RE: Define Slave (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

pleasureforHim -> RE: Define Slave (7/15/2005 1:52:22 PM)

quote:

Think of it like the black dom with a white sub, or someone who has a uniform fetish and wears a nazi uniform.


Emerald..there is a WORLD of difference between an interracial couple and someone in a NAZI uniform. Nazi paraphanalia is the ultimate symbol of hatred...and not a "kink" anymore than a KKK outfit would be. i cannot imagine that such bigotry would be accepted by civilized people in or out of BDSM.

pleasureforHim



stormsfate -> RE: Define Slave (7/15/2005 2:01:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim

quote:

Think of it like the black dom with a white sub, or someone who has a uniform fetish and wears a nazi uniform.


Emerald..there is a WORLD of difference between an interracial couple and someone in a NAZI uniform. Nazi paraphanalia is the ultimate symbol of hatred...and not a "kink" anymore than a KKK outfit would be. i cannot imagine that such bigotry would be accepted by civilized people in or out of BDSM.

pleasureforHim



There are people in our local group who would beg to differ with you. I do find it personally distasteful...just as I'm sure you would find some of my kinks distasteful. Not appreciating or even approving of someone else's kink does not invalidate it.


best regards,
fate



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Define Slave (7/15/2005 2:16:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim

quote:

Think of it like the black dom with a white sub, or someone who has a uniform fetish and wears a nazi uniform.


Emerald..there is a WORLD of difference between an interracial couple and someone in a NAZI uniform. Nazi paraphanalia is the ultimate symbol of hatred...and not a "kink" anymore than a KKK outfit would be. i cannot imagine that such bigotry would be accepted by civilized people in or out of BDSM.

pleasureforHim

Then your imagination is as limited as your experience in the scene.

People do wear them, just as I've watched a scene with a man dressed as a vietnam GI man with a vietnamese peasant girl under his boots.

This isn't about what makes me or anyone else comfy, it's about what an individual finds kinky and wants to do consensually to another. If you don't want to watch it, leave the room.



velvetvixen -> RE: Define Slave (7/15/2005 4:34:14 PM)

I am a slave because my Master defines me as so.

Do I think He would kill me intentionlly or indirectly? No, but I don't think He would do that to any human.

I think that as a slave you are only a slave because you are defined as such by your owner. If I were not owned I would be a submissive. In my opinion, a slave can't be a slave unless someone is claiming ownership. Do I have to be branded, barcoded, marked or registered to be acknowledged as a "true" slave?

I also believe that you can't be a Master or Mistress unless you have someone you claim ownership of, otherwise you are a Dominant or Domina.






SteelBondager -> RE: Define Slave (7/15/2005 8:47:29 PM)

quote:

(is my photo REALLY that distracting, SteelBondager..? lol )


Yes it is. :) It's a "rock star" shot - great energy!



SteelBondager -> RE: Define Slave (7/15/2005 8:50:20 PM)

quote:

.i also agree we should stop using the term "slave" and exchange it for some other word.


Coin a term and see if it flies.



stormsfate -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 8:13:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelBondager

quote:

.i also agree we should stop using the term "slave" and exchange it for some other word.


Coin a term and see if it flies.


Ya'll feel free to do that :) I'll just stick with the terms Master/slave and Owner/property.


best regards,
fate



pleasureforHim -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 8:41:42 AM)

quote:

This isn't about what makes me or anyone else comfy, it's about what an individual finds kinky and wants to do consensually to another. If you don't want to watch it, leave the room.


i hope to attend the local scene soon..i have found another Cleveland submissive woman and we are trying to hook up.

If someone attended in a Nazi uniform, ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE. i have orthodox jewish friends with older relatives who have the numbers tattoed on their arms. Survivors of places like Buchenwald. i would be just as confrontational to someone in a KKK outfit. i do not think HATE is an acceptable kink..and i would be dragging that person into the middle of the Room for a throw down. i imagine security would throw both of us out..and so we could continue our "discussion" in the parking lot.

For information on Nazi concentration camps, a good site is:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005378

The Anti-Defamation League website is found at:

www.adl.org

(caveat: the website is currently down.)

pleasureforHim



stormsfate -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 9:38:26 AM)

quote:

If someone attended in a Nazi uniform, ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE. i have orthodox jewish friends with older relatives who have the numbers tattoed on their arms. Survivors of places like Buchenwald. i would be just as confrontational to someone in a KKK outfit. i do not think HATE is an acceptable kink..and i would be dragging that person into the middle of the Room for a throw down. i imagine security would throw both of us out..and so we could continue our "discussion" in the parking lot.


You seem to have planned this out in your mind, but I don't think you understand how it would most likely work. *You* would be the one escorted from the premises and likely not permitted to attend any further functions. You are thinking they would throw you both out. That is unlikely.

