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RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 1:42:47 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

You can't beat someone into being a good submissive.  You have to make them CRAVE being good FOR you NOT by making them fear failing.  It is a long slow process, one that isn't a good mask for a lack of patience and or anger issues which is why many love punishing.

Love, caring, patience, and vigilant attention, as well as an understanding of when they are trying are all crucial skills in forming and guiding someone to a better deeper sense of submission.  My lady often thinks she has slipped something by me but I mention it sometimes days later with a touch of disappointment and it does several things.  She knows that she is the center of my attention, that I am watching over her, that sense of security allows her to relax into me and let go of her need to control.  She feels my love and caring for her in how I deal with the mistakes and errors she makes.  I praise her when she does well and again, I try and praise her for things either she didn't notice she did better or things she might think I didn't notice.  Again, all playing back into ensuring she has a sense of my omnipotence in her life which provides security, safety, love, attention, all things submissives tend to feed on.

I have been harsh with her once, I didn't touch her or scold her, I simply cut off every means of contacting me.  Turned out it was a mistake in communication on both our parts and so we apologized to each other but she KNOWS that my attention and love IS contingent on her being my good little girl which is why she is SUCH a very wonderful girl for me.

To ME, being dominant is about leading someone and being the sort of man and creating the sort of nurturing relationship that makes her want to follow and obey me, not because of fear but because of joy.


QFT.  I noticed people were giving lots of good advice, but mine would nearly plagarize SimplyMichael.

Although I agree with the views he has here, I'd like to add some definitions.

Punishment: A direct reaction for infractions.
Discipline: A collection of teachings and practices designed to remind and enhance the lovely feeling of a power indifference. 

I use the word discipline in a few other tenses, but it's basically all the same.  "Mind your disciplines." "You're very disciplined, My Pet." "Her disciplines include oral training." etc.

Punishment, as in real punishments, (as opposed to the spankings she's growing fond of) are not enjoyable.  They are hard for her, and harder for me (although I'm sure the opposite is true for her.)  They are few and far between as I have the pleasure of owning a Pet with the desire to serve.  With me, they are rarely physical.  I have learned (the hard way) how cruel my punishments can be, and take great strides to make the punishment fit the crime.  My favorite example... Her disciplines include kneeling when she is given a gift.  She failed to do so once, so I showered her in gifts without allowing her to kneel or thank me in any way.  It was cruel, but she has since not missed one gift.  She even catches me off guard with it.

More to the point. My Pet and I haven't used a safe word yet, and I have the striking suspicion she would see using it as a way of failing me (something I might need to keep an eye on >.O).  I can understand how a good (caring and attuned) owner would not want the slave to have the power of stopping a punishment, but it all depends on how sane the master is.  Just because I am My Pet's master doesn't give me the right to push her past her limits (only the power O.O). 

If you consider discipline and punishment to be the same, and you think a safe word is not needed for punishment, then clearly a safe word is not needed for discipline. 

If you maintain that discipline more closely resembles the word 'training' than a safe word isn't such a bad idea.  Training the mind and soul is not all that different from training the body.  If you were overseeing your slave's work-outs, (the physical kind) would you want her to be able to stop it?  I don't know about you, but I think My Pet should be able to stop jogging when she thinks she needs to (unless I stop her first) before she starts puking from running so hard, so fast.

Does that make sense? It's a bit late and I have things on my mind, so feel free to ask for clarification should you desire.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 2:21:37 AM   
Mellissande


Posts: 435
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with you on this point Keeper. Firstly to punish in a way that is physical is fine and may work for some, But physical punishments can be taken too far by an angry master or even a distracted one. If anything is physical in nature, There should be a safe word in place. Especially when punishing. Slaves and Subs traditionally will not use a safe word unless they are in distress of some sort and fear that they ABSOLUTELY MUST get out of the situation. I myself will not use a safe word for fear of failing my master. That in and of itself should keep your submissive or slave from safe wording just for the fear of punishment. If it doesn't then your slave/sub is either not committed to the lifestyle, or is not compatible with your form of training and punishment. If she does so then you should definitely reconsider this arrangement you are in

Blessed Be,
Mel

((edited to say sorry if I was not supposed to post being a Submissive. I did not realize which subforum this was in until I had already posted. This is only a humble Submissive's opinion))

< Message edited by Mellissande -- 8/21/2007 2:26:06 AM >

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 4:36:11 AM   
goodpet


Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking
Well for me there is always a safe word no matter what. The thing is that if she is using it as a way of getting out of being punished then she will be punished 10 times worse.
If you know the person you are with then you know when a safe word is being used for real or as a way out of something
William


Yes yes yes yes.... this is the key. If the sub uses the safe word to manipulate hopefully the Dom will know and that opens a whole new area to be addressed. The key is knowing each other. That takes time.

