RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions

RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

Cuckme4Life -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:37:17 AM)
"When are you going to update your journal that you are being considered by a Jackson Mistress??????"--- << from an IDIOT who passed herself off as a Domme (turns out she was a lame ass faker anyways) This is the kind of emails i get after just a couple emails and maybe a couple phone chats. Not to mention many a stalking type emails from same person. "Where are you?" "Im waiting" "you better answer my emails" "are you here?" "I see you are up late, email ME RIGHT NOW". Not to mention her bad habit of trying to call my number at 3 or 4 am. How RUDE and assuming!!! Consider for a moment, IF i was to have updated my journal in this case, in reality this persons true colors eventually would have shown and i may loseout on a chance to meet a REAL DOMME ???? That is why i agree with the OP in this case. Nothing etched in stone, then no , a person should not have to post an "under consideration" message anywhere. Besides, in reality here i (like many Others/others on CM) have ran into too much BS from such a__holes and idiots who are not serious about building a relationship in whatever capacity 2 people choose to build. Sure it looks so real on a computer screen, but if their bluff ever gets called, excuses out of the yingyang start popping up on why not this weekend or next weekend or next year for that matter. In this ones case, i got sick of her stalking behavior so i called her bluff and the excuses started coming faster than a Nolan Ryan fastball.

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:39:20 AM)
Bravo! quote: ORIGINAL: sirguym If I have a potential slave 'under consideration' I would actively want them to communicate as widely as possible with whomsoever they wished, in order to check out my reputation. If they don't do that they are dangerously (for themselves) naive. If they find out or are told anything about me that gives them cause for concern, they will be welcome to raise iyt with me. I actively abjure sarcasm, irony, direct criticism, in such circumstances (and most others). If they have a problem, I want it out in the open now, and dealt with. I would concur with those that point out that socially isolating somebody, and worse deliberately forcing them to discredit themselves in the eyes of friends and family, is universally a technique employed by abusers. If somebody tries that on you, get out, it is dangerous stuff. I have had a bit of experience (check out my profile) and have in my vanilla life helped out to defend and establish in womenss' refuges and met and talked with the women residents and the women who run the support networks. I know that female submissives in particular will be approached, stalked and receive a lot of mail; some of which may be gossip, lies, attempts to manipulate or divide them from a partner. As the partner of a popular Domme (although a Dom myself) that is happening all the time. But do you want somebody who can see through the bullshit and lies to perceive the truth, or do you want some Barbie Doll or Stepford Wife. I have told a slave to go offline for a period, when she began posting stuff that seemed to me to be implicitly critical of me and which seemed to me to implicitly suggest she was available. Had she refused she would have been released, as she was contravening the clause in her contract that she should always write of me with respect; but she accepted my point and complied. But that was for a fixed period as a penaslty and warning, until issues had been resolved between us. But the uder if a a potential slave accepting limitations on their behaviour whilst they are 'under consideration' seems to me to undermine the whole concept of consensual slavery. The key thing to me when a slave signs a contract of slavery is that at the moment before she signs she is free, the moment afterwards she is not. If she were to accept termns that limited her freedom before that moment, then she is not free at the moment of signature and the agreement is not consensual. It goes back to basic contract law. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:42:31 AM)
In other words...you are confident in what you can offer someone. It would not only withstand scrutiny, it's value would be magnified. Exactly the point Michael and you made it simply. DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Considering what is out there in cyberspace and even in the real world, I figure the more contact they have with others the better. It can only make me look better by comparison.

callistaIn -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:45:24 AM)
Personally, I see nothing wrong with using the phrase 'under consideration' if I am talking with one who I am very interested in. What happens after I am placed under his/her consideration is then up to me. If I want to be weak enough to allow him/her to dictate who I can and can not talk to, then the fault lies with me; not with him/her. It's my place to state whether or not I am comfortable with this amount of control. Just my opinion and my own experiences. Best of wishes callie

