RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy

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SusanofO -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:16:14 AM)
Well, I wasn't meaning any disrepsect to any submissives with that observation (truly). They probably didn't negotiate it. This kind of thing is usually part of someone's personality, not a negotiated BDSM activity, IMO. She also said she only recently realized just how much this really bugs her. I don't think she has to be stuck with it. I've heard of people who re-nogotiate things in their relationships on a bi-annual basis or at different times for various reasons. I don't think it is necessarily disrespectful of a submissive to want to do that - a Dom can say "no" (just as a submissive can also walk). I can see where it would not have been discussed in any negotiations. I can see where he might not know it bothers her. Being a Dom (or Master) he doesn't have to do anything about it. And if it means that much to her, she has a right to walk right out the door. But I hope that doesn't happen. Best of luck to the OP. - Susan

BDsbabygirl -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:18:09 AM)
Cyntilating, I am actually quite embarrassed to admit that no, I do not enjoy experiences with my 3rd child as much as I did with my 1st. In fact, by the time she came along, I'd gotten into the habit of just giving a brief "that's nice, hon" if I'd already experienced it before, it was like "yeah, yeah, been there, done that, is old hat" to me. If she did something new, that thrilled me! sobs for children Not saying I lacked enjoyment with my 3rd, it just failed to impress or excite me as much... I really am trying to get beyond this; I have not even slept tonite because I've been on this board, and I'll be meeting with him in about 3 hours...with no sleep, ugh! Why I sacrificed last nite's sleep is because I'm so interested in crossing this hurdle. I no longer feel the need to leave him should this continue (what was I thinking?! I obviously wasn't) but I just don't see myself as being able to enjoy my fantasies, and thus please him, if I know he's done them before. I cannot explain any more why I feel this way. I just want something new and different that I can explore/share/discover! with the man I love. It needn't be constant, but I'd like my fantasies, at least, to be that way... I don't think there's a fear involved in this; it's all about wanting to share something new with someone else for whom it's also new. Just that simple...came4U, I guess you're the only one who's felt that way. Thank you for sharing.

BDsbabygirl -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:32:51 AM)
...and actually, I guess I should have been able to see this coming -- when I was still married, it drove me up a wall if my husband saw a movie he knew I wanted to enjoy together. He wouldn't do it just to do it, but there were a couple of times he'd seen a movie over a friend's house - he'd watch it rather than leave, since he couldn't very well ask them to stop a movie playing in their house - and I couldn't bear to watch it with him because he had already experienced it; knew what the upcoming line was, knew the next joke or plot twist to come, etc, while I didn't, and we didn't get to share that discovery together because he'd already shared it with someone else...

bignipples2share -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:32:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U Feelings of these type of insecurities do not appear/occur overnight. I have always been this way. Probably always will be. That is why I avoid a commitment/relationship thus far (in this realm most likely you will run into men who have had 10 subs and done numerous kinks with them). It is similar to finding out your 'real dad' has another family across town. does he love them more? do those daughters get the cool brand-name Barbies and you get the knock-off cheapos?, Do they get cool clothes and he comes home to you to bring their handmedowns? You either have to stop that thinking somehow, or tell him it is eating you up. Because it isn't fair to anyone being half of a trusting/loving sub/girl to any man/Dom. Give all, or at least try or don't give at all. I gotta comment here. This kinda reminds me of the person who is afraid to touch anyone because they have germs, therefore, they isolate themselves. It's one thing to be happy and content living with just yourself. It's another living with yourself because of your fears of doing anything other than live that way. I sure can't give you the answers on how to fix this, but isolation isn't the answer. Very few germs are gonna kill you. Very few people are going to have a second family across town. And very few men are going to stay in a past that's not right for him. He's going to move forward and do the things he loves, with someone he loves and that could be you. ~Big

BDsbabygirl -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:39:21 AM)
...and actually, I am happy that he's experienced; I'm happy to know that I'm with someone knowledgeable enough to know how to wield a flogger or use shackles or make a rope skirt or drip wax without inadvertantly hurting me, I just don't wanna know the details on how he got that way...nor can I see how he could've possibly said that to reassure me; what, was I supposed to be glad he'd save me from frostbite?