Geez, for someone who has yet to attend their first function, you seem to have your "one true way" already in place. Usually it takes people a little longer to start trying to change other people.

Just for the record...my owner is Jewish.


f



RoseSin -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 9:50:27 AM)

Honestly, I don't think "real" slavery exist in BDSM. A slave serves and expects nothing in return, a BDSM "slave" expects domination , I don't think many submissive people would be submissive, unless they knew they were getting something out of it.That still does not make them anyless a "slave", or "sub" or "bottom", or whatever other little box you wanna put people in.



darkinshadows -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 10:00:29 AM)

fille - it really is a case of just accepting anothers kink and leaving it at that. People do dress in uniforms at some functions. It's all part the norm. I dont mind admiting uniforms are hot - Its not who's in them or whats behind them for me - its the uniform - the texture, feel and the 'look'... If you take offense at a certain clothing, you have to look past it or it would be you being 'removed' not the guy/girl in uniform.

You don't have to have it as your kink, but accepting it exists is a huge release. If I go to 'church' I wear everything I usually do - I am a goth and I don't hide the fact - doesn't 'make' me a devil worshiper - I just love the clothing. So, people accept and if they don't - then I ignore them. Its not going to make me be any different and they are only hurting themselves in the long run.

Peace and Love



ElektraUkM -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 10:17:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RoseSin

A slave serves and expects nothing in return, a BDSM "slave" expects domination , I don't think many submissive people would be submissive, unless they knew they were getting something out of it.


But isn't the thing they're getting out of it the opportunity to serve someone (which is their greatest desire?). 'Expecting domination' (or a particular style or level of domination) is something that you can see criticised in plenty of threads on CM where a submissive is complaining that she's not being dominated to her satisfaction.

~ Elektra



pleasureforHim -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 10:18:24 AM)

dark angel; a goth is a style; and some people are into it, just as i was once dressed as a hippie. LOL; i have a vivid memory of meeting my future in-laws dressed in hip-hugger jeans; a che guerva t-shirt and a bandana holding my hair back. it probably sent them to the moon. but it was not "hate"; nor is goth.

There is, on the other hand, ways of telegraphing hate through tattoos and clothing -- and the Nazi uniform would be the height of doing so. If what you are saying is, the dungeon would admit someone dressed in that fashion, and the put me out for creating a disturbance once i saw him and went bugshit, well, i guess that's one place i won't be going to. i do not accept hate, nor do i accept passivity in the face of it. If a man's "kink" is to pretend he was part of the Third Reich i think he needs to be removed from the dungeon. If that's not how it works, i foresee some confrontations in my future.

pleasureforHim



Padriag -> RE: Define Slave (7/16/2005 11:29:00 PM)

Interesting little debate this stirred up. The original question was, define a slave.

That is actually fairly simple to answer. A slave is whatever I say. Or at least thats the case in the context of my own relationships with submissive women who desire to be my slave. It is most certainly the definition they need to acquaint themselves with if they want to be successful in that desired goal. But that definition only applies in that context and its the only context in which I really have any right to define it. What a slave is for someone else is something they have to define for themselves.

That said I will state my views on a few points. Its my considered view that historical forms of a slavery are irrelevant to slavery in the context of BDSM / TPE relationships. Its a matter of comparing apples and oranges. No group has exclusive ownership of the word "slave". Just because there are people today who live in non-consenual slavery does not mean they are given exclusive use of the term, nor am I in any way obligated to not use it for my own purposes out of some deference to the suffering of others. Apples and oranges, simple as that.

When I use the term slave in the context of my own relationships I am creating my own definition. I am not relying on Websters Collegiate, nor on historical precedent. In fact I am not even relying on what some BDSM House, Club, or organization claims. I do not care what Castle Realm has to say about it. None of these things is relevant. After more than a decade in this lifestyle I'm quite capable of making my own choices regarding how I define things in my own life, and since my own life is my chief responsibility, that's about as far as I worry with it. I use what I find useful, relevant, and appealing to me. What someone else does is their business. I do not care if anyone approves of my definition or not... its my business, mind your own. I'm dominant, I don't need anyone elses permission for what I do, nor their approval of it. I don't expect any other dominant to ask for my permission or approval either, if they did I wouldn't respect them as a dominant.

What exactly is my definition of a slave? If you're seriously interested in the position, email me and apply. Otherwise, does it matter? If you need your own definition of what a slave is, find it for yourself, whatever works for you. Don't get caught up in historical baggage, dictionary definitions, or what some elitist group or some random website has to say about it. Find what works for you and go with that. If you are a submissive seeking a lifestyle of slavery, get a general idea of what you really desire and find someone that shares that general idea.

But as for all the indignant concern over whether someone is a real true slave, or outrage over "real slavery", or what the one true meaning is... its irrelevant and useless, and that's all it is.

