RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?!

RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (Full Version)

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fairerthanshe -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 11:44:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave So why do so many feel suffering needs to be part of the deal??? ms "Because thats the way, uh-huh uh-huh, I like it. uh-huh. uh-huh." - Jim Carrie in Bruce Almighty Greetings, This says it all to me - because its what He likes. "Suffer for me" is the prime directive in our relationship. I'm not a masochist, however, the pleasure I get suffering for Him is incomparable to anything I have known previously. When I cry through non-injury induced pain, I may want to beg, I may want to spit in his face, I may want to stop, but I don't. I cry instead and when he bends low over me and looks into my tear filled eyes, I am whole and I see the pleasure he has gained because I have suffered for him. I mentioned non-injury induced pain because we do a lot of rope play. If something is not right with the ties, I am to stop the scene immediately. That's my responsibility to recognize when something is wrong. He does not ask me to suffer simply to suffer, but to please him. It's not that difficult for me to reconcile the difference in these two things and I am happy to do so. He wants things done his way, when he wants them, and he wants me to trust that if he says it needs to be done a certain way, then that is how it is to be done. well wishes ~ fairer than she

slaveish -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 12:18:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish The way I see it is that in a long-term D/s or M/s relationship, I will be expected to display my submission even when I am not in the mood to do so. Overcoming it, expressing my willingness to remain submissive, even when I don't want to, "suffering" through a task while remaining in my place is what I do and a reaffirmation of what I am. It is challenging, it can be maddening, and in the end it is ultimately satisfying. From speaking with Fox over the years I think this is very much how he sees it and I happen to agree though I also believe I have responsibility to both of us to try and make the positives far out number and out weigh the negetives. Absolutely agreed, tammyjo. I left it unsaid, thinking it was a given that the satisfaction is a two-way responsibility; but yeah, you were right (for various reasons) to add it in.

loverly -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 12:26:14 PM)
why is totally pleasing ones Master by being a slave to Him have to mean suffering? i find it joyous ! otherwise walk the other way! lol everyone has a choice.. either you desire to be that all for someOne and make Them happier than they ever thought possiable or you dont .. simple.. personally its a need for me not a want so being fullfilled is a goal to me only doing as my Master wishes can feed that for me. course i am not perfect and somethings i am not able to do due to phobias or age or what have You but .. all in all i believe a MAster understands that and is pleased at even the wish to totally please ! i would hope so anyway!

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 12:39:39 PM)
from reading the post i gather the op Ment breaking the sub is what most Dom's or Dommes refer to they use certain tools such as humiliation and other things to break a sub and rebuild them.. which i totally disagree with. Dom's and Dommes do not have a PhD in mental health and can end up really damaging someone mentally.. now in some of the other post they talked about suffering in a different way.. kinda like i work to please you or live to please that is OK and normal that is when true power exchange happens.. the web of connection so to speak

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 12:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Magik: I equate this kind of thinking to the same kind of mis-understandings some people can sometimes have about some other people using "Humiliation" in a BDSM relationship. I think the person in the post you quoted probably had a difference of opinion with their partner re: What kind of "kink" they were both "into". If I wound up with someone who wanted 24-7 watersports (as a submissive anyway, I am a Switch), I'd be lost. I don't want to do it, really. I just find it a little "squicky". Isn't that what "limits" are for? I think people need to discuss their limits with their partner (and abide by them, too). Define "suffering". Also, some people, truly are (consensual) Sadists (and some people are (consensual) masochists). Different strokes for different folks. If "Suffering" isn't what almost everyone here is probably after (in some context, using different "methods") - well then, what are any people all doing here with whips and chains in the first place at all? "Suffering" can feel pretty darned good, in the right context, that is, given the right partner. Misunderstandings of the use of Humiliation, for example, in a BDSM relationship, can seem, at times, to abound on these CM boards (especially among "newbies".) Personally - I love it, both as a submissive and as a Domme (I am a Switch). Some people think it's "cruel". It isn't supposed to be - it is supposed to feel good. If the people involved didn't truly appreciate it, I doubt they'd keep using it in their BDSM interactions with eachother. My take? They just don't "get" how good some really well done Humiliation can make me (or a partner) feel (although lately it's been rare, not "well done" - but that's only because I've been kinda busy, hehe.) And it can feel really good. Will they ever understand that? I don't really care that much, if they do, or not. I can like it (a lot), and I'll probably continue to like it. *But also, some people are just plain dysfunctional, and the think being treated poorly as a human being generally, is part of the D/s deal, and sometimes consequently that they are being mistreated at every turn (even if they're not). I find this to be just plain sad. Sometimes, though, they may genuinely be being (non-consensually) abused. In that case, I think they need to leave. - Susan What you are calling suffering I do not consider suffering, if you like beeing whiped then beeing whiped, while painfull to you is not suffering. Im here because I enjoy the pain and I enjoy giveing another controll over me, to me these things are not suffering!! PS: ill get to everyone els's replies later, Im beeing rushed out the door so dont think Im ingoring anyone!! [:)][;)][8D] ms

