RE: Killing to... Remove

RE: Killing to... Remove (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

Level -> RE: Killing to... Remove (8/4/2007 7:46:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari quote: ORIGINAL: Level Good morning, Michael. I do agree that the death penalty deters some, and I certainly understand those that support it, but I hate the idea of killing to punish. Put the bastards on a chain-gang, no TV, no cigs, no lifting weights, work their ass off, 6 days a week. And do away with early release for a lot of these people. Well... If "LIFE" truly meant that, rather than being mere "newspeak" ... and the Condemned could be placed in some context such that they could be made societally useful ... then I would heartily support such an alternative. Sadly, the aforementioned not being Reality at present... 'Termination' does have a chilling effect upon 'recidivism'. Caveat: Were it that laws that condemn be rational and reasonable, which in my perception they presently are Not. Perhaps the evil in this equation has more to do with the ubiquitness of 'society' in context No open spaces left for the 'misfits' Society needs to make reality that way, then, kiyari. Life should mean life. Not sure what you meant on the remainder, re: ubiquitness; if the misfits had a quiet hole to climb in, maybe they wouldn't do the damage that they do? Perhaps.

kiyari -> RE: Killing to... Remove (8/4/2007 7:50:14 PM)
My personal take, self-identifying among the 'misfits', is: society is a horrid construct, necessitated by the apparent 'natural' inclination among we 'humankind', to play King-of-the-Hill in earnest and hard-ball in pursuit of 'wealth-and-power', however defined.

MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 7:51:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari quote: ORIGINAL: MsBearlee ...Like I said, jail for some is a freakin' holiday; why on earth are they watching TV and surfin' the net when they could be out repairing bridges? I agree whole heartedly...work the bastards! AND...I believe they should be educated. Okay...maybe I'm a softie here, but I think education would help a lot of criminals move toward rehabilitation. I'm not talking college degree, necessarily; but at least high-school level and most certainly a trade. As it is now, what they learn now is just to be better criminals! B In my (thankfully) limited experience, there ARE those among us, who have no conscience ... who genuinely can not recognize their wrong-doing (or who genuinely Do Not Care) Such persons are quite beyond 'rehabilitation'. I couldn't agree more...but, in that instance I was discussing the less nasty ones. Regardless of the deterrents, some people are gonna be lifers (or dead, as it stands now), but I was speaking of younger criminals who might be turned down a more appropriate career path. B

Level -> RE: Killing to... Remove (8/4/2007 7:56:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari My personal take, self-identifying among the 'misfits', is: society is a horrid construct, necessitated by the apparent 'natural' inclination among we 'humankind', to play King-of-the-Hill in earnest and hard-ball in pursuit of 'wealth-and-power', however defined. So, society, and the way it's designed, helps create some of the problem people? Am I getting closer? [:D]

Satyr6406 -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 8:14:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bearlee quote: ORIGINAL: Masternslave07 quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 quote: ORIGINAL: MsBearlee Bravo! While it is likely we disagree in there somewhere...I appreciate your consistency. I've always wondered how it is so many people are so radically pro-life (read that: anti-abortionists), yet are perfectly happy killing killers. Odd, in my book. As an "Anti-abortionist" and a "supporter" of the death penalty, I can tell you there's no inconsistancy. One is an innocent whose only "crime" is the fact that their parents think they'd be too much of an inconvenience. The other is a raping, child-molesting, killing-for-hire piece of shit who IS an inconvenience. It is a strange world when your morals are questioned because you are happy to put a murderer to death, but believe a fetus who has harmed nobody deserves to live. Strange indeed. Had either of you managed to quote my ENTIRE post where I responded to Blue, you would have included the reference to religious beliefs against killing; killing without exception. I think if you are going to play here, you should pay more attention. While I was not questioning anybody's morals; I sometimes question logic...and was applauding his. Thank you very much... Beverly And I wasn't speaking to morals, my dear. I quoted enough of your context to answer. Morals be damned. I was giving you a logical reason why I can be pro death penalty and anti-infanticide. You're welcome, Michael

Stephann -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 8:34:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring I fully acknowledge that in a few instances, there is a possibility that some innocent person may be put to death wrongly. I wonder if those against the death penalty would acknowledge that their belief is probably responsible for more innocents dying than my position is. How many people are killed by murderers serving time in prison or by murderers who were released from prison after serving a certain amount of time or even escaping? I would bet that that number is much larger. I bet that number is much, much smaller (in regards to inmates on death row.) To boot, a prisoner on death row, who murders another prisoner, would have logically murdered a man already marked to die. Ne? More to the point, while there clearly are individuals in prison who are not guilty of their crimes, prison carries inherent risks. That being said, life in prison is, statistically, far safer than life outside of prison. A combination of free health care, and no auto accidents means far fewer prisoners die of unnatural causes. Still, and like I say every time this topic comes up, it's not a question of if the death penelty is right or wrong. It is a question of how society uses the prison system as an instrument of revenge. The sheer waste our thirst for blood is incalcuable. Stephan

