RE: "Submission is a Gift"

RE: "Submission is a Gift" (Full Version)

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NihilusZero -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 10:59:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover And it's any more realistic in M/s relationships? At least in theory, yes. Without getting into a deabte about the descriptive differences and nuances between "subs" and "slaves", the latter group normally is presumed to be towards the greater pole of the 'liberties surrendered' continuum. At least in those relationships, it (to me) becomes more probable to encounter dynamics and regulations that place honoring a vow of servitude beyond all else, making an escape hatch a non-issue (in terms of whether it is available, not whether the desire for one could spawn). So...I would say it's more "realistic" because I would think people devoted to the greater extreme are more likely than others to be seeking situations where they are not permitted to exit. I think I can still sense your point about how it may not change the possibility of the human propensity to want to backtrack, but in this situation it would strike more akin to spending money with credit cards beyond what you can actually pay. Sure, at such a point one would wish to leave the monetary contractual agreements but they are still inevitably bound to them no matter what.

CalifChick -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:00:07 PM)
Oh, John darling, you know you make me swoooooooooon... too bad about requirement number 4, though. sigh Cali (wonders why no one appreciates a girl who can use the term "double-clutch" in a sentence... correctly)

Rover -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:01:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero At least in theory, yes. Ok, let's see how the theory holds up in practice. She wants to leave and requests to be released. He says no. She's determined to leave. Now what? Does OJ get a cellmate? John

Rover -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:04:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Oh, John darling, you know you make me swoooooooooon... too bad about requirement number 4, though. sigh Cripes, who would think that anyone would have read that far??? John

NihilusZero -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:08:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero At least in theory, yes. Ok, let's see how the theory holds up in practice. She wants to leave and requests to be released. He says no. She's determined to leave. Now what? Does OJ get a cellmate? John Trying to argue the legality issue into an emotional bond can be a tricky thing. Laws do not encompass every ethical dilemma properly, as most of us (by mere virtue of our involvement in such relationships) know. This could really get into a nitty gritty discussion all its own as to whether ethical constructs could/should support the consequences of the decision to make such a vow. I'll yield to (for the moment, and the sake of this thread) the point that in certain relationships and dynamics, there is a greater expectation of likelihood for a stipulation that decrees that the slave "should not be" permitted to exit of her/his own volition. That was the point of my addressing his use of the term "sub" rather than "slave".

Daddysredhead -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:08:46 PM)
~FR~ I haven't read any of the other posts here. This is what I wrote a long time ago re: this "gift..." "my submission to Master began as my gift to Him, and developed into freedom that i gave myself by becoming His slave..." I never gave people much respect, much less submission, until this relationship. Now, it's natural... and it all works for us. He is as respectful of me as I am Him.

CalifChick -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:08:55 PM)
Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils. Cali

NihilusZero -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:10:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils. Cali Tssk, tssk. Twue subs would not have the box pre-painted anything until the Twue Dom picked the designer color of his/her choice.

Daddysredhead -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:10:46 PM)
Do we use tissue paper or bubble wrap to make sure our submission doesn't break inside the box, Cali? Remember, "contents may shift during transit." ~ Red (lacquered box)

OrionTheWolf -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:12:02 PM)
Submission is something that occurs in the presence of a dominant personality. If thought about, it is not a conscious thing, it just occurs when those with a submissive personality are mixed with the proper dominant personality. If it is something that is consciously given, then it is being subordinate and not submissive. So how does one give something that is naturally drawn from them? quote: ORIGINAL: DawnFire I have just got to know, what is everyone's problem with the phrase, "Submission is a gift". I see it several ways... 1. It could be used as a really bad excuse to getting out of something a submissive didn't want to do, IE "My submission is a gift, I could take it away." But then it wouldn't be a gift exactly, it'd be more like a loan, so "gift" still doesn't bother me. 2. It could be that one might see submission as a personality trait, and therefore have a problem with seeing it as a gift. If that's the case, we would have to define what submission means in each case. IE the gift of submission might be the "giving" of oneself over to their dominants control. -In which case I still have no problem with the term 3. Submission as a gift may be seen as making the act of submission (a verb) into a noun... and the grammer of it all might really bother some people at a deeper level. Really I'm just grasping at straws here... I'd really like to know. -Dawn

CalifChick -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:12:22 PM)
Zero, you don't get to dictate the terms of the gift until it is received, then it's too late... *otherwise, it wouldn't be a gift.* pause for the irony to really flow over you Red - bubble wrap all the way. Cali

Rover -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:13:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils. *Holy floggers, Batman. You actually know the Ceremony of the Ancients (those that came before* the Old Guard). I'm impressed. John**

Rover -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:14:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Only us twue subs who offer our gift of submission in a white lacquered box tied with a red ribbon that we've starched into crisp tendrils. Cali Tssk, tssk. Twue subs would not have the box pre-painted anything until the Twue Dom picked the designer color of his/her choice. But the white is primer, awaiting the final choice of finish color. John

NihilusZero -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:19:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Zero, you don't get to dictate the terms of the gift until it is received, then it's too late... *otherwise, it wouldn't be a gift.* What you are talking about, miss, is a "surprise". What's the point of a "gift" if you aren't giving the receiver what s/he whats, hmmm? continues to wag finger

Rover -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:19:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Submission is something that occurs in the presence of a dominant personality. If thought about, it is not a conscious thing, it just occurs when those with a submissive personality are mixed with the proper dominant personality. If it is something that is consciously given, then it is being subordinate and not submissive. So how does one give something that is naturally drawn from them? Well, there's submission and then there's submission. By that I mean, it's possible to have two personalities draw out characteristics of the other, just as you say. But that does not necessarily result in a power exchange relationship. I'm sure there are submissives that "feel" submissive around you, but they're not yours and you have no intention of making them yours. For that to happen requires a conscious decision on both your parts. John

NihilusZero -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:20:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover But the white is primer, awaiting the final choice of finish color. Ah! Clearly you have gone through this process before. Finally, someone with experience in here!

CalifChick -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:22:57 PM)
Okay, you're right. Cali (smiles and nods and smiles and nods.... wondes if anybody is buying this)

Rover -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:27:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: Rover But the white is primer, awaiting the final choice of finish color. Ah! Clearly you have gone through this process before. Finally, someone with experience in here! As noted previously, it is the secret Ceremony of the Ancients. And now for the sacrilege of having spoken of it publicly, we must all take our lives on the first new moon. I believe the scrolls say that the submissive goes first. John

NihilusZero -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:27:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick .... wonders if anybody is buying this) Whoa, whoa, whoa... You want to charge people for your gifts, now?!? Is this your version of 'small print'?? pats self on head for unexpected, yet rather nifty use of the subtle double entendre

CalifChick -> RE: "Submission is a Gift" (12/5/2008 11:32:10 PM)
Yeah, well, fiddlefuck. I said you guys were right, but it's never enough, is it. Gift after gift after gift... softly stifles a sob, lip trembling, a single beautiful tear slides down her cheek Cali (wonders if we need a volcano, or if the special koolaid will be good enough)

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