quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
If the document said firearms,there would be no debate about right to own a gun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: BUW4you

ya know...england has a law about the right to keep and bear arms....and they are talking about family devices and coat of arms

A friend of mine in England told me what he had to do in order to get the permit to keep a pistol in his home. The gun has to be locked in a box that's attached to a wall the opposite side of the room from his bed. So, if you have an intruder, you have to ask them to give you a minute? They also said in order to get the permit you have to agree to the condition that they can come in at any time to check to see if that's where your gun is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petslavennj

I can't believe I am posting on this since most of what has been written is out of a passionate belief system that may or may not be based on an open minded reality. Placing blame on an inanimate object does not make sense to me. In the end, as with anything, it is not the gun that harms another, it is the person on the other end of it or the one who should have control of it. Banning guns does nothing to control the stupidity of those who misused the inanimate object to begin with. They will just find another source to use and those who blamed the inanimate object will then shift their concerns to the new object.
I have owned guns since 1983. These were the ones purchased in my name. I have had small children in the house. I taught my daughter to shoot at a firing range at the age of 5. I have never had an incident. In the community where I lived for many years, high school boys went to school with guns in their trucks so they could hunt after school. There were never incidences of shootings in the school.
If we need to ban guns to eliminate bad human behavior, do we then credit the inanimate object for the good behavior of these boys? With that mentality, we should then provide guns to more kids because of their good behavior and then this would encourage further good behavior.
Growing up in an area that had territorial gangs, I saw many other objects used in a deadly way. Guns were not the object of choice at that time. A kid beat until the edge of death with a chain was just as gruesome, did just as much permanent damage, and was just as costly to the community. Why are we not on the bandwagon to outlaw chains in the open community?
Common kitchen knives are used in many house break-ins, to perpetrate a rape on the street, and in many domestic incidences. They are readily available. Why are we not trying to outlaw common kitchen utensils (inanimate objects) to protect helpless men and women from humans who have problems?
People who have psychotic problems will utilize any inanimate object that is available. If a gun is not available, it will be something else. Perhaps they will turn to making bombs as in the Oklahoma City incident. But rest assured, they will find something to suit their purposes. Taking one object away only leads them to look for something else. It certainly does not change the behavior. And, in the end, it is the psychotic behavior that is a danger to society.
That said, parents who are not responsible with their guns, probably are not responsible in other areas of parenting as well. It is only a sign of bigger issues. The problems start at home. Perhaps we should look there. It is like blaming the candy in the store for a child shoplifting. Is it the candy, the child, the parent? The least likely perpetrator is the inanimate object.
If we are going to expel energy in such a passionate way, then use it to do something that will make a difference. Be a Big Brother or Sister, volunteer to work with kids in the community, make a real difference.
My best friend takes inner city junior high kids on a survival camping trip every year. She teaches them ways to depend on one another, she teaches them team efforts. They are not looking for guns to solve problems, they are looking to each other.
I currently am working with high schoolers to help them explore career opportunities. I show them how they can succeed and I facilitate that process. They learn life skills they can use for the rest of their life. These type of efforts will help the issues we fear in society.

Pet

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: BUW4you

ya know...england has a law about the right to keep and bear arms....and they are talking about family devices and coat of arms

A friend of mine in England told me what he had to do in order to get the permit to keep a pistol in his home. The gun has to be locked in a box that's attached to a wall the opposite side of the room from his bed. So, if you have an intruder, you have to ask them to give you a minute? They also said in order to get the permit you have to agree to the condition that they can come in at any time to check to see if that's where your gun is.

Gun permits are issued in the UK solely for sporting reasons. The box is out of reach so that it can’t be considered as a viable option for self defence. You are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself if someone breaks into your home in the UK but you can’t be the aggressor. The finality that firing a weapon only once at an intruder could bring is why it will never be considered as reasonable force in the UK.