For me there is a difference between punishment and discipline. Discipline is more about establishing (or re-establishing) self-control, the hierarchy, the power exchange. Discipline can occur anytime when needed or just on a regular basis. Punishment, on the other hand, is done to correct a behavior that did not meet standards. It is one time event (hopefully) to deal with a need.

~ann 




(in reply to PAcpllooking)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 7:42:06 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade

Madrabbit , if you think slurring my profile whilst  not addressing myself to his person is normal behaviour , then as your responce is to me i:e when addressing another you use the Title they use as in your case Madrabbit is acepted common courtousy and though you show none i will not lower my standards to yours , and continue my letters to you showing you respect as i have from the beginning .


Yes, of course, your just quite full of respect, your first post being full of outrageous negative assumptions and harsh judgements of Goreans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
History and or your lack of it . I have given you 1 Link which is a University one so as to correctly present to you the information as to educate you that apart from the well recorded Leather B.D.S.M asociation which rose to record after world war two , late 40's to  early 50's there is recorded history and one such lady was Madame Pompedour 1721 to 1764 , so whom should open there mouth before checking the facts and not all online go to a Libary and use books in the Non-Fiction section Madrabbit just for this simple research .
http://departments.kings.edu/womens_history/pompadou.html


Well, ignoring your pompous insults and focusing solely on your "information", what you have provided here is a history lesson on French aristocracy and society. There is absolutely nothing in this article that talks about BDSM or Leather in the context of your "thousand year old society". How you have somehow made the connection from French aristocracy to the subculture we call the "Scene" is completely beyond me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
Mythical about Desade well well well , 1740 to 1814 , i dismay at the state of your idiotic statements , once again here is a Link for your further education as well as read these books written by Desade .
Philosophy In The Bedroom
120 Days of Sodom
Justine
Juliette
These larst two published in 1797 Madrabbit .
http://www.litencyc.com/php/speople.php?rec=true&UID=3901


While clearly the author had to exist to write the books, the figure depicted in the books is mostly mythical. If you want to say "S/M has been around for over a thousand years", I wont argue that. If you want to spread misinformation about some "secert black and white BDSM traditional society" that has existed for the last millenium with only some obtuse article about French aristocracy to back it up, then my orginal statement still stands....bullshit.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
A uni link once again . Now what the Hell have you to say about your ignorance voiced in public and meeting your match , i have no need to speak untruth's  unlike other's .
                                   Regards
                                               MasterLDeSade
 


Well I am mostly interested in hearing more about ignorance since your "information" has been measured and weighed and found completely lacking. Once again all you have provided here is some obtuse article about French aristocracy that has nothing to do with a thousand year old BDSM society and titles of books written by an author with unusual bedroom habits who did exist, but still doesnt change the fact that the character depicted is mostly mythical.

If you feal you have met my match with this laughable information, then...well...that in itself is laughable...which is probably why I am laughing my ass off.

But what can you expect from an Aussie spreading misinformation about a "traditional thousand year old BDSM society" with clear black and white rules and protocols with an unrelated article about French history as his evidence who feals he deserves a special degree of respect because of his uber self claimed title of Master De Sade?

Perhaps next you will validate your arguments with a claim to being the reincarated soul of Marquis De Sade and therefore, have first hand knowledge of the great powerful secert BDSM society that existed in France in the late 1700's?

And finnally, since you are bad at math, your ludicrious information only dates back to the 1700's, that makes it roughly a 300 year old traditional society and not the 1000 year old one you are claiming (if of course any of this is true which its not).

Personally, I've spent some time reading Guy Baldwin and Jack Rinnella, talking to people who have a far more indepth knowledge of Leather and BDSM history then me, and even attended an event recently by Matthew Carrey (Probably spelled his last name wrong) who lectured about Leather History and got to sit down with him and have a private conversation about some of the myths of Leather and BDSM history.

