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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/7/2005 6:26:56 PM   
pleasureforHim


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Joined: 7/2/2005
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quote:

Your post reminded me of something I've always wondered about with the Christian Children's Fund. I wonder if all the kids they help with the donations they get end up getting introduced, schooled, or otherwise indoctrinated into a Christian based program. I know that sounds cynical but considering Christianity is the only evangelical religion that I know of, it makes you wonder if they don't have a hidden agenda.

anthrosub


i have no first-hand knowledge of the distribution of funds/prerequisites for care of the Christian Childrens' Fund. And i think it is worth stating that not everyone who self-claims to be christian is a member of the religious right. What i DO know is that Catholic Missions are run just as you fear, anthro. In order to receive medical care, food or education, parents must submit their children to a catholic religious instruction class; and i imagine this class is more than 1/7th of the day's curriculm. Imagine the agony of being a devote Buddist or Taoist, but also having a very sick child, and the only medical care available is offered by Catholics, who will withhold it unless you agree to allow the child to be raised as a catholic.

The Church justifies withholding medical care and other necessities of life on the grounds that it is a lever to convert as many people as possible to Catholicism. This logic escapses me; we do not proletize in the US; as far as i know we do not proletize in any first-world country. It is only in third -world nations, where the necessities of life can be used to "convert": people does the Church seek to expand itself. This happened in California, in the Spanish Missions, during the expansion of the white people into the land of native americans and hispaniics.

The fun part of being Catholic is confessing your sins to a priest who is part of a heirarchy guilty of such hubrus and venialty. Well, that's part of the fun. But being Cathoic is not for weenies.

pleasureforHim

< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/7/2005 6:28:00 PM >

(in reply to anthrosub)
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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/7/2005 8:57:06 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		Well, thanks for your reply. I do hope what you described is not true. I have no knowledge of their activities...it was just a hunch based on the history of the church, so I feel the question is justified on those grounds. If it is true, I guess the middle ages haven't quite passed us yet. They certainly haven't in many parts of the Arab world. But hopefully time will push humanity to a point where all this disparity will finally reconcile into something everyone can live with.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to pleasureforHim)
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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/7/2005 10:10:23 PM   
wednesday


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Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:

The point really is, do we want the religious right to control any portion of public school curicullums? i say no; the courts have said no


Except that they do. I can only speak in regards to the Los Angeles Unified School District, as it is the only one I have worked for, but parental letter writing and complaining in the name of "morals" are preventing students from obtaining information they need as it is. The sex ed program is so limited now, kids are walking out more confused than when they walked in. And we are, for all intents and purposes, forbidden to answer their questions.


< Message edited by wednesday -- 7/7/2005 10:13:51 PM >

(in reply to pleasureforHim)
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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 1:53:14 AM   
darkinshadows


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As far as I know, they do school the children in christian doctrine - however - on the whole the STCF/CCF are pretty good about not indoctrinating and that their religious education programme encompassess hindu, muslim, jewish, catholic, and numerous other sections of religion. They have to be quite careful in their apprach and not seen as purely indoctrinating people. I for one commend anthro and don't find you cynical at all. Unless people like you stand up and monitor organisations and question their intentions, then who knows what would happen?

Incidently, on the counter discussion, it was proved that some catholic churches were paying 'charity' monies to schools and villages on the provission that they removed the ability to use contraceptives. If contraceptive usage was encouraged, a village didn't get aid - which will the AIDS explosion in africa, if one of the most inhumane and disgusting acts I have ever heard of.

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 7:38:59 AM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline 		I was raised a Catholic,
But since became a Christian.

I think that We will spend the rest of our lives
seeking other then what we know to be true.

Scientists will keep trying though~

Sincerely, Ant

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 10:45:18 AM   
pleasureforHim


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quote:

I was raised a Catholic,
But since became a Christian.


