RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions

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DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 1:16:47 PM)
Like it or not Mis....some people do abuse the "consideration" angle. Read back a few pages and see what was written in detail. I was the author of that quote and I stand by it. That is EXACTLY how some "doms" use the consideration thing. We never said "Under Consideration" was bad..we said speech restrictions, invasions of provacy, etc....were bad and sorry....they are if they are not consented to in an informed manner. I doubt there are very many engagement rings given out with the caveat that you are to have no contact with any men, that the finacee can open all your mail and email etc., have all your passwords......come on MisPandor...think about what you're saying... LOL. DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: MisPandora I must have missed this from elsewhere in this huge thread: " "Under Consideration" is a joke - an insecure child's way of preventing the loss of something they do not even own yet." " That's like saying an engagement ring is for pussies who can't just buck up and get married today. Come on people, think about what you're saying LOL

Hisbellaluna -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 1:32:02 PM)
oi i was so not gonna respond to this again, but do you hear yourself? or read what you type or whatever? cause...uhhhh...yea, sometimes it is as simple as he said...not everything has to be 7 leagues under the sea to be meaningful...and not everything shallow is meaningless... goes to do some finger bondage so she doesn't insult the posters who's opinions and scope of experience differ from hers (had to think that one out so as not to insult other groups) now where did i put that ball chain....

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 2:09:28 PM)
DS4DUMMIES: As it happens I don't care what you do or what you have wasted your time on. FWIW, I don't place any communication limits on my slave. But if I did for some reason, it would be none of your or anyone else's business. I can absolutely see circumstances under which I would take control of the social habits of my slave if she did not act on her own behalf prior to my having to step into the situation. There are some other claims in this thread worth clarifying. One claim is that subs/slaves should not be placed "under consideration" so that they can continue to shop around for their best match. As stated before, I don't see my training a slave as preparation for that slave to be with other masters - I train her for my use. I don't care if she finds her "perfect" match or not (as if finding a "perfect" match were even possible). I'm not running a dating service for anyone but myself. Jealous much? The alternative claim is that a slave is placed "under consideration" so that the proposed master can continue to shop around. That may or may not be true, it depends on who is establishing the boundaries of the relationship. But again, what business of yours is it what others decide for themselves? The last time I told a slave to place herself under my consideration she had my full attention and I was not shopping around, so that's not why I wanted the "under consideration" message communicated. It was just a heads up that the slave was effectively surrendered to me already. But why should you care anyway?

Cuckme4Life -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 2:37:25 PM)
SugarMyCharro: The word "criteria" would be a better fit, yes. As my particular criteria would be not to get involved with a loony coming out of the gates screaming demands of me, a total stranger to begin with. I am not sure she ever even got my name. But what does one do if your email box is being filled with messages of " I AM WAITING!!" when its 4 am when email like that is sent? Who sane person would respond to such a Domme/dom? Not me!!! i prefer a rational person ????

NControlofU -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 4:07:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cuckme4Life But what does one do if your email box is being filled with messages of " I AM WAITING!!" when its 4 am when email like that is sent? You simply hit the "Block Sender" and "Delete Message" buttons.