salilus -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:46:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO I just have to say that reading this thread has really brought home to me how MUCH many submissives are conditioned, and-or need to believe that whatever goes "wrong" in a relationship is almost always automatically their fault. You know, it's funny you say that because I've always seen more of the opposite: submissive-type folks blaming their issues and sometimes, all of the relationship problems on the dominant. Quite often, it's all about how abusive he is because he doesn't do what she wants and so on and so forth. quote: If her Dom just changed doing one little thing (mentioning past BDSM experience with other women, and that would only be a minor inconveniece on his part) - then this entire problem might disappear. How on earth does one simply stuff years of experience down and never speak about it? What happens if she needs to talk about her past sexual experiences?? For instance: something that happened to her in the past has caused her to like to dislike something intensely. Her dominant wants to know why... should she lie? For heaven sakes, she's not 16 and I'm guessing he isn't either - they have pasts! Pasts. Things that caused growth and shaped who they are today. None of it is bad or wrong, save for the timing in this one situation.

bignipples2share -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:50:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BDsbabygirl nor can I see how he could've possibly said that to reassure me; what, was I supposed to be glad he'd save me from frostbite? Well yeah! You don't want your butt sticking to the hood of the car in the middle of winter, do ya??? <laughing> It may have been insensitive, it may have been him thinking,"See, I know what I'm doing, never fear. I know how to handle situations." and he thinks you're thinking...wow, he's so awesome, this is gonna be great! He has no way to tell what's going on in your head until you tell him. Best of luck Time for me to get some sleep ~Big

BDsbabygirl -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:52:08 AM)
salilus, the past overall I can deal with (if uncomfortably and unhappily); I can't deal with losing a fantasy because he has already done it and so if we did it, he'd be familiar with the feel of a car during sex while I wouldn't be, he'd know how this bumper is better than that one and I wouldn't, it wouldn't surprise him to know that tires can get in the way but I'd have no idea, and so on...part of the pleasure is in discovering those things together

BDsbabygirl -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:55:57 AM)
decides to just do her job and concentrate on fulfilling Big Daddy's desires, never mind her own

SusanofO -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 5:56:33 AM)
salilus: I've seen that kind of thinking here from submissives too. I agree with you. I don't think a Dom is exactly having to make "the ultimate sacrifice" by zipping his lip about what his submissive obviously is sensitive about re: His past fond memories with past submissives - even IF that's not how he meant it to be interpreted. Perception is reality. It's not a "big deal" to just not mention. If it has to be one, I think has ego problems. If she's been raped or something, of course he'd maybe want to hear about it (if it's pertinent and is hindering their relationship). Like I said before, maybe it's just me - I don't think it's cool for anyone to mention past relationships more than a very few times, other than a few "get to know you" inital kinds of conversations. But that's just me, probably. I am sensitive about those things too. It usually makes me feel like I am being compared to someone else, or at least that the other person is an insensitive clod (especially if they knew it bothered me). I know people have fond memories. If they are a widower, or something,that's quite a different thing. I am not saying people can't mention a fond memory here and there. It's just that not even stopping to think that mentioning fond memories from past relationships might bother your current partner strikes me as a bit naive, and insensitive. I remember being brand new at BDSM (and still am in many ways), and for some people, I think it can be quite intimidating (as opposed to being impressive) for a new person with little or no experience to keep being reminded of just how in-experienced they really are. I know it might not be intentional. Any way you cut it, I don't find it "necessary", really. Re: the rest of what you said. I am referring here to "responsible" types of submissives (and I do differentiate them into two types, I suppose - maybe it's not just submissives I do that with - maybe it's people in general I differentiate in those terms). I agree there are plenty of submissives around ready to blame their Dominant or Master for any little thing that goes wrong in their relationship. The Dom or Master is supposed to somehow make their life all better (even if major parts of it were screwed up almost beyond belief when they strolled into his or her life). Not gonna happen. On the other hand, I've read threads where some Doms seem more than ready to take advantage of the myth that Doms and-or Masters (or Dommes) are ready to "take complete responsbility for the entire relationship" and then take next to none, knowing that the submissive will do almost anything to please them. I say "myth" because, IMO, it always takes two people (or more in the case of a Poly family) to make a relationship truly work, regardless of whether one is "ready to take responsibility for the entire relationship" or not, and even if it's a D/s relationship where the Dom or Master (or Domme or Mistress) is calling the shots. I believe in the validity of this theory of mine due to having run across in more than one piece of reading material that states that the average D/s relationship lasts a mere few months, at best. Hopefully, mine (when I get one again) will last longer than that. I realize some D/s relationships do last longer than a few weeks or months. But thinking it will take less "work" because one or the other person has to: 1) Do what you say, or 2) Is going to always tell you what to do - Is mis-guided thinking, IMO. And my distinct impression is that is the reason some people are prone to attempt a D/s relationship. I think some see it as a key to solving their general "relationship problems", when actually, they may just be hard to get along with, and bad at relationships (no offense to anyone or everyone, it's just an observation). On the other hand, many folks I am sure want a D/s relationship because that's what they truly find fulfilling, and are delightful people and have had successful past relationships. I base these observations on what I've read, and on my limited experience with my ex-Dom, with whom I did have a pretty good relationship for over a year, regardless of the fact it soured at the end. I know there are many here who have had long-lived D/s relationships. And many who have not. (Gets off soapbox. Thanks for listening)... - Susan