Stephann -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 8:39:59 PM)
quote: " 'Polyamory' is wrong! It's, either: 'multiamory' or 'polyphilia', but mixing Greek and Latin roots is just wrong!" As a hijack... No, baby! http://www.potatoandonion.lardfork.com/archives/00000430.htm Back to your regularly schedualed madness. Stephan

kiyari -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 8:42:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsBearlee quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari In my (thankfully) limited experience, there ARE those among us, who have no conscience ... who genuinely can not recognize their wrong-doing (or who genuinely Do Not Care) Such persons are quite beyond 'rehabilitation'. I couldn't agree more...but, in that instance I was discussing the less nasty ones. Regardless of the deterrents, some people are gonna be lifers (or dead, as it stands now), but I was speaking of younger criminals who might be turned down a more appropriate career path. B Sadly, Lady... calendar AGE is not relevant, seemingly. It is the age old question of nature over nurture. Those among us devoid of conscience... Have you never known a family with a 'bad child', for example? One child so very different from their siblings? It is a mystery

Owner59 -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 8:47:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftKajira Level: "What if you kill someone that is innocent? Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet?" of course the innocent argument always comes up. I won't even get into it because of course as a non-believer in the death penalty you will have all your arguments "DNA can be wrong and everything can be wrong and you shouldn't risk it and so on".. I've heard them all, just as I have my own arguments and reasons for supporting it, which I'm sure you have heard before, so i definitely am not getting into.I support the death penalty and will continue to do so.. :-) Kill them in two weeks.... Is that what you wrote? We`ll make you a deal.We`ll go with your kill`m 1st,ask questions later method,as long as you forfeit your life,when we kill an innocent person. http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/719.php Here`s a guy who spent 17 years in jail,for a crime he didn`t commit.10 of those 17 years ,on death row,and came as close as two weeks to his execution.They eventually found the real killer through DNA. How many men have been killed ,who were innocent?That`s a question pro-death people can`t/won`t answer.All full of spit and vinegar, when it comes to declaring guilt and cowards when it comes to admitting that we often make mistakes.It`s not enough to say that some innocent people are bound to die,in order to have a death penalty.Not unless you`re willing to lay your life down,when the state makes the ultimate mistake. There are dozens and dozens of innocent men and women on death row.There are thousands of innocent men and women serving time for crimes they didn`t commit. Our system is far from perfect ,farther from adequate,and has far to many problems to be determining guilt or innocents,let alone who should die.If you have money,you can get away w/ murder.If you`re poor,you`re fucked. I find it strange,that the folks who have the most complaints about our government,and the most skepticism and doubt about our government,are quite willing to accept that the government is competent when deciding who dies. Strange indeed.

MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 9:24:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari quote: ORIGINAL: MsBearlee I couldn't agree more...but, in that instance I was discussing the less nasty ones. Regardless of the deterrents, some people are gonna be lifers (or dead, as it stands now), but I was speaking of younger criminals who might be turned down a more appropriate career path. Sadly, Lady... calendar AGE is not relevant, seemingly. It is the age old question of nature over nurture. Those among us devoid of conscience... Have you never known a family with a 'bad child', for example? One child so very different from their siblings? It is a mystery One day I will learn how to communicate more clearly on these boards. In my mind, younger criminal = less experienced criminal...I wasn't thinking specifically of age. Still, I agree with you to a point. Another reason I wouldn't vote for death of such a criminal as you mention is...they'd likely be, by definition, clinically mad. I don't believe in euthanizing the mentally ill. B

Owner59 -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 10:11:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsBearlee Okay, I've been spending too much time in the Off-Topic board I think...I came up with this thought: The US is one of the few countries left which carries out the uncivilized practice of punishment by death. Personally...I think it's just too expensive a punishment (for us I mean) and rather think corporal punishment EARLY in a person's career-path-to-crime might be the more civilized idea. Seems to me this is done in China, too...and don't they have far less crime there? The link to a clip (it's adult, you'll have to say you're one) shows how humanly punishment can be dealt out, and ya know...it's something I'd like to do to a few idiots I've read here; but that's just me talking. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=whip+penalize Seriously, why is it we'll put people to death after YEARS spent in prison, most often for the final deed a bad person’s lifetime of offenses, but find something as simple as spanking the bad-one’s butt horrific? I think it might change more than one person’s career choice, as long as it was done early-on. Yanno? I wonder what Michael Fay is doin these days...(course, they did go easy on him; the little punk said it was like a bloody nose! With a father like his, perhaps he continued on his career-path; but I bet he stays out of China!) Ha! B I`ll do this for ya. C&Ped from another thread http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=472442&in_page_id=1811

Bearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 11:11:40 PM)
Ack!!! Surely, Sir...by this time you've seen the thread where I, too, copied that link? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1187372&key= You would find my answer to your offer...there! <whimper> beverly

kiyari -> RE: Killing to... Remove (8/4/2007 11:34:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: kiyari My personal take, self-identifying among the 'misfits', is: society is a horrid construct, necessitated by the apparent 'natural' inclination among we 'humankind', to play King-of-the-Hill in earnest and hard-ball in pursuit of 'wealth-and-power', however defined. So, society, and the way it's designed, helps create some of the problem people? Am I getting closer? [:D] 'Helps Create' ?!?!? [tries to stifle guffaws] Define: "society", as it circumsizes the rights of the individual... I would be quite content, personally, to 'live small' on my own. a bit of land, access to water... aah, but that is beyond reach of mere peons we have been born to be interchangeable and eminently disposable worker-units ...'American Dream'... not with the War on Drugs [sarcasm]

MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/4/2007 11:44:42 PM)
This is MY thread...and I'll thank you not to change the Subject Line. And Level was trying to understand your disjointed, poorly written replies. Where ARE your manners? B PS: It's bad form to change the subject line...and makes things confusing and hard to follow.

subnstudent -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/5/2007 2:41:07 AM)
Well, I have to say that there's always going to be problems with every system and exceptions to every rule. So even if more parents did use corporal punishment when people were kids, you'd still have the same problems, because there are so many people out there that there's going to be some of everybody. You get the crappy parents and you get the good parents, you get the child-molesting mass-murder types and you get the saint types. It's gonna happen no matter what, and if you change the system (assuming you could) everybody as a whole would come up with new ways to hurt themselves and other people. Not to mention it's going to be awfully difficult to come up with a system that works for everybody.

Level -> RE: Twue punishment (8/5/2007 4:08:39 AM)
B, I still don't know exactly what she means......

sublimelysensual -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/5/2007 5:02:25 AM)
I think in some cases the death penalty is more than warranted..ie, serial killers, people who kill children- in other words, for horrific crimes. Those criminals knowingly committed the crimes, well aware of what would/could happen if they should be caught (ie, that the death penalty was a possibility if the state they were in uses it). Do I think the system is perfect? No, and that's the only problem I have with it. From there, for me, it becomes less clear. I'm sure innocent people have died, and that there are innocent people on the Row. Fortunately with DNA testing and the like, probably not as many as there were say, twenty years ago. Do the benefits outweigh the risk? For myself, yes. The other thing I don't like is that the people are informed of the date the sentence will be carried out. I think they should sit in their cell wondering every day if it will be their last. Their victims didn't have the luxury of knowing when they would die, why should the killer? Maybe I am vengeful.. I just think there are certain crimes that should be punishable by death. I don't think corporal punishment would have an effect on a sociopath (not a positive one, anyway). As for the cost thing, in the short term, life imprisonment does cost less then carrying out a death penalty, but eventually, seems to exceed it. Hypothetically, you're looking at someone being imprisoned for 50 yrs (lifetime without parole), versus 10 yrs(average plus a few for good measure). I've seen an estimate that the "average" death penalty case costs about 1.8 million, the average life imprisonment (using 50 yrs), 3.01 million. Anyway, just my two cents as always. If anyone wants a link to the stats I posted on cost, just let me know..didn't want to post them with author's permission... -a

SoftKajira -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/5/2007 5:39:15 AM)
And to think, even after all the "sarcastic, I'm oh so clever" comments I still support the death penalty gasp.. I guess you guys will have to go back to the drawing board, you apparently haven't worked hard enough to show me the Right and only way to think huh?, because of course everyone has to think like you, or the world will end [:D]

Level -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/5/2007 5:59:57 AM)
And whom would you be directing that too?

MsBearlee -> RE: Twue Punishment (8/5/2007 6:28:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftKajira And to think, even after all the "sarcastic, I'm oh so clever" comments I still support the death penalty gasp.. I guess you guys will have to go back to the drawing board, you apparently haven't worked hard enough to show me the Right and only way to think huh?, because of course everyone has to think like you, or the world will end [:D] Ya know, you're new here and have posted a total of 26 times so far. You do not 'know' the personalities involved nor, apparently, do you pay attention to how they write. Your being rude will get you nowhere, why not just slow down a bit and get to know us? Level is as kind and gentle a participant as there is...and I'm quite sure he was not baiting you. Go back and re-read the posts, girlie...and if you're half the adult you should be, you can apologize to him then! B

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875