Well, i think i understand the sentiment behind this was not bigoted; but i would remind the author that to be a devote Catholic is to be a devote christian....we feel we are closest to the Word of God..we feel we are the One True Church. i am aware of the hypocrisy and venialty of the Church, and i do not look down on anyone who chose to leave..but ask for respect for anyone who remained and tries to find the Godliness of the Church despite its failures.

pleasureforHim

< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/8/2005 10:46:38 AM >

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 11:49:05 AM   
onceburned


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From: Iowa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel
If contraceptive usage was encouraged, a village didn't get aid - which will the AIDS explosion in africa, if one of the most inhumane and disgusting acts I have ever heard of.


The official Catholic position regarding condoms and HIV is extremely unfortunate. Fortunately, many Catholic activists and organizations ignore official teaching.

But the Church's position is not dissimilar to that of President Bush, whose ABC approach tends to downplay condoms. And of course, in the news today is that American anti-HIV money will require organizations to condemn prostitution - its a litmus test that will deter prostitutes from seeking the help they need. And will likely fuel the spread of HIV.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 12:12:42 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

The official Catholic position regarding condoms and HIV is extremely unfortunate. Fortunately, many Catholic activists and organizations ignore official teaching.


It was this exact situation that drove me away from all formal churches not just Catholic; the hypocrisy of the church members. Not just the Catholic's but of course the US Catholics provide the easiest examples to site. They claim "catholicism" but use birth control and don't subscribe to the necessity of "confession" for example. It's as if there were a new "Catholic-lite" sect. The discipline and the uncompromising rules should be the church's and the church's members strength. Yet the cavalier adherence only when it suits their lifestyle is what will doom it. Yet they refer to themselves as catholic. You can call a steer a bull, but I that won't grow him his balls back.

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 2:32:50 PM   
pantera


Posts: 210
Joined: 1/7/2005
Status: offline 		How can anybody deny evolution in this day and age? I don't know-

I believe that we are here by pure chance, but most of us don't want to acccept it... they believe that "there is a plan" ... "a purpose"... I don't think so.... certain conditions existed and life began, changed, evolved...as simple as that...

Mother nature is amazing, but it has to be....or we wouldn't be here


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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 6:28:45 PM   
onceburned


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From: Iowa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
It's as if there were a new "Catholic-lite" sect. The discipline and the uncompromising rules should be the church's and the church's members strength. Yet the cavalier adherence only when it suits their lifestyle is what will doom it. Yet they refer to themselves as catholic.


Merc, the official teachings of the Church are guaranteed to tbe true to God's will. They are a safe bet. But an individual is also obligated to be true to his conscience, which if properly formed, is a direct link to God.

A Catholic is justified in taking a moral stand in opposition to the Church's teaching if he is carefully examines his conscience and feels that he is following God's will rather than simply his own will. (At least that is what I remember from my catechism)

I think you are lumping two different phenomena together. The American shopping cart approach to Catholicism is troublesome. Yes, "Catholic Lite" may be an apt term. But for individuals to reach a sincere and troubled conviction that the Church is wrong on a teaching - such as the provision of condoms to prevent HIV transmission - seems to be totally separate.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 7/8/2005 6:30:48 PM >

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 6:42:11 PM   
pleasureforHim


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/2/2005
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quote:

It was this exact situation that drove me away from all formal churches not just Catholic; the hypocrisy of the church members. Not just the Catholic's but of course the US Catholics provide the easiest examples to site. They claim "catholicism" but use birth control and don't subscribe to the necessity of "confession" for example. It's as if there were a new "Catholic-lite" sect. The discipline and the uncompromising rules should be the church's and the church's members strength. Yet the cavalier adherence only when it suits their lifestyle is what will doom it. Yet they refer to themselves as catholic. You can call a steer a bull, but I that won't grow him his balls back.


Absolutely true. Which is why i keep saying, being Catholic is not for weenies. There are many struggles; many crises of faith; many hardships. The Church has a way of burdening its faithful that few other established sects can ompare to. Which other established religion outlaws birth control in any form, regardless of the danger another preganancy might cause a woman?

Then couple that with the Church's past and present hypocrisies and veniality. It is not easy for a thoughtful, reflective person to say "this is my spiritual home" when it is cluttered with such hubrus and hypocrisy.

