RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?!

RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (Full Version)

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Alhazred -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 8:42:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave Why?? Why do you have to suffer or make your slave suffer to show that they are your owned slave?? Suffering is good, everyone needs to suffer more, not make others suffer, just themselves.

sabis -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 8:52:10 PM)
(Paraphrasing) "I will offer up no sacrifice to my Lord that costs me naught..." The suffering that I take on willingly for the pleasure of my Master is the sweetest coin with which I can offer him tribute and sacrifice. If everything I give of myself, of my servitude, of my sex, of my life, doesn't come with a price... then what value does it truly have? But if I gaze up at him, tremulous and weeping, wrung with exhaustion in every limb of my form, having given him my all... Embracing my suffering, out of love and devotion and servitude.... That is the greatest offering to him that I can make. Does that mean that he requires pointless anguish on my part? No, because to do so would cheapen it. But if desire leaps in his eyes as he crushes my nipple in his vise-like grasp, or that great beast that lies coiled in the sadistic depths of his soul rises up in response to my arching my chest to thrust my breasts out to take yet another lash... then yes, I have pleased him. I have suffered, I have endured, and I have given something to him that is priceless, matchless, and worthy of his dominance. In His service, ~sabis Owned by Cumulus

missbehaeven -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 8:52:51 PM)
~warm smiles~ Greetings everyone, I certainly understand that some submissives feel a need to suffer, whether it be in a physically masochistic manner, or otherwise, and matching that need to someone who can fulfill it is important. I hate pain, and the idea of accepting pain, physically or emotionally, for the purpose of accepting pain is repugnant to me..Hence I'm not looking for a sadist.... I don't see the idea of suffering as noble or proof of submissiveness or committment. I thrive much better under positive reinforcement, and feel that any relationship will flourish better when both seek to make each other happy. To me there are enough things in the "real world" that I have no control over that can and do make me suffer...I don't need to have that in a relationship. Be safe, all...miss

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 9:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missbehaeven ~warm smiles~ Greetings everyone, I certainly understand that some submissives feel a need to suffer, whether it be in a physically masochistic manner, or otherwise, and matching that need to someone who can fulfill it is important. I hate pain, and the idea of accepting pain, physically or emotionally, for the purpose of accepting pain is repugnant to me..Hence I'm not looking for a sadist.... I don't see the idea of suffering as noble or proof of submissiveness or committment. I thrive much better under positive reinforcement, and feel that any relationship will flourish better when both seek to make each other happy. To me there are enough things in the "real world" that I have no control over that can and do make me suffer...I don't need to have that in a relationship. Be safe, all...miss yeah thats pretty much how I feel... but I enjoy pain but haveing Master give me pain isnt suffering to me!! ms

Keshia1969 -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 11:00:45 PM)
Greetings everyone this one was reading the post and thought,she would post im new to posting on here.this one think;s that if a slave is suffering she shall find another way to express her suffering,her emotins,and all....when you are a slave and you do wrong you will be pushined for what you have done...but alot of slaves think alot of there Masters and thats a good thing....and i agree with the rest of you suffering is not a bad thing...which this one enjoys pain..to most though suffering can be ruff ...just try dealing with it in a different way and a different light...when my ex Master would get mad whip me with a leather whip....i suffered but this one suffered for his pleasure and this one had no complaints i enjoyed it knowing this one pleased him so well.....when he lashed out and grabbed the back of my hair for something this one had done it made me more pleased. be well and warm wishes. ~~keshia1969~~

robertolapiedra -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 11:29:44 PM)
quote: I don't feel the need to suffer to prove anything, I don't need to be "put in my place" by being made to suffer, I know where my place is, I know where it is because it is where I chose to be!! So why do so many feel suffering needs to be part of the deal??? ms Hello MagikSlave. I have read somewhere that most subs "think" that "all" dominants have a sadistic side. It would not surprise me to find the equivalent in dominants that "think" that "all" subs have a "masochistic" side. With the "do this, if you are a true submissive" thing (vanilla equivalent to "do this, if you love me") the x-level sadistic dom is simply "bringing out" what "must" be there, somewhere. In the thread you mentioned, I challenged the "property proof concept" as either being kink or a romantic notion of "true" property, which everyone knows is symbolic and not "real". Well, I was "intellectually" dismissed as not having the same concepts of M/s and limits. At least, I got them to admit that they got "pleasure" from asking their subs to do disagreeable things, even if these would be inside their limits parameters. There you go, doms that do this, get pleasure from it. If your "alleged masochistic side" can't take it, you are not true "slave-property". In my opinion, one can intellectualize the "necessity" of imposing "displeasure" to help someone realize some arbitrarily set "potential", one is just double talking to mask the fact that one is enjoying another's "displeasure", for one's own "pleasure" (kink). The one thing a sub has to realize is the truth, and own up to it. "I am treated shitty because he likes it". "Maybe he thinks it is good for me", maybe. The submissive has a choice to safe word out, just as the dominant made the choice to take the risk of having the sub opt out of an "imposed" disagreeable task. Quote: "So why do so many feel suffering needs to be part of the deal???" - Because they like to see the suffering, it gives them pleasure. The rest is bullshit in my opinion but remember, someone said that I did not have the same concepts of M/s and limits as he did. Based on this, I would recommend non-masochists to beef up their limit list in the "suffering" department. Just my longterm D/s M/s 24/7 take on the subject. RL