And from all this, I feal I can very safely say that any conjecture about BDSM existing as an organized society before the 1940's is misinformation and bullshit spread by Internet wankers.

Now if you want to keep argueing with me and providing more evidence that isnt evident of anything you are talking about, please feal free to. I will enjoy making fun of you.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 7:47:22 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		For those who do not know of me

An Acolyte brought it to my attention that there may be those among you who are unaware of who and what I am.  I am a Dominant of the 12th Order, a house so ancient, its origins are shrouded in the history of time, although our accomplishments are not, as we are the most respected house in all of Europe.  I myself began my training while in the womb and have continued that education unending until the present day although there are few Elders left with enough knowledge to add to my own.

In the coming year I myself shall join those hallowed ranks of Elders and thus the cycle continues.  I realize to many of you, men such as myself are the stuff of myths and legends, but I am real flesh and blood. 

For those who have never had the honor of being graced with my presence and yet wish to offer the proper greetings, I thought I would outline the required etiquette.  While this varies from house to house, it is the 12th Order that other houses seek to emulate so this etiquette will serve you well.

When conducting introductions, one always presents the inferior party to the superior party.  Just as one would never introduce the Queen to anyone else, one would never introduce a superior Dominant to an inferior, it is the inferior Dominant who is introduced to the superior ranking Dominant.  When Dominants of equal rank are introduced, the one from the inferior house that is introduced to the Dominant from the superior house.

When a Dominant or a Domme is presented to someone from a superior house, such as mine, it is proper to cross your arms across your chest and to glance downward until recognized.  This signifies that I am free to do as I wish but that you defer actions to me.  The downward glance signifies that you acknowledge your house is inferior to mine.

When a submissive is introduced, the correct greeting varies according to the sex of the submissive.  Females should arch their backs so as to present their breasts proudly but both lower their gaze and clasp their hands behind their backs.  Males should simply turn their wrists so that the inside of the palms of the hands face inwards and press the wrists together as if bound.

I look forward to meeting some of you and while I will not admonish you publicly for failing to adhere to the above, expect me to take you aside and correct you.

(and yes, this is sarcasm…)

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 8:37:28 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TopinPa

This is meant in the context of a Master/slave relationship

Since a safe word can’t be used during punishment, which it would obviously defeat the purpose; do you choose to let your slave safe word while you’re disciplining them? If so, what’s the difference? I know there is a fine line between punishment and discipline and this varies for different Masters.



In this relationship safewords can be used during punishment. I am, in fact, required to use them when I need them. He also knows that I do not abuse my safeword. My using my safeword means something is going on that he doesn't want and doesn't intend.

However, Valyraen also doesn't believe in corporal punishment. So far, I have yet to safeword out of writing grammar rules.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to TopinPa)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 8:41:38 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

actually, i'm not quite understanding the concept of a safeword being in place in a M/s dynamic. that was one of the things i gave up when i agreed to become a slave...there are no safewords, no break glass in case of emergency button.


Some owners and masters have no desire to inflict certain kinds of pain. Therefore, their subs/slaves/pets are under orders to tell when that pain comes up. Valyraen would be very cross with me if I refused to safeword when I was experiencing a certain kind of pain because, quite simply, he doesn't want to inflict it. In not telling him, I would be taking control.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 9:17:58 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Dont forget about how inferior Dominants are required to allow superior Dominants to use their slaves how they see fit with no regard to the will of the inferior Dominant!

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 11:04:52 AM   
TopinPa


Posts: 111
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		AquaticSub
daddysprop247

HeavansKeeper      

Thanks to these people, among a few others, for keeping the thread on topic and answering my OP
Throughout this thread some people steered this topic so far out in left field it's amazing uz were able to stay on topic...thanks again!

I'll say again how much I appreciate most everyone's responses


titleAndStar(243,0,0,false,"","")

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 11:31:36 AM   
PAcpllooking


Posts: 73
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: PAcpllooking



LOL Ok I think you mean that she would safe out just to get out of punishment?
Well the way I look at safe words is that if she is in distress, or something is going on in her head that really making her freak or something physical or medical is going wrong then she safes out.
Now if she safes out for any other reason, then she is really going to get it.