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 5:39:56 PM)
OK...the operative words here in your post are "my slave"....which implies a relationship, in place, consented to on informed terms ....not a woman you have found online and have put all manner of restrictions on without having a clue who she is, what she is, what she needs, or what she knows - nor a relationship in place that confers the right on you to make demands such as we have been discussing here. I'd not be critical of your placing communication limits on your slave if that is what you both agreed to. This entire discussion was never ABOUT that situation....but there is no way a woman can be your "slave" if she is still under consideration. Again, you don't own a car just because you put a deposit on it. I actually agree with that first paragraph by and large, and yes it wouldn't matter to you if I did or not.... How do you "prepare" a slave who is not yet yours? As for "Jealous much?"....that's a tad childish, isn't it?...I mean...come on...let's not sink to the "I can do it and you can't, nyah...nyah..." level. :) You really do have a strong sense of self-importance. Sugar, I really don't care what you do, and never said I did, never once mentioned a thing about "your" relationship.... but...just as you responded to me...it's a bit of self-aggrandizement on your .....OR my part,......to think we can simply post something on a public forum and no one will comment if they disagree. Put it out there and people will comment. I may be one who does. <shrug> DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro DS4DUMMIES: As it happens I don't care what you do or what you have wasted your time on. FWIW, I don't place any communication limits on my slave. But if I did for some reason, it would be none of your or anyone else's business. I can absolutely see circumstances under which I would take control of the social habits of my slave if she did not act on her own behalf prior to my having to step into the situation. There are some other claims in this thread worth clarifying. One claim is that subs/slaves should not be placed "under consideration" so that they can continue to shop around for their best match. As stated before, I don't see my training a slave as preparation for that slave to be with other masters - I train her for my use. I don't care if she finds her "perfect" match or not (as if finding a "perfect" match were even possible). I'm not running a dating service for anyone but myself. Jealous much? The alternative claim is that a slave is placed "under consideration" so that the proposed master can continue to shop around. That may or may not be true, it depends on who is establishing the boundaries of the relationship. But again, what business of yours is it what others decide for themselves? The last time I told a slave to place herself under my consideration she had my full attention and I was not shopping around, so that's not why I wanted the "under consideration" message communicated. It was just a heads up that the slave was effectively surrendered to me already. But why should you care anyway?

MisPandora -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 6:48:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES Like it or not Mis....some people do abuse the "consideration" angle. Read back a few pages and see what was written in detail. I was the author of that quote and I stand by it. That is EXACTLY how some "doms" use the consideration thing. We never said "Under Consideration" was bad..we said speech restrictions, invasions of provacy, etc....were bad and sorry....they are if they are not consented to in an informed manner. I doubt there are very many engagement rings given out with the caveat that you are to have no contact with any men, that the finacee can open all your mail and email etc., have all your passwords......come on MisPandor...think about what you're saying... LOL. DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: MisPandora I must have missed this from elsewhere in this huge thread: " "Under Consideration" is a joke - an insecure child's way of preventing the loss of something they do not even own yet." " That's like saying an engagement ring is for pussies who can't just buck up and get married today. Come on people, think about what you're saying LOL Notice that the quote was taken in the context of "under consideration" being ridiculous ONLY. There was no mention of the other separate topic (two that were unfortunately comingled in the original post). They are two entirely separate issues. Banning the concept of "under consideration" is just plain idiotic for so many reasons I just can't even wander down that path. There are plenty of legitimate folks out there who have used and will continue to use this concept and not do it to harm people. Openly stating your intention to become involved with someone else demonstrates a desire to explore a relationship. When did that become a crime? The concept that you folks are pissing and moaning about is not someone being "under consideration" -- it's what you consider an abusive trait of a dominant restricting the communication of a subject (whether they own them or not.) That too can be argued until the cows come home. Like it or not, many many people who are ethical and intelligent have and will continue to do this very same thing you think will bring tragic harm to an individual with little or no consequence, or perhaps a behavioral improvement. Perhaps the topic that we should be discussing is whether any of us have the right to stick our noses in the business of other adults. We are quick to bitch when the government sticks their noses in our panties and our bedrooms, yet we tolerate it from one another.

NControlofU -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 7:15:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisPandora Perhaps the topic that we should be discussing is whether any of us have the right to stick our noses in the business of other adults. We are quick to bitch when the government sticks their noses in our panties and our bedrooms, yet we tolerate it from one another. I dont tolerate it and I dont accept it. No matter what anyone else says I should do I am still going to keep doing things my way.