SusanofO -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 11:43:04 PM)
Magik: I equate this kind of thinking to the same kind of mis-understandings some people can sometimes have about some other people using "Humiliation" in a BDSM relationship. I think the person in the post you quoted probably had a difference of opinion with their partner re: What kind of "kink" they were both "into". If I wound up with someone who wanted 24-7 watersports (as a submissive anyway, I am a Switch), I'd be lost. I don't want to do it, really. I just find it a little "squicky". Isn't that what "limits" are for? I think people need to discuss their limits with their partner (and abide by them, too). Define "suffering". Also, some people, truly are (consensual) Sadists (and some people are (consensual) masochists). Different strokes for different folks. If "Suffering" isn't what almost everyone here is probably after (in some context, using different "methods") - well then, what are any people all doing here with whips and chains in the first place at all? "Suffering" can feel pretty darned good, in the right context, that is, given the right partner. Misunderstandings of the use of Humiliation, for example, in a BDSM relationship, can seem, at times, to abound on these CM boards (especially among "newbies".) Personally - I love it, both as a submissive and as a Domme (I am a Switch). Some people think it's "cruel". It isn't supposed to be - it is supposed to feel good. If the people involved didn't truly appreciate it, I doubt they'd keep using it in their BDSM interactions with eachother. My take? They just don't "get" how good some really well done Humiliation can make me (or a partner) feel (although lately it's been rare, not "well done" - but that's only because I've been kinda busy, hehe.) And it can feel really good. Will they ever understand that? I don't really care that much, if they do, or not. I can like it (a lot), and I'll probably continue to like it. *But also, some people are just plain dysfunctional, and the think being treated poorly as a human being generally, is part of the D/s deal, and sometimes consequently that they are being mistreated at every turn (even if they're not). I find this to be just plain sad. Sometimes, though, they may genuinely be being (non-consensually) abused. In that case, I think they need to leave. - Susan

robertolapiedra -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (7/31/2007 11:52:35 PM)
quote: when my ex Master would get mad whip me with a leather whip....i suffered but this one suffered for his pleasure and this one had no complaints i enjoyed it knowing this one pleased him so well.....when he lashed out and grabbed the back of my hair for something this one had done it made me more pleased. Hello Keshia 1969. Uhhh....ex Master? Part time, 24/7 or cyber? RL.

BitaTruble -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 12:22:43 AM)
~fr~ I absolutely use BDSM to get a kink on, no doubt about it. But I use it for a whole lot more than that as well which is why I say pfft to 'it's all about sex'. I'm tough. I've got a thick skin. I don't let many people inside my heart and suffering allows me to let go, even if only for a little while, of that tough exterior. It exposes me and lets the raw come through. Suffering cuts out my cancers and my hurts .. those things that can eat away at my soul if I'm not watchful and when the suffering comes to an end, I'm renewed and refilled with the blessings which abound in my life. And I'm grateful to have the opportunity to shed myself of those torments. Suffering is a means to an end for me and, in this case, the end justify's the means. Perhaps, one day, I'll get to a point where I can do all that without the external influence of suffering .. but having it turned inside for so many years, having to be tough and guarded for so long and having the outlet of BDSM that I do, this is what works for me at this time. As for being a rule.. you already know that's not true. Some do, some don't.. just like everything else related to BDSM. Suffering is not a constant, it's a tool and not everyone has the same tools in their tool box. Celeste

slimcontroller -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 1:35:16 AM)
quote: is a form of role play or scene, I agree with you Rover. So many of these threads seem to be based on a very narrow perception of life generally. I have had a slave where no BD or sm were involved. The relationship was M/s never-the-less, ownership collar the lot. This does not mean that all slaves have to be the same, there is a spectrum and that is one end of the scale. Given we live in a free society under the rule of law and that slavery as a legal entity is banned any Master / slave relationship has to be voluntary. This is the basis I would work on. Given this any aspect of the relationship must be negotiated and subject to refusal in the ultimate. That a slave submits to a beating, pain applied more 'scientifically' or being marked by needle, metal or fire does not mean it is an exception.. Merely that the slave ( and presumably the Master) has derived some satisfaction. That this may be transitory or illusary and/or a matter od subsequent regret is not actually the point. Slimcontroller