In South Africa all you have to prove is that the intruder fired first. The police will routinely pick up the gun from a dead intruder and fire it into the wall to falsely prove this on your behalf.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
If the document said firearms,there would be no debate about right to own a gun.

How do you know that the founding fathers were not anticipating that a document that was intended to cover the span of many lifetimes, might need to be kept general, in order to include things that had not yet been invented, or even considered?

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: BUW4you

ya know...england has a law about the right to keep and bear arms....and they are talking about family devices and coat of arms

A friend of mine in England told me what he had to do in order to get the permit to keep a pistol in his home. The gun has to be locked in a box that's attached to a wall the opposite side of the room from his bed. So, if you have an intruder, you have to ask them to give you a minute? They also said in order to get the permit you have to agree to the condition that they can come in at any time to check to see if that's where your gun is.

Gun permits are issued in the UK solely for sporting reasons. The box is out of reach so that it can’t be considered as a viable option for self defence. You are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself if someone breaks into your home in the UK but you can’t be the aggressor. The finality that firing a weapon only once at an intruder could bring is why it will never be considered as reasonable force in the UK.

In South Africa all you have to prove is that the intruder fired first. The police will routinely pick up the gun from a dead intruder and fire it into the wall to falsely prove this on your behalf.

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

That firing into a wall to help someone is great.

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

Couldn't disagree with that UK policy more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

That firing into a wall to help someone is great.

They don't do it for free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIAL
Lynyrd Skynyrd

Two feets they come a creepin
like a black cat do
and two bodies are layin' naked.
Creeper think he got nothin' to lose.
So he creeps into this house, yeah
and unlocks the door
and as a man's reaching for his trousers
shoots him full of thirty-eight holes.
It's the Saturday night special
got a barrel that's blue and cold
ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey
and playin' poker on a losin' night
and pretty soon ol' Jim starts a thinkin
somebody been cheatin' and lyin'.
So big Jim commence to fightin',
I wouldn't tell you no lie.
Big Jim done pulled his pistol,
shot his friend right between the eyes.
It's the Saturday night special
got a barrel that's blue and cold
ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
Hand guns are made for killin',
they ain't no good for nothin' else.
And if you like to drink your whiskey
you might even shoot yourself.
So why don't we dump 'em people
to the bottom of the sea
before some ol' fool come around here,
wanna shoot either you or me.
It's the Saturday night special
you got a barrel that's blue and cold
you ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
It's the saturday night special
and I'd like to tell you what you could do with it
and that's the end of the song

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

Just intruding or attempting to should permit a citizen to do whatever they deem to be necessary at the time, again, IMO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

That firing into a wall to help someone is great.

They don't do it for free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

Couldn't disagree with that UK policy more.

I don’t really want to comment on the rights and wrongs of gun ownership as most here have decided for themselves and won’t be swayed anyway. No law is perfect and that’s just life. I simply wanted to clarify that BUW4you’s friend may have been permitted to have a gun but on no basis should this be considered as the UK law stating that guns are ok for self defence.  A misinterpretation of the law like this is how people fall foul of the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

Just intruding or attempting to should permit a citizen to do whatever they deem to be necessary at the time, again, IMO.

I’ll give you an example of why shooting someone in your house is never going to be that cut and dried as far as the police are concerned, not even in the US.

I’m a disgruntled husband and my wife is having an affair, although I have found out without her knowing. I invite the boyfriend around to my house pretending to be my wife and I may make the seemingly bizarre request that the boyfriend play the role of an intruder. Once he steps foot inside my house I can then shoot him dead.
 
The wife may suspect I knew about the affair and killed him on purpose but how can this be proven? As far as anyone knows I mistakenly killed what I thought was a criminal intent on hurting me.

The police will always investigate your links to people in shooting cases and dig up your history to make sure what I just described doesn’t occur.

Just one more thing, I love Columbo…

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
They were,and they did.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

the redneck version of gun control is learning how to aim and shoot a gun while drunk...LOL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

That firing into a wall to help someone is great.