shellzbythesea -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 7:58:38 PM)
Being a newbie who has many questions on this "under consideration" phase of D/s, i am watching this thread with great interest. Odd that i agree with many of the different viewpoints. For instance, i do believe (especially being new) that restricting a sub from contact with others can be negative for the sub who is new to the experience and trying to cull the real Doms from the "fake" Doms who are here solely to prey on those of us with limited knowledge and experience. On the other hand, i can atest to the observation that the first thing a sub receives after putting up any notice of being under consideration is a slew of emails from Doms who will tell the sub that only players and fakes use the term "under consideration." Shame that it's so damned hard to know what to do and who to trust when you're new.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 8:19:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES ....which implies a relationship, in place, consented to on informed terms ....not a woman you have found online and have put all manner of restrictions on without having a clue who she is, what she is, what she needs, or what she knows... No, actually I found her here - on CollarMe - about two and half years ago. I don't crow about it a lot because it's my private business. Where there wasn't a relationship we made one - entirely on my terms. And at first, whereas I may have thought I knew her well enough to place her under consideration - I certainly came to know her far better still. I think that rhetorically you want to think that there is some kind of informed consent that takes place before the relationship begins - I would argue that one learns instead by just being in the relationship. I just asked her about some of this material we are discussing...she says she's far happier than she ever imagined she would be and that the main thing I do that no one else has ever done before was to really listen and pay attention to her. So I'll agree with you there - one must come to know one's slave inside and out, backward and forward. The question is: when does that happen? quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES I'd not be critical of your placing communication limits on your slave if that is what you both agreed to. We don't have to agree. I say it. She does it. End of story. quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES How do you "prepare" a slave who is not yet yours? It requires a lot of time, communication, patience, and the sufferance of several false starts. But one has to lay the necessary groundwork before getting truly serious. Call it obedience training, if nothing else. It's much more than that though.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 8:21:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shellzbythesea Shame that it's so damned hard to know what to do and who to trust when you're new. Be your own light. Common sense is your best friend. Also, listen to your gut feelings.

hisdevotedtoy -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 8:58:33 PM)
So, also new to D/s, and my first post, with hopefully lots more in the future, I was following this with great interest. I met my Master on this site almost a year ago, and we simply used it as an outlet to meet, in real time. Purely online D/s is simply something, I don't quite understand. Not downgrading it in any way, it is probably very fullfilling for some, but I just don't quite understand the practices of it. After Master and I met and things developed I guess neither Master or I felt the need to advertise that with the whole "under consideration" thing. On my own accord, I eventually deleted my profile, as I no longer saw the need to have one. With which after having done that, he was disappointed that he could not read some of the silly emails I had received. It however would seem that 'under consideration' would have the reverse desired effect. That is only a guess. Seems like the 'forbidden fruit' sort of thing. Now that I myself am taking more time to reach out into the community, the practices of others intrigue. Nothing more, no judgement. I am sure that there are things Master does with me, and vice versa, that others would not agree with, but isn't that with everyone? Subsequently, I have returned to the source of my original connection to the community. I came across a few profiles that say 'under consideration'. This obviously does not offend me, and I can only speculate that any Dom/me that may be using this term is not ALWAYS doing it to restrict contact because they are afraid something will get out about them, but more or less for the submissive to begin to feel their Dominance within the subs life. Obviously, there are those few people that are abusive, that are manipulative, but hopefully that charade can only last so long, and the sub 'under considering' would recognize that. But even so, I am sure there are just as many Dom/me's who don't use that term that are just as abusive, and manipulative. Honestly I think, the subs writing this in their profile, probably really love doing it. In some rather small way it possibly is saying, they are beginning their path of being owned, and are broadcasting it to the world, or at the very least the CM community. And hey, I think thats great. I don't think anything should be banned, one would hope as an adult we all have the intelligence enough to decide what is right, wrong, safe, and well, sane. If the reason for using it is to restrict, I don't believe that will happen. However, (on a very light side note) If I were a Domme searching for 'the one' and I searched using a site where every other sub had 'under consideration' in their profile, or things like 'don't contact me' etc. I would probably be rather frustrated at the lack of inventory left. Giggle. Maybe that is where the original poster is coming from. Maybe His toy

