RE: gender roles and $$$

RE: gender roles and $$$ (Full Version)

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Mystique567 -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 5:44:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: quietboynyc I realize my mistake, but don't be so sure of that. I know kung-fu.[sm=cool.gif] I know a bunch of foreign words too!!!

Mystique567 -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 5:45:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: Mystique567 quote: ORIGINAL: quietboynyc It seems that male subs, female doms, and male doms(?) may be physically strong or weak, but female subs tend to be physically weak. If they were physically strong, they probably wouldn't be submissive, or vice-versa. On the other hand, not all jobs require physical strength. I think the boy needs to stay quiet, this weak submissive could probably take him. Let's arm wrestle for the chance to go first! The only problem I ever had on a job was getting a 3-section, extendable ladder back up onto the roof rack of an Econoline 350 van. Prolly could've cured that with some gym time. Spent a lot of time on top of trucks, under trucks, in trucks (truck including fire engines), up on roofs, etc. Just found different ways to do the job - like using a crescent wrench handle as a "cheater", or leaving a bench seat half out of the truck so I could get it back in by myself. So arrrrrr, bring on the men, arrrr! Always enjoyed wrestling (the interesting things start when I lose [:D]). thornhappy Hmmm.....how come the whole though of arm wrestling has me strangly arroused?

quietboynyc -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 5:58:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: quietboynyc I realize my mistake, but don't be so sure of that. I know kung-fu.[sm=cool.gif] Ahhh... then you know that most, if not all, styles of kung-fu, karate and other Asian martial arts are designed for smaller bodies, giving the woman the advantage over the man in most cases. By the way, I just got back from sparring class. Care to play? [:D] I do have a fairly small body, but I'm not confident enough to take on a ninja who associates with pirates. O_o

MagiksSlave -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 6:04:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: quietboynyc Bah gawd, looks like I should've done more research... It does look like that huh?? ms

switchsecrets -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 6:05:29 PM)
there are plenty of career opportunities for women these days and i see more than a few in the management ranks making 6 figures. not to mention business owners. i briefly dated a successful woman who owned her own business and had 3 times the money i had, but she never offered to pay for anything and she had expensive tastes, i decided i couldn't afford her lifestyle. women who make less seem to be more thoughtful, generous and contribute even if it's in a small fashion. It's the thought that counts.

Emperor1956 -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 10:09:51 PM)
quote: Rafters: I dunno about you Yanks, but in NZ, EVERY women I have asked has had a job (except for one who was thinking of giving up being a vanilla housewife and turning Pro-Domme) It may be my no-marrieds, smarties prefered, demographic, but they all have an independent vanilla life. BDSM is a strand interweaved among other non BDSM strands. A bit of a hijack, but: This fascinates me because about 30 years ago my wife's best friend packed off to N-Zed with her husband because "Reagan was gonna blow up the USA and it was the only place to be safe." What can I say, they were hippie types. Anyway, she was a very fine systems manager/systems software programmer, had been trained at Standard Oil (that's what BP once was, folks). And when she got to Auckland she found no one would hire her because (they said to her face) 'we don't believe in women stealing men's jobs' Have things changed that much there in 30 years? I believe they could...things have changed in the USA pretty radically in 40 or so years. E.

Emperor1956 -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 10:11:50 PM)
HIJACK...but maybe not. Is anyone else watching the new AMC series "Mad Men"? What it says about gender roles in the workplace in 1960 is pretty damn amazing. Watching with my almost 20 year old daughter, who cannot believe women were treated "that way". And the amazing amount of smoking...EVERYONE smokes, everywhere...Did ya love the scene in the gyne's office when he's puffing away while she's in the stirrups? ... but I digress. E.

Rafters -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/30/2007 11:53:15 PM)
Forbes gives position 23 on its Global Power 50 most powerful women list to (outgoing) Theresa Gattung CEO, Telecom New Zealand. The current NZ (US Translation) Prime Minister (President) Helen Clarke is female. And even if the lesbian rumours are true, considering we've elected a M2F transexual and a pro-pot Rastafarian as MP's (Senators) in the past, it wouldn't get her kicked out of office. We've just demoted MP David Benson-Pope for telling an inconsistent story about getting the wife of the opposition party fired from a civil service role. We've legalised prostitution and gay marriage while criminalising parental spanking of children. And ever since the undignified 1989 death of "Peter Plumley Walker" most of the Adult TV watching public has gained a detailed idea of what BDSM is and at least one of the risks, from the state broadcasting channel.

