RE: Are they or aren't they submissive?

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mmb1 -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 9:58:18 AM)
It is really very difficult for submissives/slaves who are fairly new to express their submissiveness. And I believe with the direct guidance of their Master, it can be done. Words for some are very difficult here, in real life, I think the natural submissiveness will show up or not. But all express themselves differently, and because you cannot express it "correct" in "words" does not take away the fact that you are truly submissive.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 10:50:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mmb1 It is really very difficult for submissives/slaves who are fairly new to express their submissiveness. And I believe with the direct guidance of their Master, it can be done. Words for some are very difficult here, in real life, I think the natural submissiveness will show up or not. But all express themselves differently, and because you cannot express it "correct" in "words" does not take away the fact that you are truly submissive. I think one of the issues that came up was that many dominants have no desire to even bother with some of these girls because of the attitude they display. Now some of them may well be the types who are scared or who feel submissive = weak, and they are waiting for Rhett Butler to come snatch 'em up, spank their bottom, throw 'em on the bed and have his way with them....... whew...... is it getting warm in here? [image]http://www.collarme.com/htmlarea/smileys/0026.gif[/image] Ahem, what was I talking about? [image]http://www.collarme.com/htmlarea/smileys/0565.gif[/image] [8\|] Oh yea, ~some~ of them may be hoping for a Rhett Butler dom, but from what I gather, most dominants aren't gonna bother to see if there's a diamond underneath that rude, obnoxious, demanding, unyielding lump of coal.

Padriag -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 11:03:16 AM)
Pretty much sums it up Naughty. The experiences most of dominants have with such "submissives" is that more often than not, the odds of finding a "diamond in the rough" isn't worth the failure rate... which can get messy. On a personal note, I think that high failure rate is partly due to a lack of knowledge / skill on the part of dominants. To extend the "diamond mining" analogy, to go beyond surface mining takes additional knowledge, tools and skills which have to be acquired. Its a complex issue, but then what about people isn't?

MadRabbit -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 11:34:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Young women (in a general stereotypical way) tend to date assholes and nice guys as friends. They sit in bars in groups and wait for the sort of guy who can walk across a bar and hit on a woman in a group. They equate domineering with dominance even if subconscously. Young women in the scene, especially hot ones get a LOT of attention, not mine but many. One changes ones behavior when it no longer serves your purpose and they do not yet realize it doesn't serve their purpose. Around 26 women tend to start looking back and wondering why they date assholes and why they have nice guys as friends and some work it out faster than others, some never do. So they come into the scene with the female BDSM fantasy, which is often rather Gorian in the sense of strong man taking the woman, the vanilla equivelent is being raped by a handsome single romantic rogue who is a talented lover and who later marries them. Castlerealm crap. They don't get that someone like me IS nice and kind and friendly and doesn't hit on or pressure them. They see that as weakness. Plus and or they get the "response" they want by being bratty. At some point some will realize that shit doesn't work, the men they want aren't interested and they change and the best ones (just kidding folks) become perfect for me. This is kind of why I want to bang my head against the wall and just give up on finding an ideal slave til around 30.

MadRabbit -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 11:40:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag Pretty much sums it up Naughty. The experiences most of dominants have with such "submissives" is that more often than not, the odds of finding a "diamond in the rough" isn't worth the failure rate... which can get messy. On a personal note, I think that high failure rate is partly due to a lack of knowledge / skill on the part of dominants. To extend the "diamond mining" analogy, to go beyond surface mining takes additional knowledge, tools and skills which have to be acquired. Its a complex issue, but then what about people isn't? This really kind of describes the trap I am in somewhats. Ideally in a perfect world, as a new dominant who has a lot of time and work to do regarding his own experience, tools and skills, I would want to find an experienced slave who has already gotten past this whole mess. However, the majority of young girls I meet, arent at that place. Nor am I at a place where I can properly deal with every contigency that is presented and be able to positively direct them in the right way. Its kind of a big conadrum when your young and desire an M/S relationship. The blind leading the blind. I can really only hope that I dont screw things up too badly in the next decade.