slavegirljoy -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 10:40:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hisdevotedtoy Honestly I think, the subs writing this in their profile, probably really love doing it. In some rather small way it possibly is saying, they are beginning their path of being owned, and are broadcasting it to the world, or at the very least the CM community. And hey, I think thats great. This is exactly how it was for this owned slave when my Master and i reached that stage in our developing relationship. Although, for me, it wasn't just in a small way. It was a big step for me to take. It wasn't something i took lightly. It really meant something serious to me and it was a very good feeling. It made me feel as though my long search might finally be coming to an end and my goal of becoming an owned slave might finally be realized. It did feel good to make that announcement on my profile and it did cut way down on the number of emails i was getting from other Doms. So that was an added benefit. quote: I don't think anything should be banned, one would hope as an adult we all have the intelligence enough to decide what is right, wrong, safe, and well, sane. If the reason for using it is to restrict, I don't believe that will happen. i think so too. quote: However, (on a very light side note) If I were a Domme searching for 'the one' and I searched using a site where every other sub had 'under consideration' in their profile, or things like 'don't contact me' etc. I would probably be rather frustrated at the lack of inventory left. Giggle. Maybe that is where the original poster is coming from. Maybe His toy This is probably a reasonable theory as to why so much disdain for the use of "Under Consideration" around here. Welcome to CM and to the message boards. slave joy Owned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

Viridana -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 11:08:48 PM)
As silly as I feel all this "under consideration" stuff is, I think it's even more silly to put any effort of any kind into banning it.

hisdevotedtoy -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/22/2007 11:19:26 PM)
thank you for the welcome, slavegirljoy. I must apologize, i didnt mean my use of words "in a small way" to mean unimportant. Just meant that it may not reach a lot of people, but it is rather symbolic as you had stated. When i had my original profile when i was searching i didn't use the quote and it's not like i could run out and tell all of my friends. So i missed the opportunity for such an announcement. I do see the importance. Thanks, His toy

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/23/2007 3:32:27 AM)
OK...fair enough. No disagreement here. Turns out once again that when you slide away all the posturing and bravado on both sides of an issue we may not be far apart in our views on some things. That alone makes this sort of discourse a good thing. I do want you to know I was not, and never was refering to your relationship, and from what I read below, it would have been entirely wrong to have done so. I was still going on about the unscrupulous and the predatory folks, and reacting to the notion that all subs want to do is be told what to do. Seems like your relationship is long term and solid and my compliments and best wishes for that :). DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES ....which implies a relationship, in place, consented to on informed terms ....not a woman you have found online and have put all manner of restrictions on without having a clue who she is, what she is, what she needs, or what she knows... No, actually I found her here - on CollarMe - about two and half years ago. I don't crow about it a lot because it's my private business. Where there wasn't a relationship we made one - entirely on my terms. And at first, whereas I may have thought I knew her well enough to place her under consideration - I certainly came to know her far better still. I think that rhetorically you want to think that there is some kind of informed consent that takes place before the relationship begins - I would argue that one learns instead by just being in the relationship. I just asked her about some of this material we are discussing...she says she's far happier than she ever imagined she would be and that the main thing I do that no one else has ever done before was to really listen and pay attention to her. So I'll agree with you there - one must come to know one's slave inside and out, backward and forward. The question is: when does that happen? quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES I'd not be critical of your placing communication limits on your slave if that is what you both agreed to. We don't have to agree. I say it. She does it. End of story. quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES How do you "prepare" a slave who is not yet yours? It requires a lot of time, communication, patience, and the sufferance of several false starts. But one has to lay the necessary groundwork before getting truly serious. Call it obedience training, if nothing else. It's much more than that though.

