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My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 4:51:34 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		What we did in Iraq was invade a high security prison, kill off all the guards then  held elections and keep getting surprised that things aren't working out. 
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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 5:45:05 PM   
Durus


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Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline 		Your analogy suggests that the average Iraqi citizen is the equivilent of a hardened criminal. The overwhelming majority of Iraq's people, while not exactly happy we are there, are peacefully trying rebuild their lives. The majority of terrorist actions are not committed by Iraqis

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 5:50:43 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Actually, it more suggests that the Iraqi Leaders, Bush, Rove and the other Kool-Aide Drinkers think are the future of liberty and freedom in the Middle East are no more than gangland thugs who were effectively suppressed by Hussein.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 8/14/2007 5:51:06 PM >

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 5:51:16 PM   
Sinergy


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A better comparison would be attacking a military fortress, killing lots of people, destroying a country's infrastructure, letting them keep their weapons, and then standing there looking like a complete doofus as we pick our nose and wonder why people are still shooting at us.

Sinergy

edited to point out that this is a comment about SimplyMichael's prison analogy.

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 8/14/2007 5:52:23 PM >

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 6:11:32 PM   
Durus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Actually, it more suggests that the Iraqi Leaders, Bush, Rove and the other Kool-Aide Drinkers think are the future of liberty and freedom in the Middle East are no more than gangland thugs who were effectively suppressed by Hussein.


If the people who are leaders now truly are that thuggish they would have worked for Hussien. That assumes they are from the correct sect. Any of Hussiens dangerous opponenet were put down hard.

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 7:20:50 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		It seems like a simplistic example because thousands of Terrorists have come in from outside, commiting most of the attrocities, and stirring up the current ethnic fighting we see.  No Iraqi blew up the Golden Mosque.  The prision analogy requires that no outside agitators came in, just the former prisioners...hence it has no validity.  There are plenty of valid analogies and arguments against the war...this isn't one of them.

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 9:31:39 PM   
lazarus1983


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Status: offline 		  Bill Maher had a better analogy, which I will probably butcher in my attempt to recite it:

Some cancers you can't treat with surgery. Like lung cancer. You end up only making the cancer worse and spreading it.

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 9:56:59 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

It seems like a simplistic example because thousands of Terrorists have come in from outside, commiting most of the attrocities, and stirring up the current ethnic fighting we see.  No Iraqi blew up the Golden Mosque.  The prision analogy requires that no outside agitators came in, just the former prisioners...hence it has no validity.  There are plenty of valid analogies and arguments against the war...this isn't one of them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

LOL, the thousands of "outside terrorists", luckydog is referring to,...is about 2000 fighters.Not even 5 % of the resistance,... is al-qaeda.And for that little smidgen of men,we gotta stay in Iraq?WTF!?!


Because we have to fight them there,so we don`t have to fight them here.Isn`t that the rational?
This hand full of men,are what bush is trying to frighten Americans with.

Question,to the OP ,luckydog and the heretic,...
What did the poor Iraqis do,to deserve having their home turned into a battleground to fight the terrorists?Who made us god,so that we could destroy a nation?


_____________________________

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/14/2007 10:43:59 PM   
lazarus1983


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

It seems like a simplistic example because thousands of Terrorists have come in from outside, commiting most of the attrocities, and stirring up the current ethnic fighting we see.  No Iraqi blew up the Golden Mosque.  The prision analogy requires that no outside agitators came in, just the former prisioners...hence it has no validity.  There are plenty of valid analogies and arguments against the war...this isn't one of them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

LOL, the thousands of "outside terrorists", luckydog is referring to,...is about 2000 fighters.Not even 5 % of the resistance,... is al-qaeda.And for that little smidgen of men,we gotta stay in Iraq?WTF!?!


Because we have to fight them there,so we don`t have to fight them here.Isn`t that the rational?
This hand full of men,are what bush is trying to frighten Americans with.

Question,to the OP ,luckydog and the heretic,...
What did the poor Iraqis do,to deserve having their home turned into a battleground to fight the terrorists?Who made us god,so that we could destroy a nation?



Explain to me how you know the number is around 2000. Show me your statistics backing that number up.




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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 4:42:45 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

It seems like a simplistic example because thousands of Terrorists have come in from outside, commiting most of the attrocities, and stirring up the current ethnic fighting we see.  No Iraqi blew up the Golden Mosque.  The prision analogy requires that no outside agitators came in, just the former prisioners...hence it has no validity.  There are plenty of valid analogies and arguments against the war...this isn't one of them.


USA! USA! USA



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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 7:30:21 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Laz:
"Explain to me how you know the number is around 2000. Show me your statistics backing that number up. "

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0927/p01s03-woiq.html

And there`s that sticky point,that most of the fighters come from our "friends" in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1866276/posts

Ever wonder why bush has never taken action against the Saudis?
What happened to the doctrine of"any nation that helps or harbors terrorists,will be considered terrorists"?

Why is fucking osama bin-laden,eating dates,drinking tea and having more children in Pakistan,another of our so called "friends".


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/15/2007 7:32:13 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 7:33:41 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 Question: do we really have to wait 13 more months,before we can change course in Iraq?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/15/2007 7:41:14 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 7:38:10 AM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Laz:
"Explain to me how you know the number is around 2000. Show me your statistics backing that number up. "

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0927/p01s03-woiq.html

And there`s that sticky point,that most of the fighters come from our "friends" in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1866276/posts

Ever wonder why bush has never taken action against the Saudis?
What happened to the doctrine of"any nation that helps or harbors terrorists,will be considered terrorists"?