Nevertheless, we stay. We attend Mass and make Acts of Confession. We struggle to find our way through the maze of Church teachings and real life needs and we take our faith in God and in the Church that somehow, all will be well in the end. We are far from "Catholic lite". We are people struggling with our consciences; our intellect; our needs; our Church; all at once; and trying hard to find our way to God in the miasma that results.

It's just so damned easy to ridicule te Catholic Church and its members; but it's more difficult to give respect to the Church and it's ability to trace itself to St. Peter, and to respect its members as devote, yet human, people.

pleasureforHim

< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/8/2005 6:44:27 PM >

(in reply to onceburned)
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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 7:38:13 PM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
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quote:

Well, i think i understand the sentiment behind this was not bigoted; but i would remind the author that to be a devote Catholic is to be a devote christian....we feel we are closest to the Word of God..we feel we are the One True Church. i am aware of the hypocrisy and venialty of the Church, and i do not look down on anyone who chose to leave..but ask for respect for anyone who remained and tries to find the Godliness of the Church despite its failures.

pleasureforHim



I Agree the Catholic Religion is hard. But so is the deep southern Methodist, or Luthern Religions.

There have been alot of posts on here dis~liking Christianity,
or the fact that God does not exist,
and that's ok.

Most people Realize what God Offers. "Peace, Prosparity, Love,
Money, a Wife, Husband, anything your Heart desires."

But, there's a price.

He does have laws He wants us to follow.

I think most people don't like the fact,
they can't have same sex marriages,
poly relationships, 2 husbands etc..
Because of Gods Laws.

So they want something that doesn't have laws like that.
Like the Evolutionary theroy.
They want something that doesn't tell them
what to do or how to do it.

Sincerely, Ant

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 8:51:58 PM   
wednesday


Posts: 93
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		God doesn't have any laws about same sex marriage. Men make laws in God's name.


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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 10:23:10 PM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
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quote:

God doesn't have any laws about same sex marriage. Men make laws in God's name. wednesday


Yes wednesday You are right.
But if The laws of the Bilbe where not correct, You would know.~

"Therefore pride is their necklace; they clothe themselves in violence."

Sincerely, Ant

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/8/2005 10:28:56 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Oh yes, let's go back to the same-sex marriage thread and revisit all the theological errors that the theists committed there.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/9/2005 7:08:14 AM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline 		Yes lets do that~


Sincerely, Ant

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/9/2005 8:11:02 AM   
darkinshadows


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NAH LAM COZ I WAS RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE WAS WRONG

(sorrrrreeeee - couldn't resist)

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/9/2005 11:54:08 AM   
pleasureforHim


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/2/2005
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quote:

Oh yes, let's go back to the same-sex marriage thread and revisit all the theological errors that the theists committed there.


(Assumes i am a theist; too f**king lazy to look up the word.) Made no f**king errors on the same-sex thread. In fact; have only made two errors here; a latin word which Lam correctlly spelled for me in my intro; and advice to a younger woman to lie her way out of a dilemma, which someone else corrected me on. Everything else i said was the truth; and correct. When i'm not certain of my source, i say so. When i'm not operating out of my area of expertise; i say so. My personal opinion may not agree with someone else's but, per force, it cannot be "wrong" absent the inclusion of a statement of fact or reliance on one. If i prefer everyone to mind me, well, it's an opinion, but it's not wrong. Just not likely to be met with wholesale agreement.

pleasureforhim

< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/9/2005 11:57:31 AM >

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RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/9/2005 9:42:00 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		I don't remember that you even posted to the same-sex marriage thread, but maybe my memory is failing me.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Evolution is a Lie? - 7/9/2005 11:42:34 PM   
wednesday


Posts: 93
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		I missed the same-sex marriage thread, but it's probably for the best. That never ends well.

All I can say is that there are plenty of places to point to in the text that prove it is outdated and it is unrealistic to attempt to apply the bible as literal law in modern society without some sort of adaptation... whether we're talking about creationism, marriage, or what to have for lunch. It's tough to maintain credibility when you point to the bible for marriage guidelines when it also endorses, oh, I don't know... incest to maintain the family bloodline.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 100
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