BDsbabygirl -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 6:11:36 AM)
off the subject, for a sec -- what are "IMO" and "WIIIW" (is that right?)

SusanofO -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 6:15:58 AM)
IMO = In my opinon. WIIWD = What It Is We Do (BDSM activity and D/s rleationships, in general).

slaveluci -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 6:27:50 AM)
~FR~ To the OP: I have read through all the posts here and you have gotten some excellent responses (juliet and ownedgirlie, as always, have been especially helpful). There are so many great responses to use as a springboard but I think the best I can offer is just to tell you a bit about my own experience with the type of jealousy you are currently dealing with. My Master has about 11 years experience as a dom while I have none other than with Him (about 15 months). I have never played or scened with anyone else, never had another dom of any kind. Though He never went into great specifics with me (He knows I don't really care to know and He doesn't have any great desire to reminisce either[;)]), I obviously knew He'd had experience with several other subs. He never had a slave before - no one that He owned as property - but did have what I would consider a significant amount of experience with several other subs who all were pretty experienced themselves from what I gather. Much as you, I didn't want to know about it. Sure I knew He'd been with them and done lots of things I had never experienced. That's cool. But I don't want to know their names or exactly what they did together or any of that. I just didn't want that in my head, thank you[:D]. But, on the other hand, sometimes my curiosity got the better of me. We'd be talking about some particular activity and the opportunity would be there for me to ask about His previous experience with it and the conversation would kind of get around to the fact that He'd done this or that with this one or that one. Then I'd know but later wish I didn't. It was a real rollercoaster. For me, the issue wasn't that I wasn't sure that He loved me or that I felt insecure. Not at all. The issue was that I had zero experience in the areas where He did. He and these other subs had done things - together no less - that I had never done at all. I already felt ill-equipped in a way by not having any prior experience. Then to know that these other subs did and they had enjoyed those particular activities together....well it just seemed like too much to handle. How could I ever compete or "catch up?" Well, the fact is I can't and I don't have to. Master told me this but it just wouldn't sink in. Don't get me wrong. I wasn't a drama queen over it and I didn't even bring it up unless He sensed something was bothering me (this was back when I still thought it should be my decision when to tell Him something...lol....). Things came to a climax one day when the subject of saline injections came up. He told me that He had done them before. Something about that just bothered me so much. Mind you, I have NO desire to be injected with saline but the thought of Him doing that to a former sub and not me, well I just couldn't handle that. I began hinting around that we should do that. He said He hadn't even enjoyed it at all. It's not something He would want to do again. It still bothered me - knowing that He didn't even enjoy it - that she'd experienced it with Him and I hadn't. He said, "I can't believe that you want to do this when you have absolutely no desire for it and I have absolutely no desire to do it again. Are you willing to go that far just to prove a point. Are you actually saying you want me to do something I don't enjoy just so you can say you did it?" Well, the absurdity of that really hit me. I knew I was feeling/acting in a ridiculous manner but I felt I couldn't help it. Anyway, that started off a discussion about how inferior I felt in comparison to the former subs. I had no experience and they had lots. He'd done all this stuff with them and not me, blah, blah, blah. He set me straight that He and I, thank you, had already done lots of things that He had never done with any of them. And, as far as the things He had done with them, when He'd done them with me, they were even better. I thought He was just placating me but the more He talked, the more I realized He was speaking from His heart. As He talked of all the "firsts" that He and I had shared and how much better experiences were with me, it began to finally sink in. He then reminded me that they were "former" not current and that He had never wanted to own any of them or anyone else, for that matter, before me. No other sub had ever lived with Him. As He ran down the list of all that He and I already shared that they never had, I finally got it [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image]! If He had wanted them still in His life, they'd be here. He chose to own me, not them. We have already shared a lot of "firsts" that they never did. Eureka - may be I have nothing to compete with or compare myself to. I can honestly say that, from that conversation forward, I have never again felt like I was competing with the ghosts of subbies past....lol....So, I say all that to say this, OP: As so many others have already eloquently stated, you are there. The others are not. He obviously chose and wants you. Know that, enjoy that, and revel in that. You are with him because he wants you to be. Don't mess it up by getting hung up on his past and refusing to let it go. Good luck............luci

