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The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:09:48 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		As too often occurs, ego surfaces whenever an individual feels threatened. It is a defense mechanism, to bloster will power and inspire action.

It is also a security blanket, lulling us into believing no improvement is required (not knowing enough is also a form of threat to the individual).

However, it is my belief that ego should play no part in bdsm, especially no role in the decisions of a dom/domme/mistress/master.

From my point of view, these individuals have a responsibility to ensure everyone benefits in a manner appropriate for the individual.

I don't see this leaving much room for ego or selfishness.

True, there are other forms of relationship where there might be little pressure to dispense with ego: one night stands, casual settings, etc.

But I do not see ego benefitting any long-term relationship. More likely the relationship will break up as a result of arguments spawned by fits of ego.

What do you think?
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:12:44 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think ego should play a part of everything everyone does.  Ego isn't bad- ego is sense of self.  We should all have a thorough awareness of self, appreciation of self, and understanding how self interacts with non-self.

Now, when discussing something like being egotistical, or arrogant, or trying to prove somethingt o yourself, then you get into problems. But those are all signs of LACK of ego to begin with.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Bobkgin)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:27:42 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think ego should play a part of everything everyone does.  Ego isn't bad- ego is sense of self.  We should all have a thorough awareness of self, appreciation of self, and understanding how self interacts with non-self.

Now, when discussing something like being egotistical, or arrogant, or trying to prove somethingt o yourself, then you get into problems. But those are all signs of LACK of ego to begin with.


We agree on the concepts, Lucky.

We disagree about the labels.

I am very much in favour of self-awareness and personal growth.

I consider ego to be an immature substitute for self-awareness (like baby teeth are an immature substitute for adult teeth).

As self-awareness grows, ego diminishes. Where ego is inherently selfish, self-awareness is inherently selfless.

Your labels for these concepts may differ.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 8/3/2007 7:31:29 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:29:39 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I agree.

A man with a healthy ego (and not the type with ego- compensatation) is a good choice and would make a emotionally-healthy Master (or sub).  Why anyone would dislike a strong ego/self, is beyond me.  

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:35:05 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		It would be more useful to make the distinction between ego, and egotism/mania.
Ego is, as pointed out a natural concept... anyone who claims to be without one is (hopefully) mistaken.

EGO:
"...the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ego

(in reply to came4U)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:35:42 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
As self-awareness grows, ego diminishes. Where ego is inherently selfish, self-awareness is inherently selfless.

Then what do you think about someone like me who considers herself extremely self aware AND extremely full of ego? 

Why do you think self awareness is inherently selfish?  I think it's one of the most selfish things a person can be- and that's a GOOD thing.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Bobkgin)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:49:01 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Self esteem is holding one's self up as an object of admiration.... self awareness is understanding one's self, and one's place in the real universe.

So for purposes of WIITWD, perhaps self awareness would be a good thing, self esteem not so good, and egotism, even less desirable.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:53:27 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
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Status: offline 		It's my limited layman's understanding that an individual without an ego (a theoretical state of being that's not actually possible) would be unable to perceive reality.  I'm not sure that's a practical objective.
 
Is it possible that you're redefining ego in some way?
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Bobkgin)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 7:58:53 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I agree Rover.  I also understand the value in "going beyond ego" and letting go of ego being a powerful and wonderful experience.  But usually that's for a short period or learning how to live simultaneously with and without ego.  But I don't think that's what the OP is getting at here.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:01:31 AM   
Driver1961


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Hecdips His lid

References please guys or we will hit circles.   Self-awareness making selflessness not SELFISHNESS makes alot of sense to me.   However this distinction from ego state is relative to whose interpretation of judgement- Piaget's theories but who makes the judgement and what is it based upon? (My rhetorical)  Answer? -One's self judgement and a panel of pre-judged 'self awares' who then can question the candidate and assess their replies and their actions?

And so the circle continues????? (laughing)

Warm regards to all, Driver. (doing some cross stitching at the keyboard)

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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:04:12 AM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Are you saying Dom type people cant have ego? Then should I take this to mean Sub type people can? I am sure glad Im a sub for today then! Yay!  Oh and by the way, I think you might be new or have a new name or something. For some reason I keep reading it like Bobkin. lololol Its kinda cute really. Look! Its bobkin! lololol Sorry if i offend Bobkin. Cant stop my ego from saying silly things today, cant stop! Cant stop Cant stop! 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:21:42 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

It would be more useful to make the distinction between ego, and egotism/mania.
Ego is, as pointed out a natural concept... anyone who claims to be without one is (hopefully) mistaken.

