RE: Define Slave (Full Version)

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slavedesires -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 8:50:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim



This brings me sort of to my next point. i DO respect everyone's "kink" unless you tell me you get off on involving children in your sexual life. Doesn't mean i understand it, or could choose it. i cannot understand why women who wish to pledge to a man a greater degree of submission cannot find a word that does not carry connotations of such suffering, degradation, and horror. No other word could possibly convey your depth of feeling? You must resort to "slave"?

i have been told stories -- and since this is the internet, who the hell knows -- of women being sold by one Master to another. A woman in that position needs help. i have also been told -- by a Master who "courted" me -- that i would own nothing; all my property would become his, and whatever i acquired or earned would be his as well, So that if the relationship ever failed, i'd have nothing whatsoever. Imagine how enticing that was to a woman my age. (This guy happened to live in California, home of palimony and equal division of assets.) Was i supposed to reliquish all my security to be with him? And why exactly would he need me to do that? Naturally, that never got off the ground.

i suppose if it gives you the shivers to be called a "slave" by all means, have at it. It's just role playing. i can see myself in a harem girl outfit too. But to treat "slavery" as if it were a bona fide "section" or "type" of woman available to the Doms and Masters on CM is like telling a fairy tale. Slavery is illegal under the 13th Amendment; per force; no Dom or Master can own a slave in the US legally. What You are really talking about is a long term role playing engagement with rules i suspect are different from couple to couple, and year to year.

Much as i think i'd love role playing; to be stuck in the same role all the time would bore the shit out of me..so i guess i need more variety. i guess i also need a Dom or Master who is secure enough in Himself not to need a fantasy of being a slaveowner to feel He is the dominant in O/our relationship.

i before i get flamed; my apologies to the 3/4ths of everyone i have annoyed. i could not hold it in any more.

pleasureforHim



I am not sure ALL woman who call themselves "slaves" to one man, who might think of themselves as property to that one man...would find any legal written docucment to that effect. Maybe a BDSM "contract."

That being said...before you give opinions on "property" as a horribly repugnant concept.... ask a dozen slaves what they mean by "property". I bet you will get a dozen answers in return.
Ask me on the other side gf and i probably might blow your mind.

~~shy




domtimothy46176 -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 10:43:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim

quote:

The best way to describe it, at least for me is that it is submission in a new relationship and after a while of learning growing and trust it gives way to complete surrender. Being a slave means i can't turn it off and on or have a date for it over the weekend. When owned and serving i am at my best and feel the most natural.

sincerely,

flirt


i feel that way as well; so i suppose the relationship i hope for would be descibed by others as "slavery"; but i'd never tolerate such a moniker; to me it is repugnant and belittles the horrors that were suffered and are suffered by actual slaves. Actually i hope for a Man who needs no labels, no titles, and simply allows O/our relationship to develop to its fullest without expectations taken from a book on s/m; slavery; or other topics.

pleasureforHim


toy and I avoided the language issues due to a similar lack of comfort on her part about the associated negative connotations of master and slave and ownership and property. For purposes of communication, we adopted servant as her "label". Subsequentially, however, and not neccessarily consensually, she discovered that she is, in fact, "mine" and had to come to terms with what that meant to her and how it impacted her position on the ownership of human beings.
IMO, the issues supercede historical realities and politics. When a girl finds herself "belonging" to someone, despite her intentions to maintain independance, it can be difficult for her to adjust. toy was so startled that her first instinct was to flee and had she realized what was occuring early enough, perhaps she would have. Even now she occasionally exhibits a bit of panic from time to time.
I don't have a clue how wide-spread the phenomenom is, but I do think it is a dimension that needs to be included in a discussion of BDSM slavery. Not every M/s relationship is based on a concious choice to assume the roles. toy's slavery comes from within her, perhaps in reaction to her trust in me, perhaps from other factors of which I am unaware. Although she is a fully functioning adult in every practical sense, perhaps there are those who would argue a case for psychosis being the root.
The distinction I would make, however, is that her slavery exists and it is not voluntary or consensual and neither is it forced upon her by outside forces. She is not unhappy with her lot, merely uncomfortable with the idea that she has found her way without choosing to, something she never envisioned happening. She is not a victim or a prisoner but neither is she "free" to leave, even when she has the means to do so at her disposal.
I've seen some interesting thoughts on "internal enslavement" over the last few years and it's not my intention to hijack this thread and start a new discussion on it here. I do think, however, before we get completely bogged down in historical analogies, that we at least include those who are not free but are also not held against their will by external forces.
Timothy



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 11:00:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RoseSin

A slave serves and expects nothing in return, a BDSM "slave" expects domination


While that may be your opinion, based on your observations and experiences, it is not true categorically. Acts of domination are not always expected or needed. There are slaves of both genders who require nothing more than the opportunity to serve.
Timothy



pleasureforHim -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 1:34:00 PM)

quote:

Being a slave in the BDSM/WIITWD sense may NOT have anything to do with sexual enhancment in a relationship, it is the mind frame/set of the woman or man. To equate it to slavery outside of BDSM is to do an injsutice to those who use it to enhance a relationship.
To find the word "slave" repugnant is like unto finding the word "bitch" repugnant in a wrong context. Extreme example..but none the less workable.


i have received an eloquent and thoughtful email from a lovely woman who kindly explained i have come across in this thread (and elsewhere) as disrespectful, opinionated and mean.

