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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 2:48:46 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?


Yes, he does and sometimes it is a great deal of pleasure.  There are things that he has gained an interest in simply because I don't like it.  Needle play is something that he wants to do because of the reaction that I had to a picture of needles in someone's breasts.  These types of things appeal to the sadist within and enforce the authority transfer for me.  Currently, he is withholding my favorite chocolate that a friend's mom brought from Belgium and gets all giddy when he taunts me with it by making me smell it and then put it back in the drawer.  He was kind this week and allowed me to have one piece.

He is well aware that Alandra and I need to have an appropriate balance of pleasures, challenges and neutral activities in our life to feel fulfilled as his slave.  He also knows that the balance is unique to us both.  If he only required us to do things that brought us pleasure both of us would feel underutilized as his slave.  The fact that he will do what he wants even if it is challenging for her and me reinforces that he is Master and we serve at his pleasure and not at ours. 

Knight's Kyra


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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 2:52:07 PM   
Bearlee


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awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... you guys have SUCH FUN!
 
 
Good for you,
b

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 5:39:22 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?


My Master sure does, and for a couple of reasons.  First, it makes him proud to see me overcome my own desires and preferences and do for him what I would not otherwise wish to do.  He loves to see me work for him, and the more I do, the closer we become.  Also, sometimes he has me do stuff I don't like simply because it amuses him.  And when he is amused, I am thrilled.  He has the best laugh and the greatest smile - it lights up my world.  So even if I'm agonizing, I'm usually laughing right along with him because he is so delighted. 

For us it just strengthens the bond.

It's not something that happens with great regularity, but it happens when he wants it to happen, and I generally feel good about myself afterwards for overcoming myself to please him.  Then again, I'm one that needs a challenge, and this is one of the ways he finds pleasure in developing me. 

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 8:02:02 PM   
Smythe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?


My Master sure does, and for a couple of reasons. First, it makes him proud to see me overcome my own desires and preferences and do for him what I would not otherwise wish to do. He loves to see me work for him, and the more I do, the closer we become. Also, sometimes he has me do stuff I don't like simply because it amuses him. And when he is amused, I am thrilled. He has the best laugh and the greatest smile - it lights up my world. So even if I'm agonizing, I'm usually laughing right along with him because he is so delighted.

For us it just strengthens the bond.

It's not something that happens with great regularity, but it happens when he wants it to happen, and I generally feel good about myself afterwards for overcoming myself to please him. Then again, I'm one that needs a challenge, and this is one of the ways he finds pleasure in developing me.



ownedgirlie, you and some others have really helped me think about this question in a new way. Ds can be such a beautiful dynamic. In your situation, your master likes to make you do things that are hard for you, or that you don't like, but you still get pleasure from doing them. If you were always asked to only do things you liked, maybe you wouldn't be as challenged, or feel such satisfaction in serving.

My example of ordering gross stuff for my ex-sub was just a silly example. As you might imagine, it was more of a humorous situation. In general though, I prefer a situation where both parties are clearly getting what they want. But what you have explained is that this is not always as simple as it appears.
Smythe



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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 8:07:06 PM   
Smythe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it.


Hmmm.... wonder why he's not your sub any more...?
Seriously, the occasional activity "just because you can" is fun, but if the balance tips into a dynamic where the sub is always on the raw end of the deal, they generally vote with their feet.

:))
LH




LadyHeart, I see your point of view, but what's clear is that making someone do something that is hard for them is not always the "raw end of the deal". Sometimes it is exactly what they want.

My ex-submissive loved this dynamic; it was fun but also established my authority. And believe me, he never starved.

Love your hat!
Smythe



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Do not consider painful what is good for you.
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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 9:25:47 PM   
LadyHeart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe


LadyHeart, I see your point of view, but what's clear is that making someone do something that is hard for them is not always the "raw end of the deal". Sometimes it is exactly what they want.

My ex-submissive loved this dynamic; it was fun but also established my authority. And believe me, he never starved.