William


Actually if she safes out because she doesn't believe in corporal punishment and it's your primary way of teaching, then what you have here is a severe lack of compatibility.

If she's agreed theoretically to corporal punishment but safes out, you need to find out why. Are you one of those types who think that punishment is an excuse to break hard limits? Because unfortunately there are a lot of them around.

Or is there so much anger and resentment built up that she cannot respect nor obey you? Because punishing negative emotions just gets you more anger and less respect, what's needed here is honest communication and your ability to apologize for ignoring her feelings for so long and to such a degree that you've lost her trust. And then comes the hard work, changing what you've done wrong so you can slowly work to regain lost trust, love and respect.

But of course beating someone senseless is a lot easier.


My answer that you quoted was in response to someone elses post which was a joke.
I dont have any of the issues you outlined. In fact my punishment is pretty simple its putting her in a corner, period.
Like I have stated a few times here on the boards, if I have to punish someone I see it as not only her making a mistake but also me not doing my job 100%.

William

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 3:11:15 PM   
MasterLDesade


Posts: 67
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		Madrabbit  , you asked for sources , i provided them , indeed very basic information but you do not acept University Standard's of education , one example of each that went beyond your stature by proving their existence when you say there is no record . Wow of course the article will tell you in depth about C.B.T and the Triple Twist , crossdressing , Orgasm controll  ect ect ect , that is why you do an apprentership to learn these and many more applications and O.H.S of same .
You recognize the Author exsisted  and that Author is DeSade , real fact that you agree about and yes the " figure " or figures he wrote about were not real life named people as the church took a dim veiw of unusual sexual activety at that time in history and one would imagine the public reaction after being named in a book and outed .
This is your quote .
"And from all this, I feal I can very safely say that any conjecture about BDSM existing as an organized society before the 1940's is misinformation and bullshit spread by Internet wankers. "
I stated the oldest Master in my line is 80 years plus old , one would imagine that puts him by himself without his teacher beyond your " Complete B.D.S.M History " only started as an organised society theory in 1940 , which is an astoundingly short sighted view displayed by yourself , has the earth only been here since the the 1940's and recorded history start at A.D 1940 ? .
Great to see Racism in your thought's on " Aussie's "  and the cultural condemnation bigoted view well done Mate as B.D.S.M has no cultural boundary's based on where you live , colour , sexual orientation . Read my thoughts on " Black Dominant's " they have been posted .
Waffle about " Reincarnated " please , you make yourself look foolish
 . Maths , no , i gave you just 2 points , proved them , and left all the fun research to do by yourself , but as re-above you are struggling with your thoughts on culture's out side of where you live on earth , i doubt it .
                                Regards
                                            MasterLDeSade
 


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 7:58:14 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Let me guess, you  are also related to the British Royals to because they exist and you exist therefore you must be related.

The mere fact people have been fucking since before there were people doesn't make my fucking any more special than my cats.  DeSade and the rest have no relation to what I and most other reasonable people consider modern BDSM to be about.  You are just another tired wanker trying to gain stature on the graves of others, an undertaking most here find pathetic and more often just repulsive.

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 9:41:27 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade

Madrabbit  , you asked for sources , i provided them , indeed very basic information but you do not acept University Standard's of education , one example of each that went beyond your stature by proving their existence when you say there is no record . Wow of course the article will tell you in depth about C.B.T and the Triple Twist , crossdressing , Orgasm controll  ect ect ect , that is why you do an apprentership to learn these and many more applications and O.H.S of same .


I wasnt looking for CBT and Triple Twist, crossdressing, Orgasm controll or ect ect ect. I was looking for some information in your source of information that actually proved there was in fact a thousand year organized BDSM society. The source of information provided nothing of the sort, merely an account of French history which has no connection to BDSM as an organized society.

In the above quote, you have provided no counter argument, just the conjecture that I don't understand the "brilliance" of the source of information provided.

Here is a recipe for oatmeal cookies.

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Beths-Spicy-Oatmeal-Raisin-Cookies/Detail.aspx

Somewhere in this recipe for oatmeal cookies lies the answer that proves the existence of God. If you cant figure out where and what it is, thats your problem and inability to grasp the truly profound information presented here in this oatmeal cookie recipe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
You recognize the Author exsisted  and that Author is DeSade , real fact that you agree about and yes the " figure " or figures he wrote about were not real life named people as the church took a dim veiw of unusual sexual activety at that time in history and one would imagine the public reaction after being named in a book and outed .