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:45:28 AM)
Very well put Vampyre. Excellent points made. Thank you for the kind comment as well. DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: Vampyrefledgling DS4Dummies...do you currently have a sub in your service? Because with your last post, you probably might want to start accepting applications. As for this whole 'under consideration' thing, I am surprised by the responses. This topic has aroused far more emotion than I would have thought. Granted, I'm new at this, but I can tell you pretty quickly that I will not agree to anything (BDSM related or otherwise) that I find uncomfortable or too invasive. If a Dom wishes to have access to my e-mail/voicemail, whatever, chances are, unless that Dom is my husband (and even then...) that just isn't going to happen, unless He is willing to make that same concession, and I think everyone can agree that privacy and independence (to an extent) is an important part of every working relationship. The people who fall prey to these so-called Dom/mes who intend to victimize them (and not in a good way) frankly may be asking for it. Please, do not throw some comment about a person asking to be killed or a woman asking to be raped, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, if someone is foolish enough to get involved with something about which they know nothing and are unwilling to learn on their own, then there isn't much anyone can do to help them. Ignorance is no excuse and I just don't buy it. You cannot depend (or trust always) other people to teach you. A great deal of it is up to you. Do your homework, protect yourself, heed the warnings of those more experienced than you and ask advice. It's not rocket science. As for those who put 'under consideration' on their profiles...perhaps it is just a red herring to keep away the casual browser. ~Fledgling

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:48:26 AM)
Well put. If you are by the actions of the one "considering" you, "considered" unworthy of trust from the very outset, what sort of life would you eventually have? DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: trustingsubHF trust plays a huge role in any relationship. i was never told that i was 'under consideration', that was a 'given' when we made it past the first conversation. it is not my business how others choose to build a relationship. but, if i were not trusted enough to speak to other people (Dom's included)... i do not believe that is the kind of relationship i would be a part of! i was told that i could 'play' and to enjoy myself if i chose to... it is being totally committed to a person and having no doubt about their commitment to you. how is one to commit (from either side) if their is no trust? gaining a person's trust should not be done by reading their e-mail and IMs... that seems totally ridiculous![image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m18.gif[/image]

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:51:14 AM)
Well put Callie...the key being "If I want....." Many new people do not have sufficient knowledge of self or this manner of relating, to make that sort of choice and in a misguided attempt to "fit in", may fall prey to those who pull this isolation nonsense. DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: callistaIn Personally, I see nothing wrong with using the phrase 'under consideration' if I am talking with one who I am very interested in. What happens after I am placed under his/her consideration is then up to me. If I want to be weak enough to allow him/her to dictate who I can and can not talk to, then the fault lies with me; not with him/her. It's my place to state whether or not I am comfortable with this amount of control. Just my opinion and my own experiences. Best of wishes callie

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 6:59:31 AM)
Ahhhh..but Celeste...you made my very point. You noted that he was ok with you talking with Doms you were already in contact with and he made the same commitment to you re: other subs. It was not him taking over your email, isolating you or trying to keep other opinions away. So he is the antithesis of the insecure types. My argument is not aimed at people such as he. He was confident enough to allow you to keep the friends you already had. DS4 quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES All of these posts and no one has yet been able to explain away the obvious insecurity present in a man who, unwilling to make a commitment of his own, can't endure competition or a woman having any input but his own. Where does it say that he can't make a commitment? With us, he asked me to focus on him and not chat with doms I was not already friendly with and in return he stopped chatting with other subs and focused on me. So where's the fear and the insecurity there? We're not poly, we're monogamous so what value would there be in having three different possible partners dangling except to show that we aren't capable of actually committing? What did I lose by agreeing to this except a few weeks of my time if it had not worked out. Are you so terrified that she won't commit that you need to keep chatting to others so you won't wind up alone and needing to rethink what you want, what you have to offer, and what went wrong?

