Mental Standards (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> Mental Standards (8/14/2007 6:56:45 PM)

 
We hear a lot about physical standards and physical attraction (important to be sure), but I've been curious about this for awhile and I suppose now is as good a time as any to ask. Just how good does your sub/slave's mind have to be? How educated? For us, it's the most important thing in a relationship that our partner be intelligent and able to carry on an intelligent conversation. Looks are good, have to have those too but they simply aren't as important as a big sexy brain. Or rather, having that sexy brain makes what might have been an ok person physically very attractive.  As others enjoy knowing that their owners have strict physical standards and they have made the cut, I enjoy knowing I made his cut of intelligence. We know that our bodies will change as we grow older and we don't feel a relationship based primarily on physical attraction is likely to be as sound 40 years down the line as one based on mental attraction. Do you insist that your submissive or slave have a working knowledge of history or some subject that you can talk about and have differing opinions about for sound reasons? I know that Valyraen loves when I have a sound argument that makes him think about his stance on an issue - it causes him to rethink his own opinions and either strengthens them or changes his mind.  Do you require your sub/slave to do things to keep their mind in shape? Take classes, write essays, read a book on some new subject, or learn a new craft? While it's important to keep the body in shape, we see it as being just as, or even more important, to keep the mind in shape. And yes... this post had the Valyraen paw of approval. [;)]



Level -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 7:13:40 PM)

Great post.
 
The answer is yes, it matters. I'm interested in politics, history, theology, and books. I like thinking, and reasoning. I like people that are able to use their brains for something more than a spacer plate for their ears. [;)]
 
However.... I have met some women that had such a terrific sense of humor, and a gentle heart, and they had a genuine interest in me (and put up with my babbling, even when they didn't understand half the shit I was talking about) (and that's okay, I probably didn't understand half of it, either), that those things overcame a ....... lack of IQ, I guess.




ownedgirlie -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 7:20:55 PM)

He finds me quite bright and capable which, next to my submission, is what enjoy enjoys about me.  But however bright he finds me, he still runs circles around me with his knowledge. 

He has developed my mind by way of analytical reports, essays, and sending me back to school.  He is always giving me challenging assignments which require me to think deeply.  "I don't know" is never an acceptable answer for him, ever.  And if he asks me what I think or feel about something and I really don't know, I can be certain I'll owe him a report on it the next day, having to explore my mind and heart so that I do know.  He has taught me to think on my feet, to think for myself, and to understand myself and others. 

A couple weeks ago for fun, he was asking me exam questions he was giving his students, and grinned as I got many of them right.  He has always said I'm more capable than I've given myself credit for...and I'm beginning to trust him on that. :)



Durus -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 7:21:30 PM)

Fantastic question. It has become more and more important to me as I think it has resulted in the majority of my failed relationships.

Not that I consider myself more intelligent then all of those individuals but we certainly had different philosophies. Everything else can be great but the "everything else" can actually coverup the lack of fundemental understanding.



AquaticSub -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 7:28:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

He finds me quite bright and capable which, next to my submission, is what enjoy enjoys about me.  But however bright he finds me, he still runs circles around me with his knowledge. 



For us, it depends on the subject. For example: He runs circles around me in regards to computer hardware, game editing (mods for Oblivion), biology, English major type things and how computers actually work. I, on the other hand, run circles around him in the areas of history, historical costuming, art and just things... old. [:D]



Level -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 7:30:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

"I don't know" is never an acceptable answer for him, ever. 


Good for you both, owned. [8|] Nothing wrong with not knowing, but not caring enough to know, or not being able to know, wouldn't sit well.
 
Another couple that I would add is: if you disagree, fine, but when asked why, an answer of "just because", or, "I just don't like that"; not good enough.



feastie -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 7:31:57 PM)

One day you too will suffer CRS, graaaaaahhhhhhsshoppahhhhhhh.



MadRabbit -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 7:37:19 PM)

Yes, it matters, but as far as specifics, I cant really give them.

I dont have a "type". I dont have certain standards that I can list off the top of my head as criteria I use when finding a partner. Its not my methodology because I find it to be limiting.

I go by whether or not I am physically attracted to a human being or not. They either they are or they arent. Redheads, blondes, brunettes, short, tall, plump. They simply either are or arent attractive. I dont have a particular personality type either...its simply whether or not I can get along with them (which is usually not alpha types).

As far as mental standards, its based on whether or not this person can interest me, hold their own in a debate against me, make me think and stimulate me.

However, there is always exceptions. For example, the other day I went to have a cup of coffee with a 20 year girl who was incredibly cute, the submissive personality that I love, and quite intiellgent. We had great conversations in the past about philosophy, but this time we got into the subject of religion where she began to take the bible in literal terms, argue with me that the world was created in 7 days, evil was the byproduct of eating an apple, and homesexuality was a sinful behavior that could be corrected.