daddysliloneds -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 2:09:21 PM)
that idea is about as popular as 'to be a slave you must have no pride'[:'(]

mnottertail -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 2:11:59 PM)
if it is swallowed, it is all the more incredible.

fairerthanshe -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 2:40:50 PM)
Greetings Master Ron, Isn't that true of sooooo many things? [;)] well wishes ~ fairer than she

sleazybutterfly -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 3:10:15 PM)
To some being slapped is suffering, to me being slapped is an instant turn-on. To others having their nipples tortured is sweet bliss, to me..it hurts like hell and it makes me suffer. Why do I suffer? I suffer for him. I suffer because in my suffering he finds great pleasure. I suffer because I belong to him and I am his to do with as he wishes. I suffer because as his slave, that is my place if it pleases him. I suffer because I love him and I trust him with every part of myself. In that suffering, I find great pleasure (in service), along with the pain. I will never enjoy the act, it hurts, but I will always suffer if I know that it brings him what he desires. In doing that, I am able to fulfill something in myself..the need to serve him as his wishes, and to make him happy.

DarkDaddyZ -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 3:32:50 PM)
I believe that to some slaves, suffering is a need, sometimes a ritual....sometimes theraputic but I don't have stats to back that up, that's just what I feel based on my experience.

slavemaia -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 3:52:36 PM)
Personally i think suffering for the sake of slavery is alot of hooey. Maybe the idea comes from some Judeao/Christian brainwashing "he suffered for our sins" attitude. The only thing noble i find in suffering is if i'm suffering through something in order to do or be something better. For example, suffering through piano practice in order to be a better pianist. But suffering for the sake of suffering - OY. If i love and care for someone i DON'T want them to suffer, not the other way around. i agree about the erotic "suffering", which isn't suffering at all, it's just sensation.

abda -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:00:59 PM)
I couldn't have said it any better. That is exactly how I feel when it comes to being owned and treated as property. Kudos

Archer -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:01:41 PM)
I think the possition has been read wrongly several times since it rubs some folks the wrong way. My reading and restatement of the OP position is While all slavery is to some extent conditional, the test of how conditional is displayed through willingness to suffer. If you never test where the conditional aspect lies then you simply don't know for sure how conditional it is in reality, you might know theoreticly where the conditional part comes in but not the real point of conditionality. For some the theoretical point of withdrawl of consent is enough (I know they will serve me in all ways I ever ask based only on their word) for others, the point of withdrawl of consent is not something theoretical knowlledge will be enough. The OP, in my reading of it, was pointing to the fact that unless it is tested, it is only theory.

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:07:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen okay I may be a bit off key but here goes mine.. I don't suffer. I may be uncomfortable. I may not be happy all the time about doing something. I may not even want to do something. But I do whatever it is because I WANT to be here. Therefore...as it is my desire to be here and my want and needs are being met...even as a masochist...I do not suffer...despite my goddamned headaches. And I like pain...I don't always want it in the specific way She chooses to dish it out but I like it. Masochist are not who they are because they enjoy the pleasure another one gets from causing them pain. They are masochists because the enjoy the pain itself...says so right in the definition of the word... "Masochist: one who gets pleasure from pain"...I don't see anything about anyone else's enjoyment. I'm feeling fiesty! ((claps)) Thank you this is a lot of what Im trying to say, I dont see the everyda tasks of beeing a sub/slave suffering because this is the path we chose and we want to be here... I was talking about when perposly makeing a sub/slave suffer in order to show they are slaves.. We arent marter (Mourters??)(SP??)(LOL I give up you know what I mean.. I mean how many times have we seen it said that sub slaves arent marters, because its true (at least the way that i see it) ms