julietsierra -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 6:47:15 AM)
well, this has been interesting. However, after sleeping, then catching up on all of everything everyone has written, here's a new thought. She can't stand her own hair. she doesn't like her own eyes. she doesn't like appearing as if she knows less, has done less, etc than someone else - whether that's watching a movie or fucking/whatever in a car she lied about the whole "I submit" thing, doing so only because she wanted him, not because she desired or even contemplated bdsm prior to this relationship, even though she does like kinky sex ** she needs the important people in her lives upholding her facade - doing what SHE says so that she doesn't have to actually take responsibility for her own life. It's not about him at all. It's about her not liking herself at all and using him to hide that fact from herself. "Oh woe is me, he wants me to give up wigs, he should give up something too!!" Never mind the fact that he likes/loves HER - not just the facade of her she's showing to the world A line my Master is fond of upon hearing of situations like this: "he asked her if she'd give her right arm for him. She said yes. Now he's asking for that arm and she's suddenly figured out he's serious. This isn't about submission anymore. This is about her trying to figure out just how much of that arm she can save while still keeping him." Manipulation, pure and simple - cloaked in a poor poor pitiful me attempt. And all cause she ultimately dislikes herself so can't figure out why he would really like her. Since she can't figure that out, then "hey, let's not work at improving ourselves. Let's just MAKE the dominant play the hide from myself game. And if he doesn't, then isn't he just the meanest, inconsiderate bastard out there!" This has nothing to do with an inconsiderate or too talkative dominant and everything to do with a woman doing everything she can to avoid dealing with herself. And in answer to the title of the thread... you just may be absolutely correct. juliet closing my psychiatry booth - that'll be 5 cents please. juliet

bandit25 -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 6:53:12 AM)
Gee, workout for an hour and look how this damn thing has grown! Susan, I didn't think you meant any disrespect to submissives and, I kind of agree with you...that submissives tend to blame themselves. BUT, Doms aren't mind readers either. He may not have any idea it's bothering her. If a submissive doesn't speak up and tell her dominant, then she IS to blame. No, he may tell her she has to live with it and then she has a decision to make. I don't know...that stuff never bothered me. Now if he is comparing her with his previous submissives well that's a different matter, but it doesn't sound like he is.

SusanofO -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 6:59:23 AM)
According to her, he doesn't have any idea (or much of one, yet) that it is bothering her, you're right, bandit. She was trying to decide exactly how to bring it up to him. That's my impression anyway. What he is doing, vs. how she is taking it, seem to be two different things. If she mentions it bothers her, maybe things will change? I dunno. - Susan

bandit25 -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 7:01:13 AM)
I think you may be right, juliet. To the OP: Get over yourself. Unless this guy lived in a bubble the first part of his life, he's prolly had dinner with someone else before, taken a walk with someone else before, done just about everything there is to do with someone else before. It's called living.

rollinonward05 -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 7:09:41 AM)
quote: In fact, I am not usually submissive in R/L Then why are you pretending? You will never find happiness if you have to pretend to be something you really are not. You say that you two used to be vanilla together. Why not go in that direction. He may agree that is what he wants too, with you. But then don't be surprised when he finds another sub or finds play partners to fulfill that part he needs that you cannot give. Just my 2 cents worth :) be well rollin

rollinonward05 -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 7:12:52 AM)
quote: Isn't submitting about giving regardless of how you feel? Exactly..