Aine -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 7:12:32 AM)
Fast Reply to noone in particular. I've been offered manual labor jobs in construction. I can't do it because of a bad back. I still do shite around the house that my doctors and physical therapists don't want me doing because I feel useless when I don't do them. Yes, right now JL supports me. I still work and make money, I pay one of the car payments and pay for stuff when we go out. Thing is, we've agreed that once I get my Doctorate in Pharmacy, I will support him when he gets out of the navy and goes back to school himself. Granted it's not a career that is physically demanding, aside from being on your feet up to 12 hours a day, which is effin hell on the back (which I've experienced seeing as I'm a pharmaceutical technician), this is a career that is still in many eyes held as a MALE dominated profession. Yes, it's not manual labor, but you have to be damned smart to be a successful and good pharmacist. I work with older male pharmacists that make no qualms about making it clear what they think about women working in this field. It just drives me even more to do better and show them that I'm not just some dumb blonde kid. So to the OP Blame your father for your twisted and backwards way of thinking.

MissOchistic -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 9:20:08 AM)
One of my favorite things in my old bedroom was a picture of my grandma Margeret in a bandana, thick gloves, and a pretty dress stamping out metal in a factory. I rather think she was smiling because it was a nice break from the work of a housewife.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 9:28:22 AM)
people who work together grow together... share more and can make their dreams happen together on alot of levels gives a better meaning to a we thing :)

Emperor1956 -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 11:57:42 AM)
quote: Aine: Fast Reply to noone in particular. I've been offered manual labor jobs in construction. I can't do it because of a bad back. (snip) Thing is, we've agreed that once I get my Doctorate in Pharmacy, I will support him when he gets out of the navy and goes back to school himself. Granted it's not a career that is physically demanding, aside from being on your feet up to 12 hours a day, which is effin hell on the back (which I've experienced seeing as I'm a pharmaceutical technician), this is a career that is still in many eyes held as a MALE dominated profession. Yes, it's not manual labor, but you have to be damned smart to be a successful and good pharmacist. I work with older male pharmacists that make no qualms about making it clear what they think about women working in this field. It just drives me even more to do better and show them that I'm not just some dumb blonde kid. So to the OP Blame your father for your twisted and backwards way of thinking. FR to Aine, off topic (or is it, still): Oh, aine...traditional retail pharmacy is hell on the back. I'm the son of a (male) pharmacist, the grandson of a (male) pharmacist, and the nephew of two (one male, one female--licensed in the early 1950s when it was really rare). Can you tell what my father's family did for a living? I wish you luck, but I have to say that if you are gonna do the traditional route, its pretty physically tiring. About it being a male-dominated profession? I would have agreed with you c. 1960, but pharmacy today is one of the classic examples of a profession that has been commoditized, so that the "professional" aspects have been greatly diminished. Pharmacy has suffered over the past 50 years in rankings in salary, prestige, "desirability" as measured by surveys of incoming college students, etc. All of this is symptomatic of the commoditization of a profession. And with that commoditization (some would say in part because of it) has been an influx of women into the field. I am not saying that women becoming part of a profession or workforce reduces the attractiveness of the profession (tho there are sociologists and work-theorists who do say that). But the presence of women does appear to indicate a decrease in perceived value of a profession. Historically we've seen it happen with high-school level teachers (which was a male-dominated profession until the 1930s in the USA) and with department store clerks (a profession that was exclusively male until the early 20th C). In those instances, and in pharmacy, we see a great increase in the number of women in a relatively short time. Women who sometimes then work part time (often because they are mothers) and women who enter the profession young, work a few years, leave and then return after childrearing years. This leads to the creation of what is commonly called a "pink collar ghetto". (note, none of these ideas are entirely my own -- any competent student of work would have run into this in college if not earlier). By the way, pharmacy is not the only profession that is being scrutinized as a possible "pink collar ghetto". Two fascinating other recent thoughts are that law, with the 51% of current law students being women (up from effectively 0% 70 years ago and 8% just 40 years ago) might become "pink collarized" and that the high-tech industry, notably machismo and geek-driven, saves a place for "the girls" when it comes to PR, because PR requires lady-like skills.

mnottertail -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 11:59:57 AM)
quote: Aine: I can't do it because of a bad back. Your front appears to be just fine though. Ron

