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RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 12:55:12 AM

Rafters

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/9/2006
Status: offline

I dunno about you Yanks, but in NZ, EVERY women I have asked has had a job (except for one who was thinking of giving up being a vanilla housewife and turning Pro-Domme)

It may be my no-marrieds, smarties prefered, demographic, but they all have an independent vanilla life. BDSM is a strand interweaved among other non BDSM strands.

< Message edited by Rafters -- 7/30/2007 1:12:24 AM >

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 41

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 2:38:07 AM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

Re moving a couch and stairways

All ya need is an open window, a rope, and the strength of will to pull like a buggar ... blame it on growing up in a family with 9 boys but my head tend's to think logically about these things ..when there's a will there is a way ..

Totally off topic ...but hey, it wasn't me who brought up couches

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 42

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 4:04:29 AM

DawnFire

Posts: 78
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline

Brains over brawn every time. Love it. Thanks for the light hearted comment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Re moving a couch and stairways

All ya need is an open window, a rope, and the strength of will to pull like a buggar ... blame it on growing up in a family with 9 boys but my head tend's to think logically about these things ..when there's a will there is a way ..

Totally off topic ...but hey, it wasn't me who brought up couches

As for all the rest of this gender fight that has nothing to do with the original question...

For all of you that think women can't do this or that - we can, have, and will do so again. Also, taking a gender studies class at your local university would really open your eyes.

For all of you Women (and men) that are arguing with those that say we can't do it, three things -

1. Many of the women that these people quote have decided not to try for career over family and that's their choice. Just because some women are nurturing their caring side does not mean that those of us that take the opportunities can't make as much of them as any male. Even with the proven prejudices against women. And Some women choose not to try for socially defined reasons, for them we should teach them empowerment.

2. All our facts and figures mean nothing to close minded individuals who will not even consider the fact that we may know what we are talking about. We can't change that.

3. We know we can do anything we put our minds to so lets do it and let those who don't believe it stare open mouthed at our abilities.

-Dawn
Your friendly neighborhood Marketing Professional and Feminist

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 43

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 9:25:21 AM

sireninchains

Posts: 63
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I think theres a larger point here, It's more than the ability to do the job, or the inherent fact that women are oppressed on some deeper level. People have made excellent points, but whose to say men don't get the short end of the stick too. And before you think I am crazy, please listen for a second, because I swear I have sociological evidence.

We, as women, have come a tremendous ways to being equal with the male gender, and any male with a brain will say that we can do the same work as he can, even if we are built physically different. But, when it really comes down to it, when a man and a woman are out of a job, whos the bum and whos just down on their luck? :) EXACTLY!!! Men!!! It takes us longer to rise higher in the employment and wage scale but when we fall we dont fall as far. This, is because we always have the roles (whether we want them or not) as potential housewives or babymakers -.-. But hey, it keeps us higher on the sociological social status scale doodad than the average unemployed male.

I can go on for awhile on this, my sociology instructor lectured on it for several classes last semester, but I happen to be late for math. Laters.

(in reply to DawnFire)

Post #: 44

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 11:11:41 AM

hereyesruponyou

Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline

So Siren, do you feel this is reflected in the way that it is often considered that submissive men who do not work are lazy and taking advantage and submissive women who do not work are just "doing what is expected of them"?

_____________________________

Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be

(in reply to sireninchains)

Post #: 45

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 11:27:14 AM

quietboynyc

Posts: 14
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline

It seems that male subs, female doms, and male doms(?) may be physically strong or weak, but female subs tend to be physically weak. If they were physically strong, they probably wouldn't be submissive, or vice-versa.
On the other hand, not all jobs require physical strength.

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 46

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 11:27:28 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

i believe when you try to lump everyone together its like any other absolute...there are always exceptions....and when you look at a society, whether it be geographic - local, state, national - cultural, race, sub-cultural, etc. rather than the individual, you will find a general theme that is contradicted by someone if not a lot of someones...

my question is,

Is there now or has there ever been a society, small or large, where the female has been the primary money maker?

not trying to be argumentative, seriously asking, because i can not think of one...even Matriarchal societies, where a woman or women were clearly in charge, men were still expected to make money...this is also assuming the society had a standard of money, not a barter system...

take care
chelle

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 47

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 12:00:56 PM

sireninchains

Posts: 63
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou

So Siren, do you feel this is reflected in the way that it is often considered that submissive men who do not work are lazy and taking advantage and submissive women who do not work are just "doing what is expected of them"?

On a personal note, if the submissive (of either genders) Master wanted them at home and not working, I wouldnt see them as lazy. But from a societal point of view, I dont think it has to do with BDSM at all, I think its just the way it is, it is ok for women not to work, but when a man is out of a job, hes a lazy bum.

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 48

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 12:02:22 PM

sireninchains

Posts: 63
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Wow...i didnt mean to come off so bitchy in that post. Sorry. >.<. I just got out of class. I hate math...

(in reply to sireninchains)

Post #: 49

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 12:08:47 PM

Rafters

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietboynyc
It seems that male subs, female doms, and male doms(?) may be physically strong or weak, but female subs tend to be physically weak. If they were physically strong, they probably wouldn't be submissive, or vice-versa.