MaamJay -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 9:07:56 AM)
So DS4 ... it seems from your multiple subsequent posts that in fact, it's not the phrase "under consideration" itself that upsets you ... instead, you are actually agreeing with part of the OP in that the danger is in the isolation from other Dom/mes and subs ... that SOMETIMES but by no means always accompanies the use of the term "under consideration". And in that, as I said before, you have My full agreement. And thank you for acknowledging My earlier post [:)] Such an arrangement shouldn't be rushed, all parties concerned should agree that the relationship is potentially serious and worth pursuing to that level. And negotiation as to what the term means (and it's behavioural implications on all sides) should occur before acceptance of that consideration. Not everyone who uses it is weak, spineless, overly controlling, unable to commit or unable to be trusted! Another angle though is fairness to the other Dom/mes with whom the sub might have been talking. I don't think it's fair to them to keep them dangling in the dark, thinking they might have found the right sub for them. Better to say something like: "You know i have been talking with Dom/me Y for x time and W/we have agreed that i am under their consideration as a potential permanent partner. While W/we are exploring this fully, they are happy for me to remain friends with You, but please understand that my energies will be directed to this other relationship. i have appreciated Your advice and support in the past and hope i can continue to count on that." As a sub, when i was recovering from one heartbreak, i was talking to 2 different Doms. When things began to heat up with He who is now Master, i said just that to the other Dom. He was charming and gracious, greatly appreciated my honesty and was sincerely happy with the possibility that I might find lasting happiness. His own circumstances made Him a less than ideal choice for me, though i greatly valued His wisdom. W/we continued chatting for quite a while, but gradually He tapered off, once He knew that my new relationship was settling into relocation (for Master to me) ... and He also found a new sub who was a better match for Him. But should i ever meet Him (now i live in the same state!) ... i would give Him a huge hug and a thank you for being there for me. Had the unthinkable happened and it hadn't worked for Master and i, then i hadn't burned my bridges ... there would have been a Dom friend i could count on to be a friend and comforter. To me that is the ethical way to go about things. Perhaps what we all need to be careful about here ... is what we're actually railing about! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

satyrsnymph28 -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 9:40:03 AM)
5 pages on this thing? Wow... First off, I think the age bashing element of the replies really suck. When is someone old enough to receive some respect from someone else? We don't have a choice when it comes to age... we're born in whatever year we were born in, we're 20 or 27, or however old we are... It doesn't mean we lack opinions, or a right to voice them... and it doesn't necessarily mean we know any less, or deserve any less respect than those of you who are older. That said, I LOVE the idea of someone being under consideration. Thats even how I date in the vanilla world. One person at a time. Every relationship crosses a line of clear success or clear failure. Thats when you make the decision to move on, or if successful, potentially include others in your relationship dynamic. I would expect anyone who got involved with me to respect that, and behave the same way... and if that didn't happen, then, obviously that's a failed relationship in my book. When I'm seeing someone, vanilla or otherwise, they're ONLY seeing me. Maybe thats different than under consideration, because we're both under eachother's consideration... To me, its not a one way street...

Hisbellaluna -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 9:45:32 AM)
i figured out what the OP reeks of!! is that you Susan Powter?? "Stop the Insanity!"

Dnomyar -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 10:19:54 AM)
Might as well get in my 2 cents. I had a sub under consideration. What did that mean to the people on this site. Nothing. All of her mail both from males and females were the same. Dump him and come to me. As for me I would not tell someone who they could talk to or not. But I can see a Dom not wanting her to talk to anyone else. Why do some dumbass'es think that sex is involved in everything that we do in here.

