RE: CD'ers and submission (Full Version)

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tobeshi -> RE: CD'ers and submission (8/11/2007 6:39:31 AM)

From yor bias it is dress-up for me it is part of who I am and has been for quite awhile.It is offer it a as a reason or as part of an explanation not as an excuse.
I would hope that you have read my opinion on humiliation and realize that I cannot find any way of equating crossdressing with that act. In fact I believe it just the opposite. I do not understand how my dressing would humiliate you or any other biological female unless it was done in such poor taste or in a way as to be degrading to the gender. For me it is not done to be humiliating to anyone. Now, some of the acts done while dressed may be considered humiliating but it was by her instruction and for her pleasure. If you read my bio you will see that I was introduced to this by a GG who thouroughly enjoyed it. I learned to enjoy it too and that is my  reference point  from where I draw my conclusions. Neither one of us found it insulting , humilating or degrading, we had fun with it.
Due to my current life circumstances I cannot yet walk the walk or talk the talk, in fact I`m not sure that I ever will be able too. Part of the reason I use this site is to see if there may be an opportunity to further expand my understanding and hopefully try it with someone to see if it is the lifestyle I want for my retirement.
Throughout my life`s profession I`ve mentored, instructed and worked in developing many, many individuals towards their specific career and personal goals.  I am very proud that some of them chose me a  role model and that they have tried to imitate me as they think I am. I see nothing negative of having heros throughout ones life, or raising the bar and striving for excelence in any endevour that is undertaken. Admittedly I did not watch the video clip.....Right now it is hard enough to try and make time just to follow this thread.
I think that the only similarity between the race and cossdressing analogy is the preconcieved prejudices that many individuals express and that they continue to judge the whole group of people rather that the individual. In reading some of these posts I doubt very much that their opinion is based on first hand information or experience but rather is just jumping on the bandwagon of the popular consensus
Ellen has worked hard and I believe has earned respect.



thetammyjo -> RE: CD'ers and submission (8/11/2007 8:35:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhythmboi

quote:

Thus the crossdresser is not actively demeaning women through his dressing, but expressing something in the only way the culture enables him to express it, in that he has no other "words" wherewith to say it?


But this is all tied up in a cycle of what influences what. If we didn't live in a society that distributed power inequitably between genders, would crossdressing even have any appeal in the first place?


Thanks! You lead me to the question I was going to put in that earlier post, but didnt have time!

It comes from a psychometric test to identify various types of transgender behaviours, and its phrased something like -
"if tomorrow morning a law was decreed that everyone must wear the exact same clothes - blue boiler suit for instance), what would you think?"

The available answers were along the lines of
a) it would be OK, but boring
b) that would be great; dressing wouldnt be important any more
b) it would be horrible; I'd miss crossdressing

E


*blinks at the question*

That's a strange question.

How would answers different between males and females of different gender identities if you reworded the c answer to remove the cross dressing idea all together?

I think some folks like variety, some like a lot of variety, and some probably couldn't care much less as long as it is functional. Our culture tries to restrict what is acceptable for what it considers to be only two genders directly tied to two sexes.

Why does not wanting to fit into a small box equal wanting to cross dress or wanting to be the opposite sex or gender?

Doesn't that just buy into the cultural idea that there are only two sexes and only two directly tied genders?

Maybe it's the radical feminist in me but I think that dualism is total BS. Human beings are far more complex than this.



LadyEllen -> RE: CD'ers and submission (8/11/2007 1:26:15 PM)

Hi TJ

Well, the question is drawn from a test which supposedly discerns crossdressers from transsexuals (and I may have not got it right or complete), so it is predicated on the idea that the respondent is one or the other. For me I dont know which answer I'd pick - it wouldnt be OK and it would be boring! I guess the idea is that crossdressers would pick C.

I agree with you that society is far too dualistic, and not only in terms of gender expression but in almost every facet. Even racism can be traced to this dualistic model; "white = right, other = wrong". The thing is though that even where in a field like race we have made enormous progress to break away from dualistic thought, it still remains in the background because I feel, it is integral to the culture. On gender there is far less progress away from dualism. I'm afraid I yet again have to blame this on Christianity, which has at its core a dualistic model of the cosmos, and it is this which has informed our cultural model for centuries. And for those who wish to break down that dualism into pluralism, there is naught but condemnation because regardless of our rejection it remains in the background. Following a religion like Asatru makes me evil to many, for instance - for if I am not Christian, then I am Satanist in their eyes.

Whether we buy into it or not, the culture is the culture. For now at least.

E



LadyEllen -> RE: CD'ers and submission (8/11/2007 1:49:18 PM)

I note my name has been brought up a couple of times, and thanks for the compliments. I'd just like to point out though that I'm not exactly a cross dresser! Yes, I was born male but I'm not one - I was pretty bleedin' hopeless at trying to be one in fact. But I am natural at being female - fitting into the spectrum of whatever that is - 'cause I'm not sure what it is either! Natural, in that there's no effort on my part and others take me for female anyway - and always have done, or assumed me to have been a gay male. All very confusing, as I definitely wasnt gay!

Well, things came to a head and I was diagnosed as transsexual. I transitioned, went on hormone treatments and so on. And everything was right with the world - finally I fitted somewhere.

Now there is the danger of assuming that there is a dualistic model at work here again - crossdresser or transsexual. The thing is that there is a division, but its not quite as simple as that. As I think we have found from multiple discussions there is huge variety in crossdressing, and there is a similar variety in the transsexual side too - some for whom surgery is essential and some for whom it is not for instance.

But there is also the danger of assuming that there is a continuous spectrum at work, with transsexuals undergoing surgery being described often as having "gone the whole way" by crossdressers. This is a basic misunderstanding I feel, based on the idea that all transgender behaviour is predicated on the same motives, which it isnt.

A simple division I find is to say that the crossdresser transitions temporarily for psychological reasons and is otherwise happy to be male with a functioning penis. The transsexual meanwhile transitions permanently for social reasons and is happy to be taken as female and cares not for/ rejects a functioning penis. The confusion arises perhaps from the fantasist crossdressers who find the idea of permanent transition and castration an enjoyable sexual fantasy, as well as the apparent similarity in behaviour to the casual observer.

E



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