LOL
So there's no mental aspect to submissions, nor any form of Yin/Yang experimentation involved?

(in reply to quietboynyc)

Post #: 50

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 12:17:04 PM

sophia37

Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline

In my circle of 21 family/friends, 10 men 11 women,...75% of the women make more money than and or support the husbands. mall sampling but it feels normal to me when women hold the financial power.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 51

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 12:26:35 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Men can make so much more than women. My father just retired from a union oil refinery. Even if I got a masters degree I wouldn't make as much as he did while he was working. When I get out of college, I'll be lucky if my salary matches his retirement pension (social security not included). I see nothing wrong with society's view on freeloading men. Considering the comparison in earning potential, I would say this attitude is plenty fair. When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind.

~feeling the vertical line in my forehead begin to deepen~ So, let me get this straight....because men can often...though not always...make more than women (by taking jobs that a woman cannot or will not do, in many instances), then in any instance where a man does not work, it is O.K. for society to see him as a freeloader? But...if a woman does not work, and as long as the reasons given are that she cannot make as much in the field she has chosen for herself as a man in a differing field OR that she chooses to devote herself to family and partner, then it would not be valid to even entertain the idea that she might be a freeloader?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 52

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 12:31:00 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Men can make so much more than women. My father just retired from a union oil refinery. Even if I got a masters degree I wouldn't make as much as he did while he was working. When I get out of college, I'll be lucky if my salary matches his retirement pension (social security not included). I see nothing wrong with society's view on freeloading men. Considering the comparison in earning potential, I would say this attitude is plenty fair. When jobs that women can do start paying as much as jobs women aren't physically capable of doing, maybe I'll change my mind.

The only person that is going to limit your income is YOU! If you don't like it, change it.

edited to add.........the only freeloaders in my house are 4 legged and furry.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 7/30/2007 12:32:53 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 53

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 1:27:25 PM

Twicehappy2x

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou
Example...female sub/slave is often expected to not work, stay home and devote her time to her dominant, his home etc... he provides financially. This is seen as acceptable.

Do you happen to have any of their contact info???

Write to ScooterTrash here at collarme.......

Ok, Mistoferin, you can give me a pie in the face for that one, but i could not resist, lmao!

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 54

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 1:29:37 PM

Twicehappy2x

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietboynyc

but female subs tend to be physically weak. If they were physically strong, they probably wouldn't be submissive,

Oh boy are you wrong! Bet you think being a housewife is not really work either!

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to quietboynyc)

Post #: 55

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 1:30:09 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

As to carrying a hide a bed up a flight of stairs, by yourself? Anyone who can do this will be given $1000 by me, following proof thereof.

You decide.

Yours,

benji

So if I sent you a dvd recording of someone walking up stairs while carrying a hide a bed couch, you would send that person $1000? Where do you think I came up with the idea unless I had seen someone do it? It happened 14 years ago. My father was helping me move into an upstairs apartment. I told him to leave the couch outside the door and I would find a couple of guys to carry it up the stairs. He must have been afraid it would rain or something. I offered to carry one end but he said I wasn't strong enough. I watched him stand the couch on one end. lift it from the bottom, and walk up the stairs with it. If my calculations are correct, he was approximately 49 yrs old at the time. I sooo wish I had a video camera back then. I doubt if he could do it now though since he's in his 60's but I shall pass on the word.

Now THAT explains a lot....

Got to love a man that opresses his own child!!

ms

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 56

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 1:32:21 PM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

i'd sure like to know where you're getting your figures from because i've yet to have anyone support me, even when i was married!

(in reply to hereyesruponyou)

Post #: 57

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 1:36:05 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietboynyc

It seems that male subs, female doms, and male doms(?) may be physically strong or weak, but female subs tend to be physically weak. If they were physically strong, they probably wouldn't be submissive, or vice-versa.
On the other hand, not all jobs require physical strength.

Um....Wow I dont even know what to say but this is one of the most wrong statements I have ever heard... But Ill let the rest of the "weak" sub girls here rip you a new one for this shovanistic ill informed statment.

ms

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 7/30/2007 2:16:32 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to quietboynyc)

Post #: 58

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 1:46:32 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: quietboynyc

It seems that male subs, female doms, and male doms(?) may be physically strong or weak, but female subs tend to be physically weak. If they were physically strong, they probably wouldn't be submissive, or vice-versa.
On the other hand, not all jobs require physical strength.

Wow... which fem subs have you been hanging out with? Valyraen adores me because I have the ability to kill him yet the desire to submit to him.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to quietboynyc)

Post #: 59

RE: gender roles and $$$ - 7/30/2007 1:49:15 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Now THAT explains a lot....

Got to love a man that opresses his own child!!

ms

Sad thing is it really might. Even when I was small, I was treated as strong. I helped carry the all the heavy things for my mother, and then my father as his back started to act up. The only reason this has changed is because my back has started to go out much too early and we don't want to make it worse.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/30/2007 1:50:16 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 60

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