I have recognized that the author did exist and had unusual bedroom practices. What I haven't recognized is his fictional works provide any proof or real evidence that there was in fact a secret BDSM society in existence during his time in France. It is a widely known that his books were purely fictional.
 
I can recognize Shakespeare or Charles Dickens, but this does not mean whatsoever that their fictional books about Hamlet and Oliver Twist were actually historical accounts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
This is your quote .
"And from all this, I feal I can very safely say that any conjecture about BDSM existing as an organized society before the 1940's is misinformation and bullshit spread by Internet wankers. "
I stated the oldest Master in my line is 80 years plus old , one would imagine that puts him by himself without his teacher beyond your " Complete B.D.S.M History " only started as an organised society theory in 1940 , which is an astoundingly short sighted view displayed by yourself , has the earth only been here since the the 1940's and recorded history start at A.D 1940 ? .


Its not short sighted at all. Just you twisting my words around. I stated clearly that S/M has existed for millenniums, but thats not what I am debating. I am debating your claim to a thousand year old organized BDSM society.

Just because the Earth has been around for longer than 1940 doesn't mean that a specific group of people or society has been in existence before that period of time. The Nazi's would be a good example. Their period of time existed primarily during World War II and simply because recorded history extends longer than that doesn't automatically mean they existed prior to that time. Your entire argument is jejune.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
Great to see Racism in your thought's on " Aussie's "  and the cultural condemnation bigoted view well done Mate as B.D.S.M has no cultural boundary's based on where you live , colour , sexual orientation . Read my thoughts on " Black Dominant's " they have been posted .


Once again twisting my words around. It has nothing to do with racism but rather the oddity of an Australian claiming to be part of a thousand year old BDSM society that, according to his own sources, is primarily French.

What I really think is your just another clueless, misinformed Internet wanker who borrowed some fictional books from the library and are using them as his source of "history" and "true BDSM".

The great irony here, probably unrecognized by you in your ignorance, is that you started off in this thread bashing Goreans for basing their lifestyle around fictional books written in the 1960's when in fact your own lifestyle and history is based off fictional books written in the 1700's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
Waffle about " Reincarnated " please , you make yourself look foolish


No, just you

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade
 . Maths , no , i gave you just 2 points , proved them , and left all the fun research to do by yourself , but as re-above you are struggling with your thoughts on culture's out side of where you live on earth , i doubt it .
                                Regards
                                            MasterLDeSade
 


1. If you have proved the existence of a thousand year old BDSM society with these laughable sources and fictional books, then I have proved the existence of God with my oatmeal cookie recipe

2. If you were capable of doing simple math, you would realize how silly you have made yourself look.

3. I will take your statement of "doing all the fun research by myself" to mean you don't have any actual sources of information to provide here and cant provide a direction to the "record history of a thousand year old BDSM society that surfaced in the 1940's"

I mean...really...do newbies really fall for this crap?

As I said before, if you want to keep spreading misinformation and misconceptions here on the Internet, I will continue to make fun of you like I am now.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 8/21/2007 9:43:38 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 8/21/2007 9:47:43 PM   
SweetCaleigh


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You can't beat someone into being a good submissive.  You have to make them CRAVE being good FOR you NOT by making them fear failing.  It is a long slow process, one that isn't a good mask for a lack of patience and or anger issues which is why many love punishing.

Love, caring, patience, and vigilant attention, as well as an understanding of when they are trying are all crucial skills in forming and guiding someone to a better deeper sense of submission.  My lady often thinks she has slipped something by me but I mention it sometimes days later with a touch of disappointment and it does several things.  She knows that she is the center of my attention, that I am watching over her, that sense of security allows her to relax into me and let go of her need to control.  She feels my love and caring for her in how I deal with the mistakes and errors she makes.  I praise her when she does well and again, I try and praise her for things either she didn't notice she did better or things she might think I didn't notice.  Again, all playing back into ensuring she has a sense of my omnipotence in her life which provides security, safety, love, attention, all things submissives tend to feed on.