Love your hat!
Smythe


My reply was a bit tongue in cheek. The point I was making is that it's a question of sensitivity to the dynamic really. Take the meal example which you just gave. It could be a very amusing game, where part of the anticipation of the occasion for the submissive was the teasing, the dread, and  knowing he would have the pleasure of proving himself by eating whatever "treat" you could find on the menu. But imagine the same situation at the end of a bad day, when the effort of stomaching something unpalatable tipped the balance from feeling valued to feeling devalued. It's the usual case of "one size does not fits all".  It "can" be fun, but it "can" be a recipe for disaster, depending upon the personalities involved and the situation at the time.

:))
LH

Love your pic too!

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 9:29:19 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I think I am going to take mine shopping against his will - for both of us.

I want to dress him up in new, trendy and very tatseful "man clothes" (this is not a CD thing - at all). He's got good taste in clothes, I just want to put him in new clothes.

Plus, I want him with me when I look for new clothes - and not just lingerie. 

He said he doesn't particularly like shopping for clothes. Oh well. Guess this is one time he will be "sufferring" for me (what lovely torture this may be, hehe). I don't plan to make a habit of it, but it's a fantasy of mine.

He didn't know that (but he will now). (Laughs her wicked laugh....) Yes, I will enjoy doing this.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/10/2007 9:38:29 PM >

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/10/2007 9:37:04 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?


MJ is welcome to push and expand soft limits and to expand what I have done or have not. If I REALLY do NOT want to do something, I can always use one of my safewords [last ditch effort or cop-out, worst case scenario]; with MJ, our relationship is based on trust and communication, their are things that He enjoys that I don't. They are NOT limits, yet, I just don't like them for my own reasons, would I do them, yes, if they are NOT limits, then they are fair game. We talk about most things, so no surprises.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Consensually against your will - 8/12/2007 3:22:50 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		It takes two people to form a relationship. They grow and change as the two people interact with one another. The authority dynamic sometimes exists from the start it sometimes takes time to grow. All relationships are D/s to a certain extent. Usually the one in authority is the one who takes the lead because it is their natural disposition to do so.  If I give an instruction I expect it to be obeyed why would I waste my time otherwise? If you are used to power it comes more naturally. If you are used to being told what to do then it becomes natural to do it without question even if you don't want to. However consensual D/s is different. The submissive makes a choice to obey or not. I have no idea what I will enjoy doing within a consensual D/s relationship not really had one and it would depend on the sub/slave. I love humiliating some people in the vanilla world. I love controlling people and do. I can do most things in the vanilla world that float my boat. It's much easier for a dominant person to get their needs met in the vanilla world than a submissive. I will always chose the food a sub eats I don't care whether he/she likes it I know it's good for them. And they will get to like it in time. They will also like wearing the clothes I chose for them and the activities I chose for them to do. If they don't we have made a mistake when we made the decision to become a couple. It's the relationship that matters to me not what I do in it.

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/12/2007 5:36:04 AM   
Smythe


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Joined: 12/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1
<snipped for brevity>
It's the relationship that matters to me not what I do in it.



So just to be clear, are you saying that you make subs do stuff they don't like doing, but you take no pleasure in it? i.e. it's for their own good
Smythe



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Do not consider painful what is good for you.
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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/12/2007 5:05:43 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		We both get off on the struggle of doing what is not easy, what I don't necessarily want.  And the process of it over time.  And how that thing can turn into something I crave.  It is not about the momentary "she ate that crab" thing but the deep longer term surrender.  If it's something I can easily do although I don't want to, it has very little heat for each of us.  If it requires turning my head inside out to get to the end result we are all over it.

But that is not against my will.  Cause our wills are in sync.


< Message edited by arayofsunshine55 -- 8/12/2007 5:06:31 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Consensually against your will - 8/14/2007 12:12:42 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

When it is easy it is just easy, when it is hard thats when there is something to really submit too!


Raven is very right about this. (No suprise to me. :-) )

If my dominant required me to do only easy things - things I liked and wanted to do - then it just wouldn't feel like they were actually in power. I like to feel that I am truly stepping outside of my own wants and desires, truly submitting to their wants and desires.  