thetammyjo -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 6:06:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Do I have to make Fox suffer to show him and I that he is my slave? No. I'm not so unsure of my ownership nor he so unable and incapable of making the commitment to be my slave. However because I am a sadist and he is not a masochist he does indeed suffer from time to time. Why? Because as my property it is his job to carter to my whims and my needs. At times that includes my sadistic desires and as Fox says "It's his duty to serve me in any way I desire that does not harm him". Hurt him, hell yes, harm him, never intentionally would I do that and I would come down on myself very hard should I ever unintentionally harm him. How much though does he suffer in those sadistic moments? It has lessened a great deal. There are things now that he can enjoy that seven years ago he could not. He tells me and shows me that he receives some pleasure and happiness out of pleasing me so I think that tempers the suffering a great deal. You know, this M/s or 24/7 Ds thing isn't a 50/50 split, it isn't equality, it isn't completely fair. And we are cool with that because it makes us both happier and better people than we would be without it and without each other. So yeah, Fox will always get the shorter end of the stick if you like to think about it that way. But the majority of his end is still very positive and rewarding for him just like my end is for me. The day that stops being the case for one of us is the day I think we need to end this and move on to a better relationship. Ahh yes, However I would never pick a sadist as a Dom if i was not a masachist, doing so well you sort of made your own bed on that one... Not to say there is anything wrong with that, just not as compatable as I like my SO to be. That's very wise of you to choose someone who closely aligns with you. Fox and I align on almost everything else. Knowing that it is near impossible to find someone who likes and dislikes exactly what you do and knowing that authority is far more important than SM to either of us, we are a good match. Perhaps he sees serving my sadistic desires as part of what it means to be a slave and since that is what he wants, he fulfills those desires as best he can. I doubt very much that he sees himself as "suffering" though but merely as part of his duty. He has a very strong sense of duty -- he came with that sense, I cannot claim any of it came from my training or my ownership.

slaveish -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 7:31:09 AM)
The way I see it is that in a long-term D/s or M/s relationship, I will be expected to display my submission even when I am not in the mood to do so. Overcoming it, expressing my willingness to remain submissive, even when I don't want to, "suffering" through a task while remaining in my place is what I do and a reaffirmation of what I am. It is challenging, it can be maddening, and in the end it is ultimately satisfying.

GhitaAmati -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 7:38:07 AM)
I havent read this entire thread yet, just wanted to put down a few thoughts...... First...I think there are as many reasons for being into this lifestyle as there are people in it...everyones different, everyone has different reasons and thought processes. I actually like to suffer in my relationship...but I dont mean suffer as in im miserable. I enjoy being pushed to do things I wouldnt normally choose to do on my own. I get all wet and mushy when some of the "social limits" are pushed. All those things you were told were bad to do when you were young....Those things you have to struggle with inside your mind to come to terms with doing. Sir is constantly pushing my limits, making me redefine what I can and cant do...thats a struggle for me and I love it. I also happen to be a pain slut....not a masochist....hate some pain, love erotic pain.....I have had my ass compeatly black and blue with bruising and loved it. Hell yet it hurt, of course it was hard to stay still while it was happening...but I enjoyed it too. Love the pain, massive reminder for me of my submission to him, even when Im being beat by someone else I see it as submission to my Sir and not to the person swinging the whip/cane/paddle/car buffer (dont ask....if they're reading this they'll get the joke) What about those nights when I say "not now Sir, I have a headache" Yea right...like Id actually say that, but im using it as an example. Sir always expects me to tell him when Im not feeling well, but that doesnt mean he isnt still going to ask something of me. And as his submissive I am still expected to serve him to the best of my abilities...sick/headache/whatever. I see all these things as "suffering" but I love it, none of them damage me mentally, and the physical damage heals in time.

velvetears -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 7:55:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mstrjx I use a different sort of word to express something similar to what you're trying to get at, I believe. If a couple is D/s, but to use your ideas.... If you know your place and a Dom/Master/Mistress never requires anything untoward, what is the difference between that and a vanilla couple? If you say that one person is still setting the guidelines in all cases and the other not at all, that could still happen in the vanilla world (albeit rare). So, the way I think of it is that s-types might need some sort of 'friction'. Something that is desired by the s-type but denied, or ordered by the d-type but unwanted by the s-type. It doesn't have to be anything all that important, and certainly not rubbing against limits, just something that is a reminder that you really aren't thinly-disguised vanillas. And I think that having that periodic friction might be appreciated rather than having negative connotations. Jeff i agree with you here. If there is never any friction, as you put it (and good word by the way) , then how would there be any growth, learning, or change? If the sub is never challenged and put in "uncomfortable" situations or positions how can he or she feel her submission in any real way?

SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 9:17:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo I dont think one needs to suffer in order to identify as a slave or as 'property'. I personally need there to be some suffering in my submission, because to me, it just has more value that way. It brings it to a new dimension to me that I seem to need and respond to. Suffering, to some extent, even deepens my submission and makes for a stronger bond...Though Im not sure I can explain why. But I certainly wouldnt say that suffering is a defining factor for one to feel owned. I'm gonna throw a ditto onto Marie's post, along with agreeing that I'm not certain I can explain why I need some suffering, only that I do. There was a thread recently wanting to understand sadism from the viewpoint of the sadist. I posted that as a masochist, I don't always want, like or even enjoy the pain. But I feel a deep, burning need to suffer it from Him and for Him. So for whatever the reasons, I do need to suffer some physically, mentally and emotionally as His slave. Like Marie, I'm not sure if I can explain why exactly, but I do know it deepens the bond I have with Him. .....i am the same way also so understand completely.

SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 9:19:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missbehaeven ~warm smiles~ Greetings everyone, I certainly understand that some submissives feel a need to suffer, whether it be in a physically masochistic manner, or otherwise, and matching that need to someone who can fulfill it is important. ....yup- indeed-y.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 9:26:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave So why do so many feel suffering needs to be part of the deal??? ms "Because thats the way, uh-huh uh-huh, I like it. uh-huh. uh-huh." - Jim Carrie in Bruce Almighty

thetammyjo -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 9:36:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish The way I see it is that in a long-term D/s or M/s relationship, I will be expected to display my submission even when I am not in the mood to do so. Overcoming it, expressing my willingness to remain submissive, even when I don't want to, "suffering" through a task while remaining in my place is what I do and a reaffirmation of what I am. It is challenging, it can be maddening, and in the end it is ultimately satisfying. From speaking with Fox over the years I think this is very much how he sees it and I happen to agree though I also believe I have responsibility to both of us to try and make the positives far out number and out weigh the negetives.

BrutalMasterOne -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 9:56:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave My Master has NEVER made me do something I really didnt want to do, I am more then happy to have done anything for him, but he never asked me to do sertain things because he knew it would really upset me to have to do them. Does it make me less of a slave because he never made me suffer, and that he put my emotional well beeing and happyness high on the list of priorities?? I dont think so!! I dont feel the need to suffer to prove anything, I dont need to be "put in my place" by beeing made to suffer, I know where my place is, I know where it is because it is where I chose to be!! So why do so many feel suffering needs to be part of the deal??? This thread made me think a bit. Words like "Property, slave, suffer, being put in my place" are all words that ring true to me. However, the first thing that needs to be said to MagiksSlave is that if it works for you why care about others. I have often said that if you identify as a slave and your "Master" accepts you as his slave then you ARE a slave. Of course you might not be "the" slave for me, but slave you are nevertheless. No of course there are questions. Why do you need to suffer? Because it is easy to say, "I love you," and easy to say that you are a or "his" slave, but it is very hard to suffer for it. Suffering has always been a testament to being totally involved. There are religious people who flay themselves to show their devotion to G-d, and others who vow chastity, and still others who suffer by not eating. I think that others also find the act of suffering to be an elating one. Just as humiliation need not degrade the slave but can be given as a "gift" Being put in your place is another concept and one that sort of jibes with who is the Master and who is the slave? but I have gone on long enough. The simple answer as I see it is that each person's relationship is their own and that we all find our own way. Hopefully if the Master is skillful the slave learns and becomes more of what he needs as it taps places within her that she needs. Remember a synonym of Master is Teacher.

BoiJen -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 10:09:25 AM)
okay I may be a bit off key but here goes mine.. I don't suffer. I may be uncomfortable. I may not be happy all the time about doing something. I may not even want to do something. But I do whatever it is because I WANT to be here. Therefore...as it is my desire to be here and my want and needs are being met...even as a masochist...I do not suffer...despite my goddamned headaches. And I like pain...I don't always want it in the specific way She chooses to dish it out but I like it. Masochist are not who they are because they enjoy the pleasure another one gets from causing them pain. They are masochists because the enjoy the pain itself...says so right in the definition of the word... "Masochist: one who gets pleasure from pain"...I don't see anything about anyone else's enjoyment. I'm feeling fiesty!

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