Emperor1956 -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 11:43:13 AM)
FastReply: Oh come on, guys. Young, sexy women who appear at scene events as "submissives" and just don't behave the way the OP wants them to be? This is a code word for "they didn't fall all over Me and My Lordliness". They aren't taking the chocolate, and therefore there must be something wrong with their submission, their attitude, their very being. I calls it sour grapes, again. And I'll bet that every male among us (certainly the OP, and yours truly included), if one of these bratty women allowed it, would put aside her lack of submission/service and her bad behavior and fuck her brains out. E. Some days you just gotta call em as you see em.

MadRabbit -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 11:45:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietlyIntense My first thread on the forums and I have an observation and question - and it doesn't have a blessed thing to do with submissives who don't answer emails and it's only vaguely sorta kinda about twueness . [sm=lol.gif] I have been interacting with people from the BDSM communities in my area and have encountered some young women who defy any label I can come up with. The closest I can come up with is a bottom, but many don't even seem to fit that. Yes I know labeling means nothing, but it certainly helps when you're trying to figure out if the person you are speaking with is even in the ballpark of what you are seeking. Anyway, quite a few of these young women who proclaim submissive status are insistent that they be treated as a princess, that they will not submit to the authority or will of a dominant except in maybe a kinky sex scenario. They are often rude, obnoxious and demanding when they've been treated politely and respectfully. They are self proclaimed princesses and demand to be treated as such. They even brag that it will take a tough, hardass dominant to get them to submit. I have met a wide variety of submissive women in my life and they were all very different individuals, but none of them were quite like these young women I've encountered lately. Understand that I'm not talking about thinking someone should be submissive to you until you've agreed to seek a relationship with each other. I am talking about behaviors that I imagine would make most dominants not even bother to pursue them at all because they aren't worth the trouble or headache. If you've got bad attitude, a list of demands and a wall three feet thick in front you, do you really think most dominants are going to want to try and get through that just to see if there might possibly be someone worth having a relationship with? For me, I don't like being around rude, pushy people of any sort, much less do I want to be in a relationship with one. I want a woman who wants to submit to me in a relationship, not have to be drug kicking and screaming into it. So enough rambling already Intense, get to your questions. Are these women really submissive or are they situationally submissive or are they bottoms or none of the above? And as a dominant, would you even bother with this type of female and hope beyond hope that there was a treasure underneath that rude, demanding exterior? I can relate very much to a lot of these young girls you have met. Its caused me quite a lot of wall banging. The only thing I can add to this discussion is to remember whether this is how they really are or just how you perceive them. Just the other weekend, I was at a play party in Columbia and bottomed to a good Domme friend of mine, simply because I was curious and wanted to self explore. At first glance at the party, I could easily be labeled as one of those "pleasure seekers, just out to have fun with no direction" or "Not really Dominant because he's in the backroom getting flogged, paddled, and the subject of a Wartberg Wheel". However, most people who know me on a personal level know that is far from the case regarding my orientation, where I am in my own life, and what I want out of my personal relationships.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 12:05:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 FastReply: Oh come on, guys. Young, sexy women who appear at scene events as "submissives" and just don't behave the way the OP wants them to be? This is a code word for "they didn't fall all over Me and My Lordliness". They aren't taking the chocolate, and therefore there must be something wrong with their submission, their attitude, their very being. I calls it sour grapes, again. And I'll bet that every male among us (certainly the OP, and yours truly included), if one of these bratty women allowed it, would put aside her lack of submission/service and her bad behavior and fuck her brains out. E. Some days you just gotta call em as you see em. Well I don't know where the OP got off to, but I'm familiar with some of the girls he's talking about, which is why I responded. I know someone will offer me a saucer of milk for saying this, but these are not gorgeous, hot, hard bodied hunnies with hoards of drooling dominants chasing them. I had one introduce herself to me at the last party by saying she was a submissive, but that no dominants dared approach her because she has a bad attitude. I'm getting a snack and she's quite loudly and proudly telling me of how difficult she is, blah blah blah. I was like, alrighty then...... cocktail weenie? [8\|] So I thought it was funny that the OP had the same experience. [:D]