goodandplenty -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 10:53:54 AM)
Your right, Master here means non competitor. First thing they do is isolate, relocate then proceed to crush a precious slaves spirit. Standard order of a sub life here is "I am new want to learn", " I now am collared not allowed to talk to Dom's, master reads my mail"" He is the greatest master in the world, " Master wants me to find a sister slave to serve with me", then finally I been badly used and taken advantage of. He makes a good point what a single Master does effects the whole. I consider domination carries with it a requirement on the dominant to be completive just as all alpha males must compete to keep their property. As it is going now the moral qualities of a dominant are going back wards, not just the master reads my mail, the concepts that a collar makes a sub off limits to others winning her submission and worst of all, making the slave or submissive do the job of procurement the ultimate proof of having dominance. Here is to Domination as the power to be masterful, that is inspiring obedience loyalty and sacrifice by their strength character and supreme confidence. That magic quality that makes a slave helpless putty in a masters hands. Not isolation head fucking and quilting.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 11:22:34 AM)
Well I don't really understand your post, but I can say I love having my partner read my mail- he sorts it and organizes it and lets me know what stuff I need to deal with so I don't have to waste time. A great service to me :)

slavegirljoy -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 11:46:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DS4DUMMIES LOL.....Ohhhhh....no you don't :) . You're not going to get away with THAT sort of observation unchallenged. You assume all "under consideration" labels/situations are valid, healthy situations and that is simply NOT true. i assume no such thing. i know that there are plenty of people who will take the simplest of terms and turn it into anything they want. Redefining terms, seems to me, to be a major past time of many people on this site. Anything can be perverted and turned into something that isn't healthy and goes against it's intended purpose but, that doesn't change the fact that it's intended use was healthy to begin with. quote: There are not simply two camps as you say. I'm not misinformed at all. Far from it. i stand by my statement. You made my case for me, when you made this statement about people who choose to use the term "Under Consideration": quote: the obvious insecurity present in a man who, unwilling to make a commitment of his own, can't endure competition or a woman having any input but his own. Does a submissive woman, REALLY want a scared, insecure little boy to lead her?" That tells me that you are very much misinformed about both the meaning and purpose of this term and about the character of the people using it. You don't have a clue about my Master or about me. my Master is quite secure and He made a commitment to this slave before Wwe even met. That was the message to all others who read that i was "Under Serious Consideration" of becoming the slave of Master David. He made the commitment to me that, as long as everything continued as it had been online and on the phone, He was going to take me as His slave as soon as Wwe were able to meet. And, my stating this to the rest of the CM community gave me a very secure feeling about His intentions. Master David is no "scared, insecure little boy." Again, this sort of remark only reaffirms my belief that you are very much misinformed about the purpose of using "Under Consideration" and the character of the people who choose to use it. quote: I know multiple women for whom this "consideration" stuff was nothing more than so much insecure garbage designed to hide the problems with someone by not allowing the woman a chance to get other inputs. Well, i sure hope that you set these poor women straight and showed them "the way." quote: In my personal view of a D/s relationship and all of the things that comprise it or orbit it, it is not only about consent - it is about INFORMED consent. INFORMED consent. One added word - huge difference.... DS4 i couldn't agree more, which is why i said back in Post #: 131, on this thread that quote: The important thing to remember, as far as i see it, is for the prospective Master and prospective slave to be sure that they have a clear understanding as to what exactly is meant by the use of that "term" and what is expected with it. It's no different than making sure that there is a clear understanding of any other terms used between the people involved, such as "Master", "slave", "property", "pain", "serve", etc., etc. It's not just a matter of "common sense". It's a matter of maintaining clear communications and asking questions. slave joy Owned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

MHOO314 -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 11:59:52 AM)
*Wow, OK will the person who is going around peeing in everyone's wheaties, please step forward???*

MizzElle -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 12:01:59 PM)
To each, their own. I personally haven't, don't and wouldn't ask for someone to write "under consideration by Mistress Elle" on their profile. Just as I am not going to be responsable for their every move and have to problems with them taken up with me. The whole notion is unappealing to me, but if other people like it, and it works for them, then bravo.