DiurnalVampire -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:08:03 PM)
Some slaves do need to suffer in order to serve. It is what fules them. For others, suffering would be a deal breaker and theyd be gone in an instant. Suffering is very relative. DV

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: loverly why is totally pleasing ones Master by being a slave to Him have to mean suffering? i find it joyous ! otherwise walk the other way! lol everyone has a choice.. either you desire to be that all for someOne and make Them happier than they ever thought possiable or you dont .. simple.. personally its a need for me not a want so being fullfilled is a goal to me only doing as my Master wishes can feed that for me. course i am not perfect and somethings i am not able to do due to phobias or age or what have You but .. all in all i believe a MAster understands that and is pleased at even the wish to totally please ! i would hope so anyway! Again this is very much along the lines of what im talking about, I dont suffer to be a slave because I love it it is what i am and what I chose to be!! it is when someone (A Master Dom or whatever) desides in order for me to be a real slave I must do something for them that would truely make me unhappy. To me truely beeing unhappy with something is the definition of suffering that I am usieng here in this thread if you arent truely unhappy doing something then that isnt what im talking about.. I dont view listening to your master and following his desistions even if they arent the desistions you may have wanted to make suffering, Not going to the movies on saterday when he wants you home is not suffering (this is just an example) Sleeping with another person of the same sex when you are straight and you find someone of the same sex totaly repulsive sexualy may be more of what im saying, or if you are monogomouse but your Master takes on another slave that may be suffering your Master shares you with someone and you dont want or like or are scared to be shared, that may be suffering. Any of those things would be true suffering for me and not things i feel i need to do to prove i am a slave (they arent nessiseraly limits but they are things that would hhurt me to do) Ok iv stoped makeing sence now so Ill stop LOL ms

MagiksSlave -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:22:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer I think the possition has been read wrongly several times since it rubs some folks the wrong way. My reading and restatement of the OP position is While all slavery is to some extent conditional, the test of how conditional is displayed through willingness to suffer. If you never test where the conditional aspect lies then you simply don't know for sure how conditional it is in reality, you might know theoreticly where the conditional part comes in but not the real point of conditionality. For some the theoretical point of withdrawl of consent is enough (I know they will serve me in all ways I ever ask based only on their word) for others, the point of withdrawl of consent is not something theoretical knowlledge will be enough. The OP, in my reading of it, was pointing to the fact that unless it is tested, it is only theory. Why test it?? Isnt testing rather imature?? i mean yes I would do many things that would make me suffer if Master asked me to, but knowing that I would is enough he doesnt have to make me actually do things that would upset me just to see if I really would, in fact if he did do that well then I dont really think he is a person I want ot be with... Just like any other testing, I dont think it is apropriate it is manipulative and childish and there is no need for it. I say Ill obay, then trust I will obay, if that trust isnt there then well it isnt the relationship I want to be in. ms

Archer -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:38:03 PM)
See now you are making a judgement about what someone else feels a need to do. "In't testing imature" Value judgement. Your declaration that you would do XYZ makes it only theoreticly true. For some knowing theoreticly is enough for others they need to know reality. Not needing the reality proven is fantasy based and thus not real. See how the judgement can be reversed on you????? (Note I'm not judgeing either way really, I'm mearly illustrating it's a Who's Ox is getting gored situation.)

Madderquoise -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 5:51:32 PM)
Is suffering required to be a slave? No, of course not. All that's required to be a slave is to submit to someone as their personal property. That's it, full stop. Everything else is just preferences, kinks, and contracts.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: To be a slave you must suffer, who the hell made this rule?! (8/1/2007 7:22:07 PM)
sounds like the kilgon right of passage to me lol i think understand what she means now. kinda of bonding process

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