Twue Punishment (Full Version)

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MsBearlee -> Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:00:07 AM)

Okay, I've been spending too much time in the Off-Topic board I think...I came up with this thought:
 
The US is one of the few countries left which carries out the uncivilized practice of punishment by death.  Personally...I think it's just too expensive a punishment (for us I mean) and rather think corporal punishment EARLY in a person's career-path-to-crime might be the more civilized idea.  Seems to me this is done in China, too...and don't they have far less crime there? 
 
The link to a clip (it's adult, you'll have to say you're one) shows how humanly punishment can be dealt out, and ya know...it's something I'd like to do to a few idiots I've read here; but that's just me talking.
 
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=whip+penalize
 
Seriously, why is it we'll put people to death after YEARS spent in prison, most often for the final deed a bad person’s lifetime of offenses, but find something as simple as spanking the bad-one’s butt horrific?  I think it might change more than one person’s career choice, as long as it was done early-on.  Yanno?

I wonder what Michael Fay is doin these days...(course, they did go easy on him; the little punk said it was like a bloody nose!  With a father like his, perhaps he continued on his career-path; but I bet he stays out of China!)  Ha!

B



Level -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:19:58 AM)

Fay was caned in Singapore, Bearlee; I'm not sure if China does the same thing or not.
 
I don't support the death penalty, and I do support whipping some ass as a form of correction. [;)]



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:22:24 AM)

China executes more people a year than all of the countries with the death penalty combined.  Their crime rate is hard to determine, because the Chinese don't release true reports on it to the public.  They use the death penalty for a multitude of offenses. 

I don't think corporal punishment would deter anyone from committing a crime here.  Corporal punishment was used often when I was in school, and I don't remember ever learning anything from the experience.  I can remember getting it for smoking in school more than once.  Guess what?   I still smoke to this day. 



MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:27:34 AM)

 

< ~ ~ ~  Geographically Challenged!
 
 
Thank you for that correction, Level.  [:)]
 
Yeah, I don't support the death penalty either...  Yup, I believe in spanking...even for children.  And no, I do not believe in abuse; there IS a difference.  
 
Still, I wonder why it is that we see canings as 'savage'...but we put people to death?  When and why did we stop spanking the bad boys and girls?  Really, if administered early on...wouldn't it be a deterent?  Hell, jail for some is a freakin' holiday; not to mention what they learn in there!
 
B



Level -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:31:51 AM)

lol, you're welcome, good lady.
 
For some, spanking is a deterrent, for some, not. It can be a useful tool for some.
 
Now, I do see caning and spanking as very different [:D]



Satyr6406 -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:34:02 AM)

Well, here's one where Level and I disagree (respectfully, of course).
 
I support the death penalty and for two very specific reasons:
 
1) There is a certain "class" of criminals that will never be rehabilitated; rapists, child molesters, paid, cold-blooded murderers, etc. In the past, society, itself kind of "shunned" these people (even after their prison terms) and ostracized them (and warned their children and neighbors off) and, by so doing, effectively "removed them" from society.
 
Unfortunately, we know longer have the where-with-all to do that, anymore and like it or not, the cost of an EXECUTION is NOT more than a life time of supporting a person for whom society MUST protect itself. Those of you screaming about costs of trials, appeals, etc.? Just eliminate some of the middle procedures. Make each death penalty conviction automatically reviewed by the Supreme Court. Case closed (pun intended).
 
2) No matter what anyone says to the contrary, leaving out the hardened criminal and the "mafia hitmen", I believe that there are some people who commit these crimes who might think twice (and just long enough to cool off) if they knew that their lives would be forfeit, if they carried out their deepest, darkest thoughts. I know it's true of me.
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael



cuddleheart50 -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:37:24 AM)

For some, spanking is a deterrent
 
or pleasure..[:D]
 
 



Estring -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:53:50 AM)

I don't understand the belief that the death penalty is uncivilized. To state that if you murder someone you forfeit your right to live, seems to me an affirmation of the value of life. To purposely take a life means you pay the ultimate price.
As for caning, it may deter some from crime, but even jail time presently doesn't prevent many criminals from being repeat offenders.



Level -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:53:56 AM)

Good morning, Michael. I do agree that the death penalty deters some, and I certainly understand those that support it, but I hate the idea of killing to punish. Put the bastards on a chain-gang, no TV, no cigs, no lifting weights, work their ass off, 6 days a week. And do away with early release for a lot of these people.



Level -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:55:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

For some, spanking is a deterrent
 
or pleasure..[:D] 


We knew you'd show up....... [:D]



MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 11:12:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Good morning, Michael. I do agree that the death penalty deters some, and I certainly understand those that support it, but I hate the idea of killing to punish. Put the bastards on a chain-gang, no TV, no cigs, no lifting weights, work their ass off, 6 days a week. And do away with early release for a lot of these people. 


Yeahhhhhhhhhh, what he said!  Like I said, jail for some is a freakin' holiday; why on earth are they watching TV and surfin' the net when they could be out repairing bridges?   I agree whole heartedly...work the bastards!
 
AND...I believe they should be educated.  Okay...maybe I'm a softie here, but I think education would help a lot of criminals move toward rehabilitation.  I'm not talking college degree, necessarily; but at least high-school level and most certainly a trade.  As it is now, what they learn now is just to be better criminals!
 