GhitaAmati -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 12:54:31 PM)
reply to no one in particular... Ive gone to college for 7 years to do what I love...I now have a degree in Engineering with several certificates in construction technology. I cant get a job that pays more than it would cost for me to put three kids in daycare. Maybe one day when they all are old enough for school I will go back to work, but for now, my husband who has no college degree and barely graduated high school makes WAY more money than I could ever hope to. I had teachers in college who refused to teach a girl. I would get failing marks on papers that I KNOW were written better than the men in my class. Hell, I wrote papers for men in my classes and they would get better marks than me, even though I wrote both papers almost exactly the same. For those of you who said women cant do the jobs men do, Ive taken alot of odd jobs over the years while going to school part time and raising my oldest son. I worked in a feed warehouse hauling around 50 & 100lb bags of feed all day and throwin bales of hay around. I drove a tow truck at night for extra cash. Ive framed houses and crawled around attics and under trailers. Ive done mechanic work and tiled floors. Should I get punished becaused I occasionally need to take time off for a sick child? Nope, I just dont get paid for that day. I got my first paycheck from a hardware store locally when I was 9 years old. My grandfather worked there and I went to work with him on days off of school from the time I was 4. When it comes to that sort of thing, I know what im talking about 90% of the time. When I was 20, I was working there as a manager, I would have customers come in, pass me by to ask some male at the cash register the answer to a question. The cashier would say they didnt know and to ask me, the customer would look at me, laugh, and walk out the door instead of ask a female. Itg pisses me off to no end....it doesnt matter what your gender is, I could hammer circles around some of the male construction workers in my area, but lord knows Im never going to get their jobn or their paycheck. Once my UMs are old enough, Im going back to school to get a buisness degree to do someething I absolutly HATE and thats sit behind a desk, becaue Ive learned that its the only place Ill ever be able to make a decent paycheck.

zumala -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 4:57:25 PM)
I admit that I haven't read the entire thread yet, but the arguement (read: discussion) that I've seen so far has given me a thought. If you're going to factor kids into women getting paid less, then you'd damn well better go on an individual basis. I have no children and have no plans to breed. Why should I be penalized in pay for being female? I'm at work just as often and as long as the guys are. zum quote: ORIGINAL: Archer quote: ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence Sometimes the type of job has more to do with who takes off than the gender of the person with the job. My ex literally had to show up to work even if he was sick, so he could hardly take a day off to care for the kids. As for taking off for pregnancy, men are now entitled to the same period of time off for a new baby, so that's hardly a difference anymore. And in the long run, a month or two off for a baby over a lifetime career hardly means anything. 1. True the nature of the work can make a huge difference , however whe those jobs are open who fills them when they tell the applicants that "you can't have time off for the kids XYZ" ? Men much more often than women in large part because men focus on their carear more than family. 2. The law does now "allow" for men to do so as well however it is in large part theoreticly possible, not many folks can afford for both parents to take the leave of absense and if the choice is one or the other how often is it going to be the dad????? A month or two per child + sick child tiime + school time off for the kids times three kids can certainly add up to alot of time off as well as alot of missed opportunity for advancement.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 6:07:56 PM)
there is a reason men are paid more someone explained to me. it has to do with dedication. and our competiveness to work harder to get things done and there are some other reasons i have find this article in usa today it listed it better then i can say it here and forbes had something on this too

switchsecrets -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 6:44:48 PM)
alot of things are taken into consideration in someone's pay. i think i've been discriminated against paywise versus married men with a family. i was divorced young and had only 1child (support), but married men with kids at home seem to get paid more. they know my support is over and live alone, so you don't need as much. once you're with a company for many years, they know you're not going to walk away from the pension either. i think a married couple is compensated more partly because the woman supposedly keeps the house and kids in order and he's able to focus on the job. Or was that only in Ozzie and Harriet? Part of my pay package is Health Care benefits. I don't have anyone else on it, so they're making out good on me there too. one guy at work has 6 kids.

Griswold -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 7:13:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hereyesruponyou well there are always the user types out there. i rolled my ex's debt into my mortgage then we parted. so he got clean credit and i got stuck with a payment i can barely afford. gotta love it I'd just like to say...I'm single if you still have credible equity. (I've always felt my lot in life was to find a woman who could take care of me in the style I've become accustomed to).

MidMichCowboy -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 7:27:21 PM)
I know a couple, she is a doctor, he stays home and takes care of kids and house. He is her sub. Its just a natural lifestyle for them. Me, I'd love to stay home and have my lady beside me. But I just can't seem to get the numbers right for the lottery. Michael

NefertariReborn -> RE: gender roles and $$$ (7/31/2007 8:20:30 PM)
Thinks this is going a little of track here. I gather the OP is talking about contradictions when it comes to Dominants. Doms are expected to pursue because they are Dominant, Femdoms expect to be pursued regardless of the fact that they are Dominant. Doms court, Femdoms expect to be courted. Femslaves (some) stay home and focus on home and hearth, maleslaves (some, maybe more than femslaves correct Me if I'm wrong) are expected to both work and take care of hearth and home. Contradictions for the same "job descriptions." It's not a women are just as good as men in the job market/physically thread. Do you think it's fair that the dichotomy exists. Should all dominants do the pursuing because they are dominant? Should the male subbies get to stay home etc. etc. etc.

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