julietsierra -> RE: May Not Be Cut Out For This, After All...Jealousy (7/29/2007 7:15:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci ~FR~ To the OP: I have read through all the posts here and you have gotten some excellent responses (juliet and ownedgirlie, as always, have been especially helpful). There are so many great responses to use as a springboard but I think the best I can offer is just to tell you a bit about my own experience with the type of jealousy you are currently dealing with. My Master has about 11 years experience as a dom while I have none other than with Him (about 15 months). I have never played or scened with anyone else, never had another dom of any kind. Though He never went into great specifics with me (He knows I don't really care to know and He doesn't have any great desire to reminisce either[;)]), I obviously knew He'd had experience with several other subs. He never had a slave before - no one that He owned as property - but did have what I would consider a significant amount of experience with several other subs who all were pretty experienced themselves from what I gather. Much as you, I didn't want to know about it. Sure I knew He'd been with them and done lots of things I had never experienced. That's cool. But I don't want to know their names or exactly what they did together or any of that. I just didn't want that in my head, thank you[:D]. But, on the other hand, sometimes my curiosity got the better of me. We'd be talking about some particular activity and the opportunity would be there for me to ask about His previous experience with it and the conversation would kind of get around to the fact that He'd done this or that with this one or that one. Then I'd know but later wish I didn't. It was a real rollercoaster. For me, the issue wasn't that I wasn't sure that He loved me or that I felt insecure. Not at all. The issue was that I had zero experience in the areas where He did. He and these other subs had done things - together no less - that I had never done at all. I already felt ill-equipped in a way by not having any prior experience. Then to know that these other subs did and they had enjoyed those particular activities together....well it just seemed like too much to handle. How could I ever compete or "catch up?" Well, the fact is I can't and I don't have to. Master told me this but it just wouldn't sink in. Don't get me wrong. I wasn't a drama queen over it and I didn't even bring it up unless He sensed something was bothering me (this was back when I still thought it should be my decision when to tell Him something...lol....). Things came to a climax one day when the subject of saline injections came up. He told me that He had done them before. Something about that just bothered me so much. Mind you, I have NO desire to be injected with saline but the thought of Him doing that to a former sub and not me, well I just couldn't handle that. I began hinting around that we should do that. He said He hadn't even enjoyed it at all. It's not something He would want to do again. It still bothered me - knowing that He didn't even enjoy it - that she'd experienced it with Him and I hadn't. He said, "I can't believe that you want to do this when you have absolutely no desire for it and I have absolutely no desire to do it again. Are you willing to go that far just to prove a point. Are you actually saying you want me to do something I don't enjoy just so you can say you did it?" Well, the absurdity of that really hit me. I knew I was feeling/acting in a ridiculous manner but I felt I couldn't help it. Anyway, that started off a discussion about how inferior I felt in comparison to the former subs. I had no experience and they had lots. He'd done all this stuff with them and not me, blah, blah, blah. He set me straight that He and I, thank you, had already done lots of things that He had never done with any of them. And, as far as the things He had done with them, when He'd done them with me, they were even better. I thought He was just placating me but the more He talked, the more I realized He was speaking from His heart. As He talked of all the "firsts" that He and I had shared and how much better experiences were with me, it began to finally sink in. He then reminded me that they were "former" not current and that He had never wanted to own any of them or anyone else, for that matter, before me. No other sub had ever lived with Him. As He ran down the list of all that He and I already shared that they never had, I finally got it [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m21.gif[/image]! If He had wanted them still in His life, they'd be here. He chose to own me, not them. We have already shared a lot of "firsts" that they never did. Eureka - may be I have nothing to compete with or compare myself to. I can honestly say that, from that conversation forward, I have never again felt like I was competing with the ghosts of subbies past....lol....So, I say all that to say this, OP: As so many others have already eloquently stated, you are there. The others are not. He obviously chose and wants you. Know that, enjoy that, and revel in that. You are with him because he wants you to be. Don't mess it up by getting hung up on his past and refusing to let it go. Good luck............luci Normally I'd agree with you luci. What you say makes a whole lot of sense. However, with all the comments from the OP regarding the things she's doing to hide herself from herself, I'd have to say, just from the information given here tonight, that this has less to do with "catching up" and much more to do with "measuring up." And the "measuring up" has to do with how she measures up to herself. juliet

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