slave4umastr -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 12:10:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirEbonyPhoenix I echo the majority of comments when I say that they verylikely are not really submissive, but are seeking their own sexual gratifcation. I say this because I am currently dealing with a bottom who only wants sex, but nothing to do with being a sub/slave. To me, they need to go back to the vanilla world and get their sexual needs fulfilled there as opposed to here, but then, that's my humble, though very blunt opinion. Oh yeah, because I'm sure these young girls can't get sex out in the real world, and if they can they don't because they need it from your hot sexy 38 year old body right? Typical male fantasy. You don't WANT sex or anything but that beautiful young girl is just USING you.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 1:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 FastReply: Oh come on, guys. Young, sexy women who appear at scene events as "submissives" and just don't behave the way the OP wants them to be? This is a code word for "they didn't fall all over Me and My Lordliness". They aren't taking the chocolate, and therefore there must be something wrong with their submission, their attitude, their very being. I calls it sour grapes, again. And I'll bet that every male among us (certainly the OP, and yours truly included), if one of these bratty women allowed it, would put aside her lack of submission/service and her bad behavior and fuck her brains out. E. Some days you just gotta call em as you see em. You are wrong, I am sure I am far from the only dominant here who passes these sort of women up all the time in real life, both women from local groups and women local to me from CM. They don't yet have the maturity to maintain let alone end relationships well and think in terms of blame rather than simply understanding that paths have crossed and uncrossed. Best not to get involved with most of them. Young women like LA are very VERY rare, most are nowhere near that level headed.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 1:29:50 PM)
LOL let it be known I've got a few assholes in my past I should have known better about also :)

Grlwithboy -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 1:33:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 FastReply: Oh come on, guys. Young, sexy women who appear at scene events as "submissives" and just don't behave the way the OP wants them to be? This is a code word for "they didn't fall all over Me and My Lordliness". They aren't taking the chocolate, and therefore there must be something wrong with their submission, their attitude, their very being. I calls it sour grapes, again. And I'll bet that every male among us (certainly the OP, and yours truly included), if one of these bratty women allowed it, would put aside her lack of submission/service and her bad behavior and fuck her brains out. E. Some days you just gotta call em as you see em. You are wrong, I am sure I am far from the only dominant here who passes these sort of women up all the time in real life, both women from local groups and women local to me from CM. They don't yet have the maturity to maintain let alone end relationships well and think in terms of blame rather than simply understanding that paths have crossed and uncrossed. Best not to get involved with most of them. Young women like LA are very VERY rare, most are nowhere near that level headed. Yeah. I've got a solid dose of guy-brain about sex and its -- just -- not -- worth -- it. IME, anyhow. I am not talking about simple things like "I walk in the world as a top unless I want you to be MY top" people or "I like to be a brat 'cause it's fun" people, or "I have a hard time with submission but I know it's what I want" people - I really do understand the kind of "everyone should just kiss my ass I'm hawt" mentality, and someone who's so insecure as to have to alienate as many people as possible because no one's "good enough" (ie. they project their inferiority onto everyone) I am not a shrink. If I want to role play one I'll find someone more self-aware to play that scene with.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 1:45:17 PM)
quote: I am not talking about simple things like "I walk in the world as a top unless I want you to be MY top" people or "I like to be a brat 'cause it's fun" people, or "I have a hard time with submission but I know it's what I want" people - I really do understand the kind of "everyone should just kiss my ass I'm hawt" mentality, and someone who's so insecure as to have to alienate as many people as possible because no one's "good enough" (ie. they project their inferiority onto everyone) I don't think I have seen the above ever describes so succinctly or lucidly, WOW!