I have been harsh with her once, I didn't touch her or scold her, I simply cut off every means of contacting me.  Turned out it was a mistake in communication on both our parts and so we apologized to each other but she KNOWS that my attention and love IS contingent on her being my good little girl which is why she is SUCH a very wonderful girl for me.

To ME, being dominant is about leading someone and being the sort of man and creating the sort of nurturing relationship that makes her want to follow and obey me, not because of fear but because of joy.


Beautiful Sir...
*sweet caleigh*

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 9/1/2007 8:34:28 AM   
MasterLDesade


Posts: 67
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		Madrabbit , this thread started as my views on " Safe Word's " B.D.S.M is the very world that most needs  ' Safe Word's " . They are intrinsic safety mechanism's so no body dies during play and you end up in goal . I will say what i have said about Gorean Mastery and slaves or submissives having a " Safe Word " but are unable to express or use it in play is total Bull Dust and courting serious Physical and Mental harm to the participants . Never Ever conduct a B.D.S.M session with any person or person's who do not agree to " Safe Word's " and signal's if they are sensory deprived as this is foolish to the extreme and i will not promote nor condone such practises by any person's or lifestyles . And harsh on Gorean quite frankly what i feel about there practises are discussed prior .
American Justice swears on ' The Bible " so do many other countries and in this book Jesus's death was due to being  Bound , Discipline , Sadistic practice of crucifiction and Masochism he knew his gig was up but did not run  , all run by the state of Rome institushionalized tourture machine , but hey madrabbits there is no such story just more of " What can you expect from an Aussie " and yes your racism boils in your judgement of another race , country or culture period , by bringing it in you dropped to that level .Judging by your the world began in b.d.s.m in 1940 nice and officially makes me wonder when you if you ever have used a Rack where did the idea come from some man in 1940 thought up the idea and " Veola " it was invented , no it is an ancient torture device a fine tuning of four horses drawing you apart .
Ah the St Andrew's Cross i bet that was post 1940 to or did in that fictitious book the Bible mention a certain famous man that particular cross and application of made it famous , no that cross never during the Medieval period got refined with upturned hooks for the happy hanger to enjoy . You know in America didn't you have a civil war over Slavery and the practises and treatment , but hey madrabbit none of those practices of Branding , amputation , whipping , hanging ect ect were ever used prior to 1940 . But whilst America was undiscovered i dont think there was any B.D.S.M activity by Europeans in that country at all , but the touture practises were imported into America by the European .
Next chat you have to Matthew Carey ask him about "Safe Word's "  and the fact that you have not mentioned in your private discussion his thoughts on safe word's leads me to the assumption that , that meeting never took place in reality and only took place in your mind .Read that last bit again madrabbit . And to the yapping dog on the sideline about protocol the very way you act show's you are neither a Master nor in control of your Mastery . And being " Real " here is a link to my advertisment on a  site which is real like myself , come to think of it you were only thirteen years old when i started my Training , so head's up little boi .
http://cracker.com.au/classifieds/sydney/personals/escorts-adult/306982701.aspx?q=mistress
                              Regards
                                        MasterLDeSade

(in reply to SweetCaleigh)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 9/1/2007 2:12:27 PM   
Shadowen


Posts: 34
Joined: 8/31/2007
Status: offline
Wasn't gonna post anything here but when people screw up history I get really aggravated.
quote:
Jesus's death was due to being Bound , Discipline , Sadistic practice of crucifiction and Masochism he knew his gig was up but did not run

Um, no. No no no. Crucifixion while it can probably be desribed as sadistic just on how long it took a person to die of exposure, dehydration and starvation, had nothing to do with discipline, sadism or masochism. Simply people while I'm sure some of the roman laegionaires enjoyed tying or nailing people to the crosses or trees (they used both by the way) it was a punishment for what might be considered a capital crime. It was a death sentence. Unless friends rescused you at night when the soldiers left which was quite common. And while I amy not be christian, saying Jesus was a masochist cause he didnt leave is idiocy. As far as I can recall masochism would mean he enjoyed being nailed to the cross not that he was doing it for a specific purpose IE being a martyr.
[quote[
but hey madrabbits there is no such story just more of " What can you expect from an Aussie " and yes your racism boils in your judgement of another race , country or culture period

Being Australian isnt a race anymore than being german is. Its a nationality or actually in the case of being germanic an thnicity. Not liking a nationality isnt specifically racist.
quote:
Judging by your the world began in b.d.s.m in 1940 nice and officially makes me wonder when you if you ever have used a Rack where did the idea come from some man in 1940 thought up the idea and " Veola " it was invented , no it is an ancient torture device a fine tuning of four horses drawing you apart .