They don't do it for free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

Couldn't disagree with that UK policy more.

I don’t really want to comment on the rights and wrongs of gun ownership as most here have decided for themselves and won’t be swayed anyway. No law is perfect and that’s just life. I simply wanted to clarify that BUW4you’s friend may have been permitted to have a gun but on no basis should this be considered as the UK law stating that guns are ok for self defence.  A misinterpretation of the law like this is how people fall foul of the law.

I heard a story about a guy in Texas,who regularly carried a deer gun in his gun rack.He was working in a boarder crossing town,and got such on a ramp that took him into the crossing area,by mistake.He claimed he could back out or turn around,and ended up going through Mexican customs,totally by mistake.He would have been fine,but with the rifle in the truck,he was arrested and spent months in  Mexican jail.

How`s that for bad luck.

I agree that every country and state should be able to make their own laws and rules.That`s always a given.
You`re absolutely correct,that one should know the laws and rules of any given area,so one doesn`t get caught up by a mistake.

Here in NJ,if you transport a gun,it has to be put in the truck and un-loaded.And you better be able to produce the proper papers,if the police find the gun in your car.If not,say hello to a jail cell and a world of shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

Just intruding or attempting to should permit a citizen to do whatever they deem to be necessary at the time, again, IMO.

I’ll give you an example of why shooting someone in your house is never going to be that cut and dried as far as the police are concerned, not even in the US.

I’m a disgruntled husband and my wife is having an affair, although I have found out without her knowing. I invite the boyfriend around to my house pretending to be my wife and I may make the seemingly bizarre request that the boyfriend play the role of an intruder. Once he steps foot inside my house I can then shoot him dead.
 
The wife may suspect I knew about the affair and killed him on purpose but how can this be proven? As far as anyone knows I mistakenly killed what I thought was a criminal intent on hurting me.

The police will always investigate your links to people in shooting cases and dig up your history to make sure what I just described doesn’t occur.

Just one more thing, I love Columbo…

Which goes to what you said before, which I've also said many times, that there will never be a perfect policy.

What if you had two countries side-by-side with the exact same population numbers, economic systems, etc. The only difference was the gun control laws, or lack of them in one. What if, in a year, one more person died due to accidental shootings where they're allowed? I'd still be against a government telling that I can't be at least as well armed as the criminals are. I don't think they have the right to.

I try to base every belief I have in reasoning, not on what Dan Rather, Fox News, or anyone else preaches. The Republicans are too fiscally liberal for me, and the Democrats are too socially conservative. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: substobbws

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIAL
Lynyrd Skynyrd

Two feets they come a creepin
like a black cat do
and two bodies are layin' naked.
Creeper think he got nothin' to lose.
So he creeps into this house, yeah
and unlocks the door
and as a man's reaching for his trousers
shoots him full of thirty-eight holes.
It's the Saturday night special
got a barrel that's blue and cold
ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey
and playin' poker on a losin' night
and pretty soon ol' Jim starts a thinkin
somebody been cheatin' and lyin'.
So big Jim commence to fightin',
I wouldn't tell you no lie.
Big Jim done pulled his pistol,
shot his friend right between the eyes.
It's the Saturday night special
got a barrel that's blue and cold
ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
Hand guns are made for killin',
they ain't no good for nothin' else.
And if you like to drink your whiskey
you might even shoot yourself.
So why don't we dump 'em people
to the bottom of the sea
before some ol' fool come around here,
wanna shoot either you or me.
It's the Saturday night special
you got a barrel that's blue and cold
you ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
It's the saturday night special
and I'd like to tell you what you could do with it
and that's the end of the song

If dumping them ALL in the sea were POSSIBLE, along with keeping more from being produced, I'd agree. We want the same end result/both have good intentions. Just disagree on what works and what doesn't. That's why I attack what you say, but not you.

LOL, you're pulling Skynyrd out on someone from the Southeast? You might wanna holster THAT gun!