So i need to begin by apologising to anyone who felt disrespcted...and i admit there are people who have every right to feel that way due to what i wrote.

i find myself very confused. i have a bone-deep hatred for bigots, among other sinners. i also have a life-long pattern of confronting hate whenever, wherever, without regard to my personal safety, etc. i assure the readers of this post, facing off against bigots was a necessity of life as i grew up. It was the same principle as handling bullies; if you run they just beat on you longer.

Finding D/s in jan '04, my Mentor taught me the practices of such things as ponygirl; and i was taken aback. He also explained about s/m to a large degree and about pain sluts...and i had such difficulty accepting this. For so many years i successfully represented battered women...and the distinction between a battered woman and a pain slut took time for me to understand.

Slavedesires is right....i have no place commenting on the black Master seeking a slave. It is not my background; it is His. Whatever it means to Him is His business. i should not have commented and i apologise.

That leaves the usage of the word "slave". First i realise no one is likely to be influenced by my post to change the dynamic in their relationship. i also recognise some women need/want the moniker to best communicate the depth of their feelings of submission in general, or to a Master in particular. i realise this is not my business....hard as that is to accept.

Part of my "entry" into BDSM is a change in "headspace"; i have been a protector; a rescuer; a champion. But now i need/want to be a submissive woman...and need to lay down my sword.

It is a time of great change...and much confusion..and i beg forgiveness from everyone i annoyed or hurt.

pleasureforHim



pleasureforHim -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 2:48:29 PM)

"Towards: pleasureforHim

What did the Nazis do to you?
Why do you hate them? Going by your theory we should hate all Muslims because off some fanatics letting off bombs.

The Nazi's were basically soliders taking orders. You should dis-like the SS. These were the people giving orders. Ill admit the SS uniform gives of a sign of authority.

Before people start well they would of by now started to plan your re-tort or your hatred thowards my comments I should let you know im half German. (Now I know what your thinking at the moment) The thing is due to my familys power and influence in the German society at the time and the fact they were against Hitler and moved most of their money and things out of Germany they were sent to death camps.

I just hope this thread won't turn into a Nazi bashing thread.

< Message edited by imtempting -- 7/17/2005 12:17:25 AM > "

imtemptimg..your message isn't entirely clear, but it seems you have family who were sent to the death camps, and i am humbled speaking on this subject with someone such as yourself. There has, over the years, been questions raised about the cupablity of the German foot soldier; the inhabitants of villages near the death camps; the Vatican, which struck a deal to avoid looting in exchange for turning its back on Italtian Jews; etc. The Nuremberg Trials were intended to ascertain culpability and impose sentences. The matter should be closed, but people who sit in comfort and freeedom still stir the pot.

Meantime, no one speaks of the Japanese concentration camps created by the US during WW II.

It is now 2005. Symbols of the Third Reich have become, to me, to others, symbols of anti-seminitism and of hate. How do i simply write it off as someone's "kink"?

Btw, has anyone read Stephen King's book "Apt Pupil"?

And for a general BDSM horror story, try Stephen King's book "Gerald's Game".

i am not closed-minded on the subject of this post; i would appreciate guidance from others. How do i look upon a Nazi uniform and NOT see the hate it has always represented?

pleasureforHim



darkinshadows -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 3:04:52 PM)

But to some people fille - goth isnt just a style - theres a whole concept 'behind it' that people perceive and take offence to. I know - I've been there. I have been cornered and accused of being a devil worshiper or someone who lives to hate. I have been told I am unworthy and insignificant just because I wish to wear my hair black, my eyes dark - I have people cross the road just because of how I look - feel threatened because of the rings I wear -

Why should someone be attacked just because of a look? The swastika is an ancient symbol, older than the anhk - but if someone was wearing the armband or had a tattooe or a t-shirt, it is assumed to be nazi in nature.
If someones wearing the uniform - does that make them a nazi? I have jewish ancestory, so of course I can comprehend the terrible happening and in no way to I feel passive towards nazis - but the uniform is just that - a uniform.

Peace and Love



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 3:42:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim
It is now 2005. Symbols of the Third Reich have become, to me, to others, symbols of anti-seminitism and of hate. How do i simply write it off as someone's "kink"?