No, a rack was a wooden table that you were tied to or chained to as the case may be , wheels turned on both ends and your arms and legs were stretched out. Verying different from being drawn by horses where there is just ropes, horses and you, no mention of a rack.
quote:


Ah the St Andrew's Cross i bet that was post 1940 to or did in that fictitious book the Bible mention a certain famous man that particular cross and application of made it famous , no that cross never during the Medieval period got refined with upturned hooks for the happy hanger to enjoy .

A Roman crucifix was a T shape, not really what you relate with a cross. Certainly not a St. Andrews Cross which you see from the Flag of Scotland is an X.
quote:
You know in America didn't you have a civil war over Slavery and the practises and treatment

No. No, and no. It was part of it, but thats like saying that Iraq was invaded cause we just didn;t like Hussein. Part, but not nearly the whole of it and in fact that was just a political move on Lincolns part to keep France and England out of the war. Am so not talking anymore on this , it never turns out well.
quote:
But whilst America was undiscovered i dont think there was any B.D.S.M activity by Europeans in that country at all , but the touture practises were imported into America by the European .

The existance of torture devices and methodology does not infer a large society of people engaging in those things for enjoyment. Granted some of the Inquisitors could have really enjoyed what they were doing and in fact more than likely did but not for the reasons you seem to be implying. The existance of sadists predates even the real Marquis De Sade. The existance of sadists using it for sexual gratification of themselves even predates him, however outside of a few small groups of friends, which would mostly be nobility due to the fact that lowborn peasants had more important things to do, it was isolated and far far from common or structured. In fact I'm sure these fine young nobles killed quite a few peasant girls doing it.
quote:


so head's up little boi .

Last I heard, the term boi was actually somewhat reserved for a subgroup of women....though I have been informed that certain elements of the gay male community use it to. Whatever floats ya.
Oh but on the actual topic...Punishment and discipline to me are two different things. Spent to many years in the military not to define discipline a certain way.

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 9/1/2007 2:35:01 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade

Madrabbit , this thread started as my views on " Safe Word's " B.D.S.M is the very world that most needs  ' Safe Word's " . They are intrinsic safety mechanism's so no body dies during play and you end up in goal . I will say what i have said about Gorean Mastery and slaves or submissives having a " Safe Word " but are unable to express or use it in play is total Bull Dust and courting serious Physical and Mental harm to the participants . Never Ever conduct a B.D.S.M session with any person or person's who do not agree to " Safe Word's " and signal's if they are sensory deprived as this is foolish to the extreme and i will not promote nor condone such practises by any person's or lifestyles .


Well, good attempt at sidestepping this flogging I am giving you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade

And harsh on Gorean quite frankly what i feel about there practises are discussed prior


I know. Its really quite cute in a silly way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLDesade

American Justice swears on ' The Bible " so do many other countries and in this book Jesus's death was due to being  Bound , Discipline , Sadistic practice of crucifiction and Masochism he knew his gig was up but did not run  , all run by the state of Rome institushionalized tourture machine , but hey madrabbits there is no such story just more of " What can you expect from an Aussie " and yes your racism boils in your judgement of another race , country or culture period , by bringing it in you dropped to that level .Judging by your the world began in b.d.s.m in 1940 nice and officially makes me wonder when you if you ever have used a Rack where did the idea come from some man in 1940 thought up the idea and " Veola " it was invented , no it is an ancient torture device a fine tuning of four horses drawing you apart .


In case, your reading comprehension is so low, I have already stated that I am not disputing that S/M has been around for a very long time. I am disputing your idiotic claim to a thousand year old organized BDSM society. Once again, you have not provided anything that proves that, besides your own silly personal speculation.

quote:


Ah the St Andrew's Cross i bet that was post 1940 to or did in that fictitious book the Bible mention a certain famous man that particular cross and application of made it famous , no that cross never during the Medieval period got refined with upturned hooks for the happy hanger to enjoy . You know in America didn't you have a civil war over Slavery and the practises and treatment , but hey madrabbit none of those practices of Branding , amputation , whipping , hanging ect ect were ever used prior to 1940 . But whilst America was undiscovered i dont think there was any B.D.S.M activity by Europeans in that country at all , but the touture practises were imported into America by the European .