Why is fucking osama bin-laden,eating dates,drinking tea and having more children in Pakistan,another of our so called "friends".



There are other sticky points.  Like the kids that came back that i talked with who pretty much all agree that the iraqis basically hate us.

Now thats our troops coming back that have actually worked with some of the iraqis not some cammander giving us spin.

Oh that and we already have saudi arabia in our hip pockets, but we do not have the others from the ME.....(yet)


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/15/2007 7:39:40 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 7:48:41 AM   
domiguy


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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Durus

Your analogy suggests that the average Iraqi citizen is the equivilent of a hardened criminal. The overwhelming majority of Iraq's people, while not exactly happy we are there, are peacefully trying rebuild their lives. The majority of terrorist actions are not committed by Iraqis


What would lead you to believe this? Almost all of the violence in Iraq seems to be Sunni vs Shia.....When these bombings occur we call it al qaeda.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSYAT71336220070815?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&pageNumber=1

< Message edited by domiguy -- 8/15/2007 7:49:57 AM >

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 7:48:46 AM   
Owner59


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Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 Still would like a good answer to why the Iraqis were so damm lucky,as to have their home land used as the world`s battle ground against terror.Ie. the "we gotta fight`m there,so we don`t have to fight`m here" doctrine.

The real battle is in Afghanistan/Pakistan(which btw,is being lost too).




_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 7:59:35 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Durus

Your analogy suggests that the average Iraqi citizen is the equivilent of a hardened criminal. The overwhelming majority of Iraq's people, while not exactly happy we are there, are peacefully trying rebuild their lives. The majority of terrorist actions are not committed by Iraqis


What would lead you to believe this? Almost all of the violence in Iraq seems to be Sunni vs Shia.....When these bombings occur we call it al qaeda.


"When these bombings occur we call it al qaeda."

And when bush does this,all the frightened republicans run, screaming like little girls to bush,saying,"Oh daddy,kill who you want,impression who you want,destroy nations and hundreds of thousands of innocent people,shred the constitution, what ever,...just don`t let the boggy man get me"

What a bunch of sheep.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 10:12:47 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		The point of my analogy was that the only people we want running Iraq we didn't want running Iraq (the Sunni) so no matter who wins the "elections" we lose.  We don't want the Shia running the place because they are allied with Iran and the Sunni that are left have been radicalized by Bush's incompetence.

In other words, there is NO victory in Iraq, there is no possible positive outcome, no matter how much we bankrupt America trying or how many America men and women we send off to be slaughtered in Iraq.

The outcome will be either bad or worse, best case we end up with a stable state allied with Iran and run by religious nutcases, worst case the country falls into anarchy and becomes an even bigger terrorist breeding and training ground than Afghanistan was before Bush fucked that place up too.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 11:15:16 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The point of my analogy was that the only people we want running Iraq we didn't want running Iraq (the Sunni) so no matter who wins the "elections" we lose.  We don't want the Shia running the place because they are allied with Iran and the Sunni that are left have been radicalized by Bush's incompetence.

In other words, there is NO victory in Iraq, there is no possible positive outcome, no matter how much we bankrupt America trying or how many America men and women we send off to be slaughtered in Iraq.

The outcome will be either bad or worse, best case we end up with a stable state allied with Iran and run by religious nutcases, worst case the country falls into anarchy and becomes an even bigger terrorist breeding and training ground than Afghanistan was before Bush fucked that place up too.


All true.We are is a pile of shit,aren`t we? Fuck!

Not so sure about the "terrorist-training-base-camp theory,though.
Iv`e heard they`re only tolerated,because we`re there.

There will be an ongoing civil war,though,whether we`re there or not.Not we`re arming both the Sunni and the Shia.

We`re fucked.....

for those that haven`t seen this.....this trickiest dick of all ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/15/2007 11:17:37 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 12:58:10 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


Posts: 233
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
LOL, the thousands of "outside terrorists", luckydog is referring to,...is about 2000 fighters.Not even 5 % of the resistance,... is al-qaeda.And for that little smidgen of men,we gotta stay in Iraq?WTF!?!

Because we have to fight them there,so we don`t have to fight them here.Isn`t that the rational?
This hand full of men,are what bush is trying to frighten Americans with.

Question,to the OP ,luckydog and the heretic,...
What did the poor Iraqis do,to deserve having their home turned into a battleground to fight the terrorists?Who made us god,so that we could destroy a nation?


Owner59, permit me to quote your reply and bold the part that 99% of America seems confused about. Bush has done a great job of convincing his base, FauxNews viewers, and blind jingoist provincials that not only is the insurgency/resistance made up entirely of "terrorists", but that those "terrorists" have Peoria next on their wish list.

There is a wealth of evidence out there (independent analyses, assessments from generals, and the Iraqi government itself) that the "insurgency" is mostly a civil war. But for Bush and his Lie Factory, it is all about "fighting 'em there so's we don't got to fights 'em here!". Shameful, for a "Commander in Chief" to so regulary and robustly lie to the American people about who our "enemies" may be. First rule of a military commander is to know his enemy, and Bush fails us - deliberately - on that front. And so many people still don't realize it because they have been brainwashed by the administration and a Washington Press Corpse that has no detectable pulse.

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/15/2007 1:01:52 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


Posts: 233
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		I'm afraid the answer to your question can be summed up by the bumper sticker I saw recently:

"How did so much of our oil end up under their soil???"

(in reply to Owner59)
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