) is far kinder than I am (you know this already)

I don't know either one of you to be honest.  I didn't see her post as either kind or unkind.  She said some things that I didn't find factual or fitting pertaining to me and I responded to them politely and attempted to answer her questions.  Maybe it did no good, maybe it did.  Who knows?  I figure if anything I said didn't sit well, she could always ask again or respond.
quote:

and she made her point to you in the most diplomatic of fashions

And I responded to her in the same manner.  I was not rude or condescending to her in any way.  I don't think you actually read the same posts I write.  My exact ending words to her were:  "I'm sorry you can't see my real motivation rather than just seeing me as a defensive paranoid who thinks no one likes me.  That's not the case at all.  Thanks for your reply, camille."  How is that rude when she just spent paragraphs telling me how "hyper defensive" I am and how I have delusions that I'm being attacked and no one likes me?  I'd say, if anything, I was more diplomatic than she was.  Yet, as usual, you only see fault with what I type.
quote:

It seems as though you're feeling rather put upon. I wonder why?

Wonder away, dear, if it gives you something to ponder.  I do not, nor have I ever, felt "put upon" by you or anyone else who cannot manage to hold a civil discourse with me without resorting to cheap shots and name calling.  That "turn the other cheek" comment last night?  That was classic

I'm finished nit-picking back and forth with you.  You win.  Prayer works and God is real but I'm going to do as you demanded and "shut up" about it because this ... ..... is mind-numbing.  Mock and laugh away.  It's so adorable and really shows the depth of your character and intellect.  Thankies for all your scholarly debate here and elsewhere, dear.  Walt Whitman once said "Dismiss what insults your soul."  So, I will.......God bless..........luci    





< Message edited by slaveluci -- 7/30/2007 11:16:07 AM >


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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 11:16:11 AM   
SnugasaBug


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Is it only a "justification", or an honest attempt at finding truth? And what about scientists with beards? Hmmm??


omg I am laughing so hard..

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 11:22:11 AM   
kittinSol


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Prayer, sending out general kind vibes, acting in the hope that the best outcome will occur out of a situation, trying to think positively, meditating, crossing fingers, touching wood... it's all kind, and good, but it's not virtuous (virtue is nothing but vanity, I think the over-virtuous among us show this by lacking so much in humility), and it's nothing to do with God, Dog or Cod.

Better a kind atheist than a bigotted believer.

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 11:23:48 AM   
kittinSol


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Yes dear...

PS: I thought that due to your choice of avatar, you would find my 'turn the other cheek' joke amusing.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 7/30/2007 11:25:10 AM >


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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 3:57:48 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnugasaBug

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Don't forget, they have a hole in the top of Texas Stadium for a reason.......


To let the gas out ?


No, so Brett Favre could look at the sky as he lay on his back.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 4:04:12 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SnugasaBug

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Is it only a "justification", or an honest attempt at finding truth? And what about scientists with beards? Hmmm??


omg I am laughing so hard..


Oh sure, scoff now...... http://www.lechatnoirboutique.com/prodimages/Coffee%20Mug%20-%20Far%20Side%20Rocket%20Scientists.jpg



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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 6:51:02 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Better a kind atheist than a bigotted believer.



To be fair, kittinSol, atheism is as much of a belief system as deism.

One posits the existence of something unprovable, the other posits the non-existence of something unprovable.

To be a bigotted atheist is as logically fallacious as a bigotted Whateverist.

Best to avoid bigotry, keeps the wheels spinning and everything shipshape and Bristol fashion.

Sinergy

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 7:03:19 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Better a kind atheist than a bigotted believer.



To be fair, kittinSol, atheism is as much of a belief system as deism.

One posits the existence of something unprovable, the other posits the non-existence of something unprovable.

To be a bigotted atheist is as logically fallacious as a bigotted Whateverist.

Best to avoid bigotry, keeps the wheels spinning and everything shipshape and Bristol fashion.

Sinergy


Sin, I gotta respectively disagree with you....If you ask an atheist what is in the cup?  He will answer nothing and walk away.....If you ask a believer the same question...They will answer, God....Unfortunately that is just the beginning of the conversation.

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 7:14:14 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Sin, I gotta respectively disagree with you....If you ask an atheist what is in the cup?  He will answer nothing and walk away.....If you ask a believer the same question...They will answer, God....Unfortunately that is just the beginning of the conversation.



Right, and the only thing which can be proven is that the cup has a random assortment of items in gaseous state at whatever the local temperature and pressure is.

It cannot be proven that nothing is in the cup.

It cannot be proven that God is in the cup.

Sinergy

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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 7:35:25 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Better a kind atheist than a bigotted believer.



To be fair, kittinSol, atheism is as much of a belief system as deism.

One posits the existence of something unprovable, the other posits the non-existence of something unprovable.

To be a bigotted atheist is as logically fallacious as a bigotted Whateverist.

Best to avoid bigotry, keeps the wheels spinning and everything shipshape and Bristol fashion.

Sinergy


Well, obviously. But I was comparing kind atheist versus cuntish believer for the sake of digging in the nail of my displeasure in  the few (but vociferous! But vocal!) zealots out there. It was cynical, it was nasty, it was ugly.

It was me.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 7/30/2007 8:13:44 PM >


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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 7:45:19 PM   
Sinergy


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I understand, kittenSol,

I was simply making the comment...

Besides, we like you here.

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Honestly...does prayer REALLY work? - 7/30/2007 8:16:13 PM   
kittinSol


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Ta, babes. Words of support a scaffolding to my heart make (I am Yoda in the 'Which Star Wars Character Are You' test) .

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