One thing I promise, whether I agree with your definition or not, I'll respect that you have the right to your own definition whatever that is. At least as long as you don't try beating me over the head with it. [;)]



imtempting -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 12:15:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoseSin

Honestly, I don't think "real" slavery exist in BDSM. A slave serves and expects nothing in return, a BDSM "slave" expects domination , I don't think many submissive people would be submissive, unless they knew they were getting something out of it.That still does not make them anyless a "slave", or "sub" or "bottom", or whatever other little box you wanna put people in.


I agree with you.

Off Topic:

Towards: pleasureforHim

What did the Nazis do to you?
Why do you hate them? Going by your theory we should hate all Muslims because off some fanatics letting off bombs.

The Nazi's were basically soliders taking orders. You should dis-like the SS. These were the people giving orders. Ill admit the SS uniform gives of a sign of authority.

Before people start well they would of by now started to plan your re-tort or your hatred thowards my comments I should let you know im half German. (Now I know what your thinking at the moment) The thing is due to my familys power and influence in the German society at the time and the fact they were against Hitler and moved most of their money and things out of Germany they were sent to death camps.

I just hope this thread won't turn into a Nazi bashing thread.




Gemeni -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 12:19:44 AM)

Interesting Padraigh

I'll reiterate-this is why I always place the onus of self knowledge on the bottom, by asking them to define what "to serve" means to them.

It tells me very quickly if they have the same thing in mind that I do-or are simply a waste of time.



slavedesires -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 7:28:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

The salient feature the D/s relationships was my awareness of boundaries. But I was always conscious of those boundaries.

In the sole M/s relationship I was never aware of boundaries - I was aware of her trust, of her in essence saying, "I'm in your hands - do with me as you will." Instead of boundaries I was more aware of her shape and our dynamic - of what I should or shouldn't do.



I have been reading this thread off and on....

"should or shoudn't do".... are not these still boundaries? based on your dynamic and your knowledge of "her shape?"

Yes different than a submissive who has 4 fence posts and a fence line...but none the less, a slave has boundaries only becasue God made her with a mind...and i dont think ANY BDSM "Master" would morally or legally CHOOSE to do something to their taht was NOT within the boundaries of their own Integrity as a man and human being.

Does a Master REALLY want a mindless slave?

I say this only thinking about the gor slavee who with breast cancer finds herself put out by her master, as stated in these forums. (but there are many sides to one story).

~~shy



slavedesires -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 7:56:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flirt
i am a slave. What makes me a slave? When i become a slave to a particular Master i am:

His property
It goes beyond submission, and becomes "surrender"
my limits are His, i have none of my own
slavery comes from a deeper learning of trust developed over time
i believe that i am His to do with as He pleases
Negotiations were made, and the potential for new ones voided.
Serving Him is the reward, when my wants are met it is an extra reward.

What really angers me is when i hear people say things like, a slave has no mind of her own, or i would never want a slave because i don't want a robot or doormat, even, i would not want a slave because i would want to be able to have a conversation with her. The strength and intelligence of a 'true' slave is beautiful and to be admired.

The best way to describe it, at least for me is that it is submission in a new relationship and after a while of learning growing and trust it gives way to complete surrender. Being a slave means i can't turn it off and on or have a date for it over the weekend. When owned and serving i am at my best and feel the most natural.

sincerely,
flirt


I mostly agree with flirt.
A girl cannot be slave to just any dom.
In our realtionship...i would not call anything negogiations..... its His way, i have a right to make an opinion or have a voice, but if not respectfully done, then i am not heard.
Many times my soul touches his and His way is modiifed, but NEVER the Control or the surrender to Him.
Yes serving is my reward. That to me is the pivotal point in being a sub or slave. Within our relationship rewards are given back to me as i demonstrate obedience.
i have struggled with the concept of needs and wants. It all boils down to do i want and need what He does, if not, then i am not really surrendered.
But as a slave who has brains, opinions, good employment and experience in life, i do have needs and wants nd desires, and if i approach him respectfully, demonstratng obedeince and surrender to His way, i usaully get my needs and wants, if not from him than i am allowed toabtain them as i always have before i entered the relationship, or i rethink/re-evaluate my needs and wants.

And yes...what gets me is woman who wants a submissive mode/mindset and finds it hard to find it.
Like turning a faucet on and off.
That is beyond my comprehension. i will never be able to turn off who i am, submissive, but the surrender to only one is so easy and natural, how would i even turn that off and try to find it again.
It is not who i am.
This girls facet will never be turned off to her submissive nature, nor will her surrender to only one....

just my thoughts.
~~shy



Ladybelladonna -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 8:00:56 AM)

This i wrote two years ago while serving in 24/7 micro managed owned slave..... collard by Master Jz ... whom i honour for His training.... i have now earned that right to be titled free slave, at this present time i the one who is in control of my own life.. (another topic)
Through my journey of life i have follow the heart of a slave and it is my belief as Abraham Lincoln said "That in the end, it's not the years in our life that counts, it's the life in those years.
Service is my chosen lifestyle... where my rewards are given through gratitude of that service.

