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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/18/2007 5:23:38 PM

dragone

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(in reply to Durus)

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/18/2007 8:04:32 PM

submittous

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I admit I am not current with everything new in energy sourcing but do have a reasonable background... We've been retired 15 years and travelling around Mexico. But... it seems to me that there is no low pollution renewable practical energy source available on the face of the earth.... nukes create byproducts that we have no way of dealing with safely, surface pv panels are just too inefficient, wind generation causes all sorts of problems for birds and animals and couldn't deal with the volume needed, etc...

There are two virtually unlimited sources of energy available however, as has been discussed the sun if harnessed outside the atomosphere is one and the other is the heat generated inside the earth, Again for the amount already spent in Iraq we could have tapped into deep earth heat and use that to create electricity and/or hydogen in large quanities.

I have no doubt that the same sorts of smear campaigns that big oil has used on global warming would be used against any serious competing source of energy but if the American public were not scienctifically illiterate we could rally support for real independence, make a ton of money for America (but not multinational oil corportations) and live with millions of tons less air pollution.

Just saying...

Bill

edited to add that yes that bus in the avatar does have nine solar panels on the roof and is self sufficient for living electricty...

< Message edited by submittous -- 8/18/2007 8:06:52 PM >

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/18/2007 9:45:03 PM

cloudboy

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Officially the policy was de-baathication of the Gov't followed by a disbanding of the national army.

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/18/2007 11:03:51 PM

Durus

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So, what about the oil fields in Siberia; and of those in Alaska; just to mentin two; both combined, are greater than all the oil in the Arabias ten fold. Run out of Fossil Fuel ? You must be kidding. The Oil won't last forever...er; how long is YOUR forever. It'll outlast you and I, even if we live to be 100; and that is not too far off for some, and closer to others. The oil compainies have only one concern...to maximize profits, in the shortest amount of time, for a constant continueing future, maintaing a constant flow of ever increasing revenues.
My forever is forever. I am not the measure of the world. That being said there will come a time when the cost of getting oil exceeds that of other fuel sources. That cost include political concerns...it makes sense for us to be energy independent. Are saying that a company is concerned with profits? Go figure.

The point is...no other oil fields are being tapped into; no alternative 'cheaper' sourses are being explored...why...in a word...MONEY, or to put it another way MO MON E.
We have tried to drill in alaska but it keeps getting voted down. We try to drill off florida and it's shut down....and it isn't oil companies shutting it down. There are plenty of alternative fule sources being explored from bio-diesal to coal sand extraction. For every exxon and mobil there are a hundred small companies trying to be the next exxon and mobil.

While these debates of you all is very enlightening, interesting, informative...aside from the nasties; you all seem not to want to understand, it's all about MONEY...nothing else.
Except it isn't about money and it never has been. It's about power. Money buys power otherwise it's useless...and I don't think anyone here is mistaken about it...even the people I may not agree with on other matters.

Bush is GOD...and he rules the planet; no matter what it costs, he ain't the one that is paying, nor will pay...for anything. He is the president...and when something could have been done, nothing was done. So now you all will live with the consequesences of his doing for "YOUR' forever.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing"

Everyone did nothing...so now live with it. Stop complaining, and deal with it.
Bush is God? C'mon...be a little more melodramtic...maybe call him the devil or something. In case you haven't realised politicians haven't been paying the price for their misdeeds for a hundred years. There are still people fighting the good fight but if you start and finish with the current president you are missing the big picture. Now Burke's quote is good but leaves me wanting for a bit more meat so try this.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil. Have you ever asked what is the root of all money?"
Ayn Rand

< Message edited by Durus -- 8/18/2007 11:10:45 PM >

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/18/2007 11:06:22 PM

Durus

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Nuclear technlogy has come a long way read up on it.

< Message edited by Durus -- 8/18/2007 11:09:30 PM >

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RE: My new Iraq Analogy - 8/19/2007 6:02:04 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The builders are also the maintenance crew. Remember. This isn't the old, build it, launch it, pray nothing goes wrong.

There are PEOPLE ONSITE, so over those 50 years, the things that break -- get fixed.

Onsite? In a geosynchronous orbit 22,000 miles above the other, gently oscillating north and south to stay generally over the same place on earth.

How much energy will it take to loft that much mass to build a space station in orbit?

How long can those people stay up there fixing?

They would need to be living on the space station / microwave thingie or their communication would ruin the communication of the microwave emitter.

quote:

quote:

On earth, we can go in with our swiss army knife and fix it, move things around, replace parts, etc., and scrap it / recycle it when we are done. In space, we cannot.

This is a very important point. WHY CAN'T WE? Because we send "astronauts" who need to work in shitty suits.

Get rid of the shitty suits, and send real engineers and construction workers and they *can* move things around, replace parts, etc...

And we *can* recycle it. Don't *ever* neglect the usefulness of being able to lift large masses to orbit cheaply.

Well, that is the first issue. We dont have a cheap way of lifting large masses into orbit.

Solve that one, Im right behind.

As far as your general idea that we should do it because, I am right with you.

I am just pointing out that since plants can do it (letting the sun move the energy through the atmosphere) without all the fuss and bother and the like, why cant we?

Sinergy

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 8/19/2007 6:05:14 AM >

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