fieryangel21 -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 12:26:03 PM)
Wow, why is everyone being so rude? I believe punkdom is making a valid statement about safety online. It is not a good idea ever to rush into a relationship, because anybody you meet online could be abusive, fake, insane, an axe murderer, or just plain wrong for you. Submitting to someone is not something to take lightly. That said, I understand if a Dom(me) is the jealous type and doesn't want his or her sub communicating with other Doms without permission. But if someone is "under consideration," as you put it, they aren't anyone's sub yet. Both parties have the right to consider others until they decide to take the relationship to the next level. However, I also think both parties have a right to decide on exclusivity, and at that point prohibiting the sub to speak to other Doms is something they have agreed to as part of their D/s lifestyle. Subs should not allow themselves to be dominated before they have given express consent and entered into said relationship. They do have rights and shouldn't put up with any non-consensual or abusive behavior. You make a valid point and I believe most of those criticizing you don't understand what you're trying to say. Isn't it wonderful how the nice quote function can be used to take anything one likes completely out of context? By the way, this is a classic case of self-fulfilling prophecy. Punkdom expected criticism, wrote defensively, and people who probably agree with the point he was trying to make were rude. Not that it excuses the rudeness, I just am smiling that my psych classes have taught me something.

DS4DUMMIES -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 1:28:40 PM)
Maam Jay...exactly! INFORMED consent is the key. The case being that the submissive is aware not only of the things being asked of her to consent to, but that she understands fully the import of it and the degree to which it is normal to do so at that stage of a relationship, and what she is giving up in consenting. This is informed consent where her decision is made on the reality of it, not on the say-so of someone she does not even really know. Example....someone might consent to sex if their date gets them drunk - but in reality that isn't consent at all because she lacked the faculties (or in this case, the knowledge) to truly consent. So yes, I'd agree you are reading my response properly. I thought I had been making that clear but I must not have been. Sorry about that :) You're welcome about my acknowledging your earlier post, but how could I not? It was so well written. Ds4 quote: ORIGINAL: MaamJay So DS4 ... it seems from your multiple subsequent posts that in fact, it's not the phrase "under consideration" itself that upsets you ... instead, you are actually agreeing with part of the OP in that the danger is in the isolation from other Dom/mes and subs ... that SOMETIMES but by no means always accompanies the use of the term "under consideration". And in that, as I said before, you have My full agreement. And thank you for acknowledging My earlier post [:)] Such an arrangement shouldn't be rushed, all parties concerned should agree that the relationship is potentially serious and worth pursuing to that level. And negotiation as to what the term means (and it's behavioural implications on all sides) should occur before acceptance of that consideration. Not everyone who uses it is weak, spineless, overly controlling, unable to commit or unable to be trusted! Another angle though is fairness to the other Dom/mes with whom the sub might have been talking. I don't think it's fair to them to keep them dangling in the dark, thinking they might have found the right sub for them. Better to say something like: "You know i have been talking with Dom/me Y for x time and W/we have agreed that i am under their consideration as a potential permanent partner. While W/we are exploring this fully, they are happy for me to remain friends with You, but please understand that my energies will be directed to this other relationship. i have appreciated Your advice and support in the past and hope i can continue to count on that." As a sub, when i was recovering from one heartbreak, i was talking to 2 different Doms. When things began to heat up with He who is now Master, i said just that to the other Dom. He was charming and gracious, greatly appreciated my honesty and was sincerely happy with the possibility that I might find lasting happiness. His own circumstances made Him a less than ideal choice for me, though i greatly valued His wisdom. W/we continued chatting for quite a while, but gradually He tapered off, once He knew that my new relationship was settling into relocation (for Master to me) ... and He also found a new sub who was a better match for Him. But should i ever meet Him (now i live in the same state!) ... i would give Him a huge hug and a thank you for being there for me. Had the unthinkable happened and it hadn't worked for Master and i, then i hadn't burned my bridges ... there would have been a Dom friend i could count on to be a friend and comforter. To me that is the ethical way to go about things. Perhaps what we all need to be careful about here ... is what we're actually railing about! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Stop "Under Consideration" Speech Restrictions (8/20/2007 1:31:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MHOO314 *Wow, OK will the person who is going around peeing in everyone's wheaties, please step forward???* Alright, I admit it. It is I who has been pissing on people's Toasted O's. You know I can't help myself.

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875