QuietlyIntense -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 1:56:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag The OP seems to have wandered off and its hard to say exactly what sort of "submissives" he was describing. At a certain point several of us seemed to have wandered off on our own tanget and filled in the blanks with a specific group, then discussed that. Its dangerous leaving a bunch of domly types to their own devices ya know. [;)] On the contrary Padriag, I see that in my absence a great deal of discussion has taken place. And good discussion at that. Many of you have hit on exactly the types of young women I have encountered. I have no intention of wasting my time on these types. I'm too old for all of the drama and catch me if you can game playing. But I haven't been in the public scene for a while now and honestly wondered if others encountered this behavior and what their thoughts were on it. Much appreciation to those who have shared their thoughts and opinions in my first thread.

Grlwithboy -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 2:14:18 PM)
quote: I don't think I have seen the above ever describes so succinctly or lucidly, WOW! Thanks. Unfortunately I can describe it 'cause I had to have my little wet nose rubbed in it. But I learned stuff. :)

iammachine -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 2:43:13 PM)
tl;dr the entire thread completely (skimmed), so I appolize if I'm sounding off something that's already been said a lot. The women that the OP is describing might be brats, they might be SAMs, or they might just flat out be defensive. Being a young female in this community can be very difficult. You are in the position of being something of a hot commodity and often get quite a bit of unwelcome attention. Not to say that everyone is a jerk or a wanker, but due to an unfortunately abundance or arrogant jerks and overeager wankers, at least I tend to look twice at even someone that's pretty polite before accepting them at face value. C'est la vie. I, personally, don't like the opportunistic gimme gimme attitude, but to each their own I suppose. Aside from that, I can uderstand how and why a lot of girls can come across as a bit standoffish. As for what I like in a sub, I like a little fire and a lot of spunk, though to hell with anyone that's just flat out difficult.

Padriag -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 3:04:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross LOL let it be known I've got a few assholes in my past I should have known better about also :) I suspect that's something we've all got in common. [;)]

LaTigresse -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 3:11:52 PM)
Hey, some of us have BEEN an asshole in the past.

Padriag -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 3:15:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: QuietlyIntense On the contrary Padriag, I see that in my absence a great deal of discussion has taken place. And good discussion at that. Its been interesting and I've enjoyed seeing others perspectives. quote: Many of you have hit on exactly the types of young women I have encountered. I'd wondered if we had. What you initially described was ambiguous enough to fit a number of different personalities/senarios/causes. quote: I have no intention of wasting my time on these types. I'm too old for all of the drama and catch me if you can game playing. Never a good idea to waste your time with anything. quote: But I haven't been in the public scene for a while now and honestly wondered if others encountered this behavior and what their thoughts were on it. Oh I've encountered it, in all its myriad forms. As has already been discussed, there's actually a lot of different causes for the behavior. Some of those causes can be worked with, others are more problematic and some just are not going to be worth the effort. quote: Much appreciation to those who have shared their thoughts and opinions in my first thread. Was a good thread, and I suspect we aren't done yet. [;)] Its an interesting topic and there are several of us who enjoy discussing about anything related to psychology.

MadRabbit -> RE: Are they or aren't they submissive? (8/9/2007 3:33:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 I calls it sour grapes, again. And I'll bet that every male among us (certainly the OP, and yours truly included), if one of these bratty women allowed it, would put aside her lack of submission/service and her bad behavior and fuck her brains out. I can go to a bar and meet the same young women and do the same thing. Why wait to a munch? Casual sex is great (though its only slightly above masturbation to me when there is no emotional connection and since masturbation doesnt cost dinner and drinks, they kind of balance out), but some of us honestly do want to meet a partner and do want someone for a long term M/S relationship.

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