Sure, buddy. They were used. But the way they were used was to seriously torture and injure people. They were not however used as a kinky way to sexually stimulate someone for fun and pleasure. This didnt happen til after the 1940s.

quote:


Next chat you have to Matthew Carey ask him about "Safe Word's "  and the fact that you have not mentioned in your private discussion his thoughts on safe word's leads me to the assumption that , that meeting never took place in reality and only took place in your mind .Read that last bit again madrabbit .
  

We had a discussion on Leather history, not on "Safe words". Perhaps because I dont know his opinions on toothpicks and their effectiveness in keeping teeth clean that this provides hard evidence that we didnt have a discussion on Leather History?

quote:


And to the yapping dog on the sideline about protocol the very way you act show's you are neither a Master nor in control of your Mastery . And being " Real " here is a link to my advertisment on a  site which is real like myself , come to think of it you were only thirteen years old when i started my Training , so head's up little boi .
http://cracker.com.au/classifieds/sydney/personals/escorts-adult/306982701.aspx?q=mistress
                             Regards
                                       MasterLDeSade


You can click on my picture to see my Internet advertisement. However, this donest really prove how "real" I am in "real life".

And as far as your insult at the bottom...

Well....when you cant argue the facts and logic...

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 9/1/2007 6:25:53 PM   
MasterLDesade


Posts: 67
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		Lmfao .to much a 23 year old reckon's all B.D.S.M started at 1940 ffs you are a scream in your insulated small mind . And my comments were on safe words and there lack of use and Gorean's lack of use of them . Excuse me isn't this the " RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? " collum to funny . No matter what you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink re history , closed insular minds like you need expanshion so i invite you to hit this link,
http://www.yellowpages.com.au/onlineSolution_moreInfo.do?z=100001&headingCode=47341&listingPosition=1&iblName=Mistress+Mercedes+Little+Shop+Of+Secrets&iblId=5222441&pageNumber=1&authToken=114c3aa4aac%7C751872bc9865bcdd976af04463d9ce5e&st=bn
This is my not real employer lmfao , oh and this isn't the " Yellow Pages " site link either of the biggest Telco in Australia  , oh i forgot you dont pay to be in a commercial telephone book listing one year in front , lmfao , fictisious person like me and the  "Australian Bussiness Number " provided by Law is obviously false to and you can quote me the number in your next instalment of how to cut and paste , just to see if you bothered to look , how rude of me , my slave Cheeky whom is on this site sitting beside me is pissing herself at why i even bothered to answer ,  also Mistress expects your call just 06 as a prefix for the International code then Mistress's number and watch your manner's , speak in the fashion you have to me and expect her to rip you a new B.D.S.M ass and i dont feel you have the Intestinal Fortitude to ring , just sit on your p.c and beat your chest but one  could be wrong , oh and by the way i look forward to your cutting and pasteing some more mayby you will progress to a Man From Gor and take me to your planet on your spaceship to this undiscovered world where our brother humans live    ffs give me a break lmfao oop's it will make more cutting and pasting for you .......i need an incontinent pad to read your reply's lol  and boi is mild compared to your poor attempts littered all through your reply's and it seems one apt word to descreibe your world and its veiw's has ruffled your somewhat thin skin , an old Australian saying boi " When your Balls Drop you will be ok "  ok .
                                        Regards
                                                    MasterLDeSade
 

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 9/1/2007 6:34:41 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well, all well and fine--- lets make the safe word red, got it?

I am gonna punch you dead in the goddam face now. Remember your safeword is red, right?


Sh Pow!
Red!
Sh Pow!
Red!
Sh  Pow!
Red!

yeah, safe as in gods pocket.

Ron

better have your slave sitting right there real time clean up her piss, it stinks if allowed to fester, bud.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: No safe word for punishment; what about discipline? - 9/1/2007 7:17:22 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		There is certainly a horse in this thread and since the young man is a rabbit, that leaves only one horse here.  And since they already cut the head off and stuffed in that guy's bed that leaves the only other large portion of that horse...

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 60
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