I love it when a dominant is strong enough and secure enough in our dynamic to push me this way. It takes confidence and a strong will, and those are very sexy traits in my eyes.   This has nothing at all to do with inferiority; it's about expressing the power dynamic. And it certainly isn't about a sub's needs and wants being unimportant.

I need to give up my own agenda, my own wants in order to feel completely fulfilled.   Making me do something I don't want to do reassures me that my needs and wants as a submissive are not only understood by my dominant but valued as well.  

Submitting to easy things is easy; you don’t even have to be a sub to do it. It’s submitting to the hard things that challenge me and make me proud of my submissive nature. It’s then that I feel the heady sensation of loss of control and the deepest state of subspace.  

I think it can easily be overdone, but that's where communication and empathy come in. It's like everything else in D/s, variety and spice is what makes it delicious.

< Message edited by Vancouver_cinful -- 8/14/2007 12:44:36 PM >

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/14/2007 1:55:29 PM   
MistresssAria


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		Absolutely!!!  And thanks for this idea ahaha  ;) :

"On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it. "

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/14/2007 2:26:43 PM   
Hisbellaluna


Posts: 127
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?



dishes and laundry and floors, oh my...

i don't know that he gets pleasure from making me do them, but he certainly get pleasure from having them done


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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/14/2007 4:31:08 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresssAria

Absolutely!!!  And thanks for this idea ahaha  ;) :

"On the other hand, when I used to go out to dinner with a previous sub, I used to order him the worst thing I could find on the menu just for the fun of making him eat it. "



Just to revisit this thread for fun...he did this accidentally once.  Earlier in the day we had a conversation about wine, and I was saying how I hate white zinfandel.  He took me to dinner later that night and ordered for me, as he does, and ordered me a glass of white zinfandel.  I thought he was doing it for fun.  As I was sipping it, he commented, "I don't know how you like that stuff."  I laughed and said I hate it! He had misunderstood, and thought I liked it.  I thought that was sweet, and I'll tell ya, it was the best glass of white zin I've ever had as a result. 

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/14/2007 5:26:15 PM   
Descara


Posts: 9
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline 		I view it as another activity of interest. Some people like this dynamic all the time, some like it some of the time, some don't like it at all. Personally I use it as a limit tester ("how far is s/he willing to go here?"), especially with newer relationships, but very rarely. The key to me seems to be consent. However consent gets negotiated in the relationship determines the extent to which it can be used.

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/15/2007 10:00:28 PM   
HisAlphaSlaveJ


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisbellaluna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

Dominants, do you get pleasure from making your submissive do things they don't really want to do?



dishes and laundry and floors, oh my...

i don't know that he gets pleasure from making me do them, but he certainly get pleasure from having them done



why yes He does!

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/15/2007 10:03:26 PM   
realtuffdom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ClandestinedOne

In one of my switch modes i had a girl shove her thumb up her ass and suck on it. XP



I am  confused at how she did this. Does the thumb come out the other side so she can suck it?


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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/16/2007 12:43:28 AM   
Aimtoplease101


Posts: 319
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline 		If he's really submissive and masochistic, and therefore actually enjoys being made to submit to things that might be painful/ difficult, etc., does it still count? Or does his enjoyment neutralize the Domme's enjoyment?



Sort of like the old joke-- the masochist says, "are you going to whip me," and the sadist says, "no."

Regards, ATP

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RE: Consensually against your will - 8/16/2007 3:44:34 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

I'm always happier when we are both enjoying.  Though I do enjoy a sadistic aspect of scaring someone or making them nervous.  I do things that people say..."um ok, little concerned here, but you are the dominant" and that's cool...specially when they realize when it is over they loved the rush too.



That rush - that's a big part of it.  I've done things that I really didn't want to do, but I had to because my Dom required them.  But afterwards there was a huge rush, I was on such a high.  And he knew I'd feel that way, he was very good at manipulating my emotions for maximum impact. 

For the sub, that's part of the payoff - there's the satisfaction of serving, and then the fantastic endorphin rush when you've faced a really confronting situation and forced yourself to go through it.  Brilliant.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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