EGO:
"...the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ego


hmm, according to my old Websters, the second definition for "ego" is "egotism: an exagerrated sense of self importance"

Got to love the english language for handing us so many meanings for each word ;-)

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:28:14 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Same with the link provided. Increasingly in popular usage, ego seems to be interchangeable with egotism. 

For purposes of discussion is there no place for an inflated sense of self esteem, or selfishness in WIITWD?

(in reply to Bobkgin)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:29:52 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
As self-awareness grows, ego diminishes. Where ego is inherently selfish, self-awareness is inherently selfless.

Then what do you think about someone like me who considers herself extremely self aware AND extremely full of ego? 


I think we are using different labels to describe the same thing.

Either that, or one side of your statement is incorrect (and I do not presume to suggest this is the case, only a theoretical possibility).

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Why do you think self awareness is inherently selfish?  I think it's one of the most selfish things a person can be- and that's a GOOD thing.


"selfless".

I think of the concept of "self-awareness" as a developing awaress of our true selves, as opposed to identifying with ego constructs like personality.

As we become more self-aware, the more readily we recognize our common cause with other humans and life forms in general. We become more compassionate, more thoughtful of others, more generous in spirit, more connected with others.

In a word, we become more selfless, less selfish.

Bear in mind, Lucky, I am of the opinion we use different labels for the same desirable qualities. My use of mine is not intended to invalidate yours.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:32:42 AM   
Driver1961


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		He dips;

I think a sub inflates everything in subspace.   Is that psychosis ego or just plain great spacing?

_____________________________

Dance as though nobody is watching!

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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:36:14 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

I think of the concept of "self-awareness" as a developing awaress of our true selves, as opposed to identifying with ego constructs like personality.

As we become more self-aware, the more readily we recognize our common cause with other humans and life forms in general. We become more compassionate, more thoughtful of others, more generous in spirit, more connected with others.

In a word, we become more selfless, less selfish.


On what basis do you conclude that selflessness is the only outcome arising from self-awareness?  That's a preconceived outcome that would invalidate any individuality.  Something that seems rather contrary to observation and experience
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Bobkgin)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:36:18 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
As we become more self-aware, the more readily we recognize our common cause with other humans and life forms in general. We become more compassionate, more thoughtful of others, more generous in spirit, more connected with others.

You seem to view these concepts as exclusionary towards eachother.  Less of one equals more of the other. 

For me, they are completely complimentary, and my experience at least has been that both are necessary for healthy relationships.  The more of both I have, the better.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Bobkgin)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:38:31 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Same with the link provided. Increasingly in popular usage, ego seems to be interchangeable with egotism. 

For purposes of discussion is there no place for an inflated sense of self esteem, or selfishness in WIITWD?


Role-playing?

That's the only place I can think of (who hasn't wanted to play Snidely Whiplash from time to time ;-)

In other words, it can be faked, but I don't see how it can work long term if those feelings are genuine.

The selfishness that is intrinsic to these concepts would exclude any health concerns for the sub/slave.

Even if not all concerns were dismissed, certainly a degree of cavalier disregard would result.

Ever seen that work long term?

Seems to me long-term Tops balance their own desries against the needs of their sub/slaves. If a sub/slave is ill, a good top would forego activities until the sub/slave was well again.

Not a selfish Top.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:40:58 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		That had occured to me as well...
Actors have a well desereved reputation for inflated egos and perhaps their skill requires it.. so a moderately egotistical role player could throw themselves into the 'scene' with more panche.

Otherwise, balance and awareness are very often 'good things'.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 8/3/2007 8:41:43 AM >

(in reply to Bobkgin)
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RE: The role of Ego in bdsm (o.O) - 8/3/2007 8:43:25 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I'm in agreement with LA here.  Somehow you've come to the conclusion that selfishness and selflessness are mutually exclusive, as if it's realistic that any being could be entirely selfless or entirely selfish.  Reality dictates that merely surviving in society requires that everyone have some of both, though those percentages may vary from individual to individual.
 
I suppose the only exceptions I can think of are the clinically antisocial, who may not have the capacity to harbor any selflessness.  But then, I'm not a mental health professional so I would defer to their learned opinion on the subject.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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