And that was the end of that.

I've dated incredibly attractive girls who bored me mentally and very smart girls who just simply didnt do it for me as far as physical chemistry.

I'm secure with my own intuition and self awareness so if there is something that is really disrupting the chemistry, I will know it and then thats that. Because of that, I dont feal the need to search for a "single type" but rather just date different people who intrigue me and enjoy their company.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 8:56:09 PM)

Reposted:

Not only intellect, but education is highly important to me as well (ie degrees count), as well as intellect and understanding in at least some of the same key areas that I have.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_963913/mpage_1/key_intelligence/tm.htm
Intellectual appeal

http://www.collarchat.com/m_774565/mpage_1/key_intelligence/tm.htm#774679
Intelligence?



FangsNfeet -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 9:01:38 PM)

State of mind?

I made the choice not to date or be romanticly envloved with people who are bi polar or have schitzophrenea.

Inteligence?

I only ask for skills in organization, memory, common sense, and have some wit to challenge me with.

Social skills?

My taste goes towards people who are shy, reserved, smiles from time to time, and able to kill when royaly pissed. As much as I am attracted to shyness, I also want to see confidence in there abilities and being able to stick up for themselves.

Keeping mind in shape?

We read books, keep up with current events, play a few games, and challenge ourselves with decorating and cooking projects.

That's it in a nuttshell  



MzMia -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 9:10:28 PM)

Wonderful and interesting thread!

I certainly have very high "mental standards", but even more important than that, too me is:
my moral standards.
 
I love this lifestyle because I am a naturally Dominant woman {from the womb to the tomb}.
But, I did not leave my values, standards and morals at the door, when I checked in here.
 
If I am not impressed with you as a person that I can also respect, admire and be proud of, you are NOT for me.
Character, integrity, values, sincerity, honesty and trustworthiness are not values that I take lightly.
IF I feel you do not have them, you are not the person for me.
I want someone by my side {or under my feet}, that I am proud of and value as a great human being.
Normally, people like that are well educated either through academia or self taught.
 
You can have all the degrees in the world and be nasty, stupid, boring and not have common sense.
Ted Bundy had a Masters Degree and he was a serial killer, you need more than higher education to impress ME.


My grandfather did not finish 6th grade, he read the paper every day, watched public t.v. and owned a nice
home, and lived to be 96.  Again, he did not finish the 6th grade but he was well read, well versed, had common sense, knew what was happening in the world, and totally self sufficient into his 90s.
He is one of my hero's, and I will not settle for anyone that is below his level.
Peace



Padriag -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 9:11:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Just how good does your sub/slave's mind have to be? How educated?
 
Education beyond the high school level generally doesn't impress me... I've just never been much impressed with most college degrees.  However, I like a slave to have an "above average" mind.  How exactly I define that isn't an exact science... it could be an above average IQ (say 120+) but not necessarily, it could be a very creative / imaginative mind (which is not directly related to IQ), it could be someone gifted in specific ways.  Something about their mind, the way they think, has to intrigue me.  A former girl actually had an IQ higher than mine, and I liked that about her (in her case).

quote:

Do you insist that your submissive or slave have a working knowledge of history or some subject that you can talk about and have differing opinions about for sound reasons?

A slave who shares some of my interests in history, poetry, the middle ages, various sciences, philosophy, psychology, etc. will be more appealing to me.  But one with their own interest can likewise be appealing.  One girl I was very fond of had majored in criminal psychology and was particularly interested in serial killers, a subject I'd never really studied.  My field was behavioral psychology, which could be applied to hers, but she regularly made me think... not too often you stay up half the night having a romantic convesation about serial killers!  LOL

quote:

Do you require your sub/slave to do things to keep their mind in shape? Take classes, write essays, read a book on some new subject, or learn a new craft?

Yes, though being around me might qualify by itself.  I've always been one to encourage (and at times push) a slave to keep her own talents alive, as well as to develop new ones.  To "stretch" herself mentally and try new things.  And some of it would be training simply to please me, things I would expect her to learn in order to better serve me.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 9:12:17 PM)

I need my boy or boys to be able to keep up with me intellectualy. Someone who cant hold up a conversation, someone who is comfortably ignorant about many subjects or who doesnt hold strong opinions on anything wil never keep me interested. I want someone with the passion in at the very least ONE subject to be able to argue with me about it.
I dont hold someone's mental issues against them unless they turn them into excuses.  I am bipolar, and I know full well how it can affect things.  I also know when someone is bullshitting me and blaming a disorder for something they screwed up.
I prefer the shy, unassuming types. The ones that if I didnt start theconversation would be happy to sit there and say nothing. However, these are the same boys that once you get them started on a subject, it will be a VERY long conversation.  Angel is like that. We can sit in very comfortable silence for hours, but once I get him started on a subect... I know full well he is unlikely to shut up.  Its part of what I love.