Lady_BellaDonna
trix

_________________________

Through the act submission one is able to explore ones own self-dominance…
The ultimate is to submit ones self to another in trust of their well fare and well being.
By looking at this as ones WELL FAIR being their body … and their mind as their WELL BEING.It then makes it easy to connect BDSM as “Bondage, Domination, Submission, Masochism” with “Body, destiny, Soul, Mind”
It’s about love, life, gift and responsibility … Safe, Sane, Consensual and lets not forget Patient.
Domination is an art form and a Master/Mistress being the artist... the submissive being the canvas who merely becomes a reflection of their Dominants work.
As always an artisan will look to correct and change through their vision of perfection and will create and re-create His or Her Master piece.
As the submissive becomes more looked upon as an investment of the creator… the more treasured they become and feel.
Through the catharsis of creation, enlightenment of self-pride becomes apparent and the want to maintain the worth of such a valued gift becomes a way of life. The submissive gains control of their own self in order to secure commitment of responsibility.
A submissive is the mirror of dominance, an artist without a canvas can only dream of their brilliance…
trix
lady_belladonna











slavedesires -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 8:34:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim

i cannot resist throwing off the bell curve and giving my opinion again. LOL.

1st...dark angel is absolutely right. The use "slave" as a sexual enhancer when so many people here in the US and around the world experience unspeakable suffering due to their true slavery is self-indulgent. How anyone can claim they are ignorant of the suffering dark angel describes, or claim that the use of the word "slave" in their sexual life does not further marginalize this suffering is beyond me. If we called women in D/s "refugees" it might be a bit more apparent what i mean.
[/q



Like darkangel...i persoanlly know the difference between a slave in the truest sense of the word.
I also know the difference bewteen a bound slave and free slave in the truest sense of the word.
I have read of this in history and i have seen it first hand in Africa, not only as a child, when i didnt understand it and as an adult, knowing fully what i saw before my eyes.
Unless the local and federal government allows such slavery, no one can do anything about it, IMHO.
Being a slave in the BDSM/WIITWD sense may NOT have anything to do with sexual enhancment in a relationship, it is the mind frame/set of the woman or man. To equate it to slavery outside of BDSM is to do an injsutice to those who use it to enhance a relationship.
To find the word "slave" repugnant is like unto finding the word "bitch" repugnant in a wrong context. Extreme example..but none the less workable.


quote:


2nd...i cannot get over the black man who claims to be a Dom or Master and says He seeks a slave. The hair on the back of my neck stands up. It's like watching Him ask to join the local KKK. Yikes!
[/q


gf, please dont tread here. A black man, can do anything he wishes. He is a free man, a man of sexual desires who desires a white woman. If he can find a submisive woman who will surrender herself to him in the sort of M/S relationship he desires.... do not liken it to the KKK...it is consentual and none of your business.
Just as you say words against young men looking for older woman, that is for you. Some older women only adore younger men...and i am not talking 3 years but a generation of years.
Please do not equate smeones free choice with the likes of the KKK or someother, what i call "immoral opportunists."

quote:


3rd...the relationship between any two people in BDSM is, per force, defined by them. Whatever they choose to call one another, whatever rules of living they establish, however they establish trust and (one hopes) love..is individual. They could try to explain their relationship to the readers of this thread...but what use would it be? None of us can mimic what they do..what they feel...what they have built. The unique nature of their relationship means they might possibly advise us as to what works for them, but that's all. It may not -- almost certainly does not -- work for anyone else.
[/q


You have hit the nail on the head...which really negates your point number 2. :)

You are such the humanitairain compaigner...but it will never happen.
Pick the battles and fight fairly and respectfully that you can do something about.
Every stray cat does not want food from your hand, warm milk from your bowl, they might prefer the sewer water.
Every stray dog is not a stray, even with no collar, fleas, or rabies they might bite the hand that wants to lead them to "safety."

~~shy
quote:


4th..i also agree we should stop using the term "slave" and exchange it for some other word. Whatever level of TPE the couple has going on..he/she can end it on a dime by calling a halt to it and leaving. i can remember, when i used to chat in TheLobby, being asked over and over for devices to make the slavery "legal" through guardianship or elsewise. It cannot be done. Even in states which permit adult adopton, she will never lose her civil rights. I tried to explain this, and inevitably some dim bulb would argue with me and send everyone to his web site, full of misinformation on devices to legally capture a woman. *sigh*. Since she can never BE a slave; and since slavery is a CURRENT problem of a revolting nature. why not call her what she REALLY is?

pleasureforHim




Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875