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/23/2007 4:18:33 AM)
[/quote] Notice that the quote was taken in the context of "under consideration" being ridiculous ONLY. There was no mention of the other separate topic (two that were unfortunately comingled in the original post). They are two entirely separate issues.[/quote] Oh come on....read the post...lol. Is that asking too much of you? I typed ....and I quote.... "Like it or not Mis....some people do abuse the "consideration" angle. Read back a few pages and see what was written in detail. I was the author of that quote and I stand by it. That is EXACTLY how some "doms" use the consideration thing. We never said "Under Consideration" was bad..we said speech restrictions, invasions of provacy, etc....were bad and sorry....they are if they are not consented to in an informed manner. " Seems to me there is plenty of room in interpreting those words to come away feeling a.) not all such consideration notices are bad, and b.) that such restrictions, if done in a healthy way, are fine. [/quote] Banning the concept of "under consideration" is just plain idiotic for so many reasons I just can't even wander down that path. There are plenty of legitimate folks out there who have used and will continue to use this concept and not do it to harm people. Openly stating your intention to become involved with someone else demonstrates a desire to explore a relationship. When did that become a crime? [/quote] Maybe you can show me where in any post I've made on this subject, I claimed the concept of "under consideration" was in and of itself, in all cases, bad? My message has been pretty consistent. ******** An example. Let's say that I am selling a house and I'm not selling it via a realtor - I'm selling it directly myself - and you want to buy it. You're a first time buyer. Never once bought a house. So there you sit across from me having never done this before and I put a contract in front of you to sign. Immediately you notice that it says that while we are negotiating this sale, you may not look at other houses, and moreover, you may not have any contact with people like lawyers, home inspectors, etc. You must take my word for everything. You are not free to check on what I'm telling you, you are not free to read books on the subject or to seek a second opinion. Would you buy a house that way? Nope...you wouldn't...and you tell me so. So then I say to you, "fine...you need not follow my rules, there is no law that says you have to and yes my method is a bit unorthodox.... but if you don't I may sell the house to someone else and you will lose it."... At that point you have a choice to make. BUT...you are making the choice with knowledge of three things - my methods are admittedly by my own words unorthodox; you are of necessity choosing to place 100% trust in me, and there is a specific possible penalty for not trusting me. The choice is yours. or.... I say " You are a first time buyer and you know nothing about buying a house and the only way you can learn is if I teach you and all those other people like the lawyers and the inspectors - they will just confuse you and mess up our deal - so you need to only talk to me. If you don't then I will not deal with you." In the latter, there is clear coercion. The seller gives you no choice. His way or forget it. In the former, there is an implied threat of loss, but the deal is not killed over it. I know women who have bene approached in exactly the fashion of the latter house deal, and I know women who have been approached in the former. My whole point is that the latter** is bad news and submissives need to look out and be wary if someone seeks to isolate you in that way. [/quote] The concept that you folks are pissing and moaning about is not someone being "under consideration" -- it's what you consider an abusive trait of a dominant restricting the communication of a subject (whether they own them or not.) That too can be argued until the cows come home. Like it or not, many many people who are ethical and intelligent have and will continue to do this very same thing you think will bring tragic harm to an individual with little or no consequence, or perhaps a behavioral improvement. [/quote] OK...here I vehemently disagree. "Ethical" people do not seek to coerce or to isolate people from sources of information. It is not universally true that people suffer harm...you're right...but nor is it even remotely true that they do not. Again, it is situation-specific. [/quote] Perhaps the topic that we should be discussing is whether any of us have the right to stick our noses in the business of other adults. We are quick to bitch when the government sticks their noses in our panties and our bedrooms, yet we tolerate it from one another. [/quote] When did I tell you, to stop whatever you are doing? Not once . I offered an opinion and because it differs from yours, I'm trying to tell you what to do? Everything posted on this forum profers a thought or opinion on some or another aspect/activity of this lifestyle. Because we are not a homogeneous lot, and we all have different views and activities - by definition, ALL posts here will be contrary to the way SOMEONE does things. So by your definition, every single post here is sticking a nose where it doesn't belong. You know better than that. DS4

MisPandora -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/23/2007 11:40:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES stuff that I can't even comment on Your quote wasnt even attributed because I didn't KNOW where it came from....as it was 10 posts removed from where you'd posted. I made a comment on the fact that "under consideration is ridiculous" only. Period. I had no idea what else was in your post that you're not carrying on about. I even SAID that I didn't see the post where someone made that quote from. OK? End of conversation.

Stephann -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/23/2007 12:56:03 PM)
I would be hard pressed to own a human who couldn't not somehow decide what mail she would choose to respond to or not, on the internet. If she's so easily swayed from me, that some random jackass on the net can 'woo' her away, I can't see myself wanting to own her. Stephan

celticlord2112 -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/23/2007 1:06:03 PM)
Egad...11 pages of posts on this? Should we not consider this horse dead?

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