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ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

When words are all you have to go on, the style of the prose, the punctuation, and yes even typographical errors do significantly change how one is perceived.  If someone were to show up in real life with mismatched clothes and hair that hasn't been washed in a month, you bet people would use that information to form an opinion of that person.  I don't see why people want to pretend that basic composition skills (or the lack thereof) shouldn't be used when forming an opinion of someone.

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

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ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar
When words are all you have to go on, the style of the prose, the punctuation, and yes even typographical errors do significantly change how one is perceived.  If someone were to show up in real life with mismatched clothes and hair that hasn't been washed in a month, you bet people would use that information to form an opinion of that person.  I don't see why people want to pretend that basic composition skills (or the lack thereof) shouldn't be used when forming an opinion of someone.

I know that how people write plays a role in my perception of what they are saying and a small part in my opinion of them.  The use of profanity in a non humorous discussion will often give a perception of hostility.  The use of absolutes will often demonstrate black and white thinking that is indicative of close-mindedness to me or it can be a demonstration of lack of thought being put into what is said.  Negative judgments about a group of people based on a very small sliver of information about them can also indicate a close minded person.

Spelling mistakes are par for the course in reading message boards and I don't think they demonstrate much about a person's intelligence or lack thereof.  I do notice that the more a person's emotions are controlling what they are writing rather than intellect controlling what is being written, the more often they make spelling mistakes.  Excessive use of question marks or exclamation points is another indicator that the content may be running on emotions rather than intellect.

It is not often that I will get involved in a thread that has these elements to it; though there are times that I think what I have to say is significant enough to warrant posting.

Knight's Kyra

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
But can we please refocus the thread just a little, im sure there are many that would be willing to start a new thread on grammer and how what we write and how we write it effects peoples opinions of us here, but please this isnt the thred for that.

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
But can we please refocus the thread just a little, im sure there are many that would be willing to start a new thread on grammer and how what we write and how we write it effects peoples opinions of us here, but please this isnt the thred for that.

Threads have a way of naturally evolving on their own.  You expressed a lack of understanding on how your posts could have received the reception that they have.  This naturally led people to explain how the written word can lead to certain impressions, so my comments to another person's post were not out of place.

Knight's Kyra

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
I never said they where out of place.. in fact I said I agreed with you... I wasnt directing anything after the anicial comment at you, the other was a statement made to everyone to please re focus the conversation on what it was started for. I dont think I was asking to much of anyone by asking that we stick to the OP.. I didnt say anyone was out of place I simply asked that we re rail the convo back to where it belonged.

ms

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Taggard ~  The question of "suffering" is an interesting one as well.  Whenever I begin negotiations with a slave, I make it very clear the "slavery is not always fun."  For me, again, I like tangible evidence that the relationship I have with my property is Master/slave.  This means that only forcing them to do things they want to do just won't cut it.  I have to re-enforce the idea that they are slaves by throwing in some unpleasantness...otherwise, it is purely a subjective and theoretic Master/slave relationship.

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ORIGINAL: Padriag

The point, however, remains rather simple.  Sometimes a dominant will require something of a submissive that is a form of sacrifice, and often that sacrifice will entail a form of suffering.  Through that suffering, that personal sacrifice, the submissive demonstrates their commitment to the relationship.  Those who fail in that sacrifice may face doubts about that same commitment.

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ORIGINAL: Padriag

After having skimmed much of the ten pages of posts, and being somewhat amused by some predictable results, it seems we've come full circle back to the original topic.  I suspect not everyone really wants an open exchange of ideas and would rather hear only agreeable opinions... but what the hell... here goes anyway.

To paraphrase, why is suffering a common element of D/s relationships?  To wit, why do some value it?

The answer is because we value sacrifice, especially self-sacrifice.  Look at any civilization or culture in human history and you'll not only find this theme, you'll often find it ennobled.  Examples range from as grand as the central theme of Christianity (the self-sacrifice of Christ for the sake of the entire world) to something as mortal as child birth.  When a police officer or fireman or soldier dies in the line of duty, we admire their self-sacrifice.  Just as we admire those who give up their time, money, etc. to help others.  Sacrifice is a part of the human psyche, and in virtually all its forms it is associated with some form of suffering.  We admire such suffering, we respect it, because we know on a very basic level that such suffering entails personal cost, and therefore is a powerful statement of the commitment and dedication one person has towards a goal, a belief or something they value.  This is the essence of what we admire about a fireman who dies trying to save the life of another... that one person is so dedicated to that goal that they are willing to suffer the loss of even their own life.  It is truly a powerful statement of what is in their heart, that intangible place we cannot see or touch, but through their actions we are still given evidence of what is there.

There is irony here too, because so many submissives are also masochists who enjoy suffering in various forms, some of the things dominants might require are not much of a sacrifice for such a submissive and so prove little or nothing.  Beliefs and behaviors indoctrinated within us from culture and socialization can be powerful forces, sometimes driving our behavior even when it makes no sense.  So we whip a masochist who enjoys being whipped and still derive satisfaction from giving the whipping.  Life's just full of these little ironies and idiosyncracies.

The point, however, remains rather simple.  Sometimes a dominant will require something of a submissive that is a form of sacrifice, and often that sacrifice will entail a form of suffering.  Through that suffering, that personal sacrifice, the submissive demonstrates their commitment to the relationship.  Those who fail in that sacrifice may face doubts about that same commitment.

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ORIGINAL: LadyIce

Interesting, the amount of people that insist on the title of "submissive" instead of "bottom", but
really only want to submit to what they want to submit to.