B



BlueCollar -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 11:19:25 AM)

I'm against the Death Penalty, partly based on my religious beliefs that we shouldn't be killing each other - no exceptions, but also from the point of view that any system with complexities on the same scale as the justice system can't possibly be correct in laying blame 100% of the time.  We now know of many individuals who have been executed by the state that were proven innocent afterwards or who have had serious doubt cast over their guilty verdict.  If the state kills an innocent person, who is punished in return for that crime?

I'm as anti-crime as any reasonable person is, but I do not find any valid argument for the death penalty. 



MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 11:33:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueCollar

I'm against the Death Penalty, partly based on my religious beliefs that we shouldn't be killing each other - no exceptions, ...

<bolding is mine> 


Bravo!  While it is likely we disagree in there somewhere...I appreciate your consistency.  I've always wondered how it is so many people are so radically pro-life (read that: anti-abortionists), yet are perfectly happy killing killers.  Odd, in my book.
 
And... welcome to the boards, Blue; nice profile, too.
 
Beverly



BlueCollar -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 12:06:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee
Bravo!  While it is likely we disagree in there somewhere...I appreciate your consistency.  I've always wondered how it is so many people are so radically pro-life (read that: anti-abortionists), yet are perfectly happy killing killers.  Odd, in my book.
 
And... welcome to the boards, Blue; nice profile, too.
 
Beverly


No need to beat around the bush here, MsBearlee, but you're talking about the beliefs of many conservative Christian fundementalists.  I too find it EXTREMELY hypcritical to identify oneself as a strict adherrant to the Christian faith, yet have no qualms in pushing certain political or social agendas that blatantly go against the teachings and doctrines of the church and Jesus or God himself.  It's more than odd though, it's downright frightening at times.



Stephann -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 1:34:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

I don't understand the belief that the death penalty is uncivilized. To state that if you murder someone you forfeit your right to live, seems to me an affirmation of the value of life. To purposely take a life means you pay the ultimate price.
As for caning, it may deter some from crime, but even jail time presently doesn't prevent many criminals from being repeat offenders.


I suppose the issue isn't if someone actually murders someone, but rather we go to great lengths to acknowledge that justice isn't always blind and we'd rather let ten murderers live than kill one innocent person. 

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=412&scid=6

I've no problem with the use of the death penalty, in circumstances where guilt is clear and obvious.  My problem stems from the motivations our society has to make use of it, and the clear lack of ability our government has to ensure that only guilty people are executed.   Essentially, I think there are better uses of these men; ironic that we are willing to kill them, but not allow them to voluntarily participate in research studies.  Eye for an eye doesn't work.  Period.

Stephan



MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 1:41:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueCollar

No need to beat around the bush here, MsBearlee, but you're talking about the beliefs of many conservative Christian fundementalists.  I too find it EXTREMELY hypcritical to identify oneself as a strict adherrant to the Christian faith, yet have no qualms in pushing certain political or social agendas that blatantly go against the teachings and doctrines of the church and Jesus or God himself.  It's more than odd though, it's downright frightening at times. 


Yeah, I have a brother who identifies as a Christian...we've had plenty of discussions about the difference in religion and the teachings of Christ (or any other religious icon).  It seems to me the so-called fundementalists (of any religion) always miss this part.
 
B



BlueCollar -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 1:51:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee
Yeah, I have a brother who identifies as a Christian...we've had plenty of discussions about the difference in religion and the teachings of Christ (or any other religious icon).  It seems to me the so-called fundementalists (of any religion) always miss this part.
 
B


Oh, no doubt about it.  But I would go one step further and say that ANY extremism or  fundementalism - secular or otherwise, is always an issue of concern.  I personally find that the more radical the doctrine in in any institution, the more chances it will lead to conflict.  Take the atrocities of Stalin or Pol Pot, for example.  These guys were responsible for more deaths than Hitler and the holocaust, yet they were extremist secularist.  So I think we must be careful not too assume that religious belief is the only social dynamic that can be used to justify violence and marginalisation.  Secular institutions are just as guilty.



Estring -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 2:14:10 PM)

I fully acknowledge that in a few instances, there is a possibility that some innocent person may be put to death wrongly. I wonder if those against the death penalty would acknowledge that their belief is probably responsible for more innocents dying than my position is. How many people are killed by murderers serving time in prison or by murderers who were released from prison after serving a certain amount of time or even escaping? I would bet that that number is much larger.
 



Bearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 2:15:57 PM)

Good point, Blue.  I had to go look up the definition of "fundementalism"  (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism)
and found this: 

Fundamentalism:
1: a: often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching   b: the beliefs of this movement   c: adherence to such beliefs

2: a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles.
 
I had no idea it could be a political principle.  Thank you (sometimes I find my lack of education soooooooo embarrassing).
 
Beverly



Satyr6406 -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 2:56:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Bravo!  While it is likely we disagree in there somewhere...I appreciate your consistency.  I've always wondered how it is so many people are so radically pro-life (read that: anti-abortionists), yet are perfectly happy killing killers.  Odd, in my book.
 
Beverly


As an "Anti-abortionist" and a "supporter" of the death penalty, I can tell you there's no inconsistancy.
 
One is an innocent whose only "crime" is the fact that their parents think they'd be too much of an inconvenience.
 
The other is a raping, child-molesting, killing-for-hire piece of shit who IS an inconvenience.
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael



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