DV



MySweetSubmssive -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 9:30:41 PM)

Brains are wicked sexy to me, and in terms of attractiveness weigh in far more heavily than looks.

I like people who are interested in some of the same areas that I'm interested, as well as having their own area of expertise.  It creates a dynamic connection.  It seems a little contrived to set specific standards on areas of interest.  I tend to go for the gestalt and know what I like when I see it.  The biggest draws for me are creativity and openness rather than strictly education.  I spent time with a submissive who had two PhDs and I thought I was going to be in horny brain heaven.  He was actually a little ... mentally armored, stuck in his head.  So brain has to be tempered with heart.

Oddly, my last partner was not an intellectual giant, something I never got because he was so wise.  He was a Reader's Digest reading dude, but he was very much attuned to people and human interactions.  I learned a lot from him.  That brings up the concept of what kinds of intelligence we look for.

As an aside, I met a man who said that high IQ was really important to him in a spouse (to breed uber-intelligent kids, dontchaknow).  Following a hunch, I played devil's advocate and asked him if he would go so far as to ask his potential spouse to take an IQ test.  He said yes and I asked him scores on a few standardized tests.  The kicker was that he couldn't get into the high IQ societies he wanted his partner to be a part of.  Oh well, I guess we all have our fetishes ...

A little rambly, I know.

MSS



MySweetSubmssive -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 9:33:40 PM)

(because my edit function isn't work)

... and I am really turned off by intellectual elitism.  It makes me ill.

MSS



SunNMoon -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 9:57:45 PM)

Cutting to the questions, and I do like this topic. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Just how good does your sub/slave's mind have to be? How educated?


 
I like the person that I'm with to be smart, and have a sense of humor. The level of education, I perfer is to be undergrad. degree. But most of the peole that I have a desire to date or have been in a relationship are working on a MA or PhD. I find the mind to be the sexist part of a person.
 
quote:
Do you insist that your submissive or slave have a working knowledge of history or some subject that you can talk about and have differing opinions about for sound reasons?


I don't insist if they don't have it, then we're not in a relationship. I don't need the same subject, since I love learning it's even better when it's a new subject that I don't know at all. I love being able to talk about some subject and just know where taking two different sides to it. Nothing as fun for me.
 
quote:
Do you require your sub/slave to do things to keep their mind in shape? Take classes, write essays, read a book on some new subject, or learn a new craft? While it's important to keep the body in shape, we see it as being just as, or even more important, to keep the mind in shape.


Yes, I do. I also require it of myself and it would be anyone that I was with. I'd love to be taking classes again and would like nothing better then to be taking a class with my partner. I would also like them to read some of the books which have shaped the way I view the world as I would read theirs.
 
I also think the body needs to be in shape to help the mind to stay active. Both are equally needed. (Since I don't have mine in balance yet lol, note to self must keep going to gym)
 
Aquatic, I have to say I love this topic. Also love seeing what everyone has written.
 
Edited to add, that who the person is, is still the most important for me. If they have a good character and are kind hearted then I'm pretty much have everything I could ever need from them.



MzMia -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 10:02:27 PM)

SunNMoon?  Good character and a kind heart go a long way with me.
 
I agree that this is a wonderful topic. [;)]



Honsoku -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 10:11:13 PM)

Intelligence is very important to me. I don't require the typical demonstrations of intelligence like high school graduation, college degrees, IQ tests, etc as they are only indicators and not proof (personally I never attended K-12). Plenty of people with less than decent intelligence manage to graduate high school and obtain a degree of some sort, and plenty of bright people don't do any of that. Really can't tell how intelligent someone is until you talk with them for a while. My hard limit is foolish people (they drive me nuts), though beyond that attitude matters a lot. An average, open, inquisitive mind is much more enjoyable to be around than a brilliant closed one (though brilliant and open would be best). Being able and wanting to learn is very important. The only non-basic subject I would require a sub to have or learn post haste is a working knowledge of self defense. I would expect any sub of mine to continue to improve their mind, though the exact method would depend on the person.

Honsoku



SunNMoon -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 10:26:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

SunNMoon?  Good character and a kind heart go a long way with me.
 
I agree that this is a wonderful topic. [;)]


I think I'm going to assume that it's the same for most everyone.

Kat [:)]



Honsoku -> RE: Mental Standards (8/14/2007 10:35:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

As an aside, I met a man who said that high IQ was really important to him in a spouse (to breed uber-intelligent kids, dontchaknow). Following a hunch, I played devil's advocate and asked him if he would go so far as to ask his potential spouse to take an IQ test. He said yes and I asked him scores on a few standardized tests. The kicker was that he couldn't get into the high IQ societies he wanted his partner to be a part of. Oh well, I guess we all have our fetishes ...


Heh, anyone who would use an IQ test as proof of intelligence has just demonstrated their lack thereof.

Honsoku



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