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thetammyjo -> RE: CD'ers and submission (8/9/2007 8:28:25 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I'll agree I wonder why there's no female equivalent to the male cross-dresser (that isn't say, a Lesbian Butch person anyway) - I do wonder. I know females can dress in masculine clothing and nobody bats an eye (and I do find that curious, in and of itself, I admit). But - I am talking about someone who looks like they take steroids, lifts heavy weights a lot, almost shaves their head their hair is so short, and chomps on a man's cigar a good part of the time, for instance. I don't see many of those women around (if any).
- Susan
There used to be this equivalent in the past. There used to be a big stink about women wearing pants -- my mother wasn't allowed to do that when she went to school.
Then two things happened I think. Note these are not my personal opinions or beliefs merely what I have seen studying gender in history particular modern American history. A warning: it will be rambling and it may well offend folks who want to believe we live in gender and sex equality.
First function. As women did more work outside the home it became necessary in some jobs to look more masculine or to wear clothing that didn't interfere as much.
Then it became trendy. A Freudian would say that this was an example of women trying to get a taste of male power but grabbing on to symbols of masculinity. Maybe it was and maybe it is. But over time even these "men's clothing" were changed so that there are women's pants and men's pants -- some of this may be a matter of general body shape and need but I think it has to do with making it acceptable for women to wear these clothing and still be "feminine."
The problem then is the reverse. Society views women still in an inferior position thus men wearing women's clothing are not doing anything that makes social sense -- who wants to be inferior? Don't we all want to be strong and independent especially if you have a penis? Whether or not we like it or want to believe it, we are all aware of this idea, it's part of the cultural consciousness just like most stereotypes are race, religion, sex, gender and economic status.
To address Cloudboy's and PrincessinLatex's exchange it is also about sex. Yes, men are seen as sexualizing women's clothing. Why wouldn't they? We are still in a society which maintain or at least is fully aware of the old idea that men want sex and women have sex -- sex is something men get from women in other words. Women are supposed to be sexy so that men will want them. By extension then women's clothing are viewed as more sexy and as a society we encourage that by making it more allowable for greater variety in fabrics, colors and styles in women's clothing.
Men's sexuality is something we are supposed to be afraid of thus warnings to daughters about boys and harsher ratings for movies with male nudity versus female nudity. Thus the idea that men rape and women are victims and the promotion of this idea in almost every aspect of our culture. Tom and Fox have both cried because they have seen women cross the street from them or change their body language simply because they are male and therefore scary (this is their impression but I have seen and heard these attitudes from women and men).
Because there is so much weight given to clothing and makeup and other differences that we create to differentiate between what we as a society see as only two sexes and genders, I think it makes sense that people will be offended when someone crosses that line. Doesn't it make it healthy to be offended? No but it is a fact that it happens.
(the below part is my personal response)
As I said in my earliest post on this topic, I'm not offended by the crossing dressing but I can get offended by the motivations and the attitudes someone types when they cross dress. I can understand why someone would feel more submissive and more sexy given what I know and can see in the mainstream culture. But I do not have to accept that those stereotypes about male and female (and ignoring anything that doesn't fit into that box) are healthy to promote.
When someone cross dresses as what they think is a woman and then they go out and are in the top or dominant role, I feel empowered myself -- had a partner who did this. When someone tells society "I don't care what you think" and dresses as he wants without changing how he lives or focusing on sex or fetish or drawing attention to how he's dressed, I feel empowered as a human being. But when someone plays up the stereotypes that place women in a position of inferiority, submission, or pure sexuality, yeah, it can hurt my feelings as a woman who tries not to promote such stereotypes.
My hope is that some day everyone can just dress and act as feeling naturally without it being a fetish or being the center of attention or taking drugs and getting surgery or living double lives or fearing rejection of family and friends employers.
I don't think as a society we are there yet. I honestly do not believe that promoting the stereotypes helps us get there either.
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