By reminding yourself that these are adults doing things that they want to do and not harming anyone, and reminding yourself that you can and should leave if you feel it is not what you want to be around.
quote:



Btw, has anyone read Stephen King's book "Apt Pupil"?

Yes, Different Seasons was the first King book I read at age 11. The part where the boy rapes the girl in his first wet dream became a regular sex fantasy of mine and to this day is something I get turned on by the imagery.
quote:



And for a general BDSM horror story, try Stephen King's book "Gerald's Game".

Yes indeed, though I thought it was another step on the line of King being unable to turn off the running commentary in his head and just write a story.
quote:


i am not closed-minded on the subject of this post; i would appreciate guidance from others. How do i look upon a Nazi uniform and NOT see the hate it has always represented?

pleasureforHim
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You don't have to not see the hate, you simply don't have to let it control you and put others down for their own choices.

Granted, unless the people were fairly well known in their area and had the right background, it would be considered bad taste and probably WOULD not be terribly welcomed in a club. BUT some people are well known, some people DO do these things in the correct contexts and are respected for it.



Tormentius -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 5:54:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim

dark angel; a goth is a style; and some people are into it, just as i was once dressed as a hippie. LOL; i have a vivid memory of meeting my future in-laws dressed in hip-hugger jeans; a che guerva t-shirt and a bandana holding my hair back. it probably sent them to the moon. but it was not "hate"; nor is goth.

There is, on the other hand, ways of telegraphing hate through tattoos and clothing -- and the Nazi uniform would be the height of doing so. If what you are saying is, the dungeon would admit someone dressed in that fashion, and the put me out for creating a disturbance once i saw him and went bugshit, well, i guess that's one place i won't be going to. i do not accept hate, nor do i accept passivity in the face of it. If a man's "kink" is to pretend he was part of the Third Reich i think he needs to be removed from the dungeon. If that's not how it works, i foresee some confrontations in my future.

pleasureforHim


Pretty self-righteous for someone who has yet to even step into a real-world event. You not only seem to think that you should actually have a say in what two people call each other you also seem to think people should care about your opinions on attire. It sounds like you're in for quite the rude awakening.

If you start a "confrontation" over what someone else is wearing then you will most likely find yourself kicked out of that event and ostracized by your local community pretty quickly. People attending any event are under no obligation to pander to your likes or dislikes. If you don't like something you see then simply leave.



BittersweetLila -> RE: Define Slave (7/17/2005 9:43:37 PM)

Okay to dress up as a KKK or Naxi? If so, count me out. I agree with PleasureforHim. While I think everyone should be as kinky as they want to be, but I don't want to be a part of any community that sees nothing wrong with a person wearing a Naxi or KKK uniform. For pete's sake, if you want to wear a uniform there are plenty to choose from other than Naxi uniforms!

There's other things I object to too, like snuff films for example. For me there are limits, and those limits involve real innocent people being killed. For me I could not trust a community enough to be involved as a submissive/slave, if I thought the community didn't also have some limits such as I have.



imtempting -> RE: Define Slave (7/18/2005 12:38:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pleasureforHim


imtemptimg..your message isn't entirely clear.

Sorry just trying to point out im of German descent and had family killed due to the Nazi's yet I dont hold resentment.

Meantime, no one speaks of the Japanese concentration camps created by the US during WW II.

There is alot that is not mentioned and alot of semi truths which at the moment in time I do not wish to bring up (I dont think this is the post to say it in either).


pleasureforHim
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Padriag -> RE: Define Slave (7/18/2005 2:43:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BittersweetLila

Okay to dress up as a KKK or Naxi? If so, count me out. I agree with PleasureforHim. While I think everyone should be as kinky as they want to be, but I don't want to be a part of any community that sees nothing wrong with a person wearing a Naxi or KKK uniform. For pete's sake, if you want to wear a uniform there are plenty to choose from other than Naxi uniforms!

There's other things I object to too, like snuff films for example. For me there are limits, and those limits involve real innocent people being killed. For me I could not trust a community enough to be involved as a submissive/slave, if I thought the community didn't also have some limits such as I have.


Let me be clear about something. I'm not advocating dressing up as Nazi's or the KKK as part of the lifestyle. For me personally its not something I would ever be comfortable with. Nor would I be comfortable taking on the roll of a 18th century plantation owner and role playing with a black slave; something I have had the opportunity to do in the past at the request of a black submissive woman (I declined). But my feelings about these things are my personal preferences, nothing more. I don't have the right to make those choices for others. What I can do is try to be a voice of reason, recognize that people will make different choices and have the right to do so, and try to offer a workable compromise that keeps the peace. To wit, I'll share something that occured on a couple of art web sites a few years ago.

I used to be involved with several art web sites which displayed a wide range of images, plenty of which were erotic and many had BDSM themes. There was a minority group that focused on erotic images involving Nazis or pseudo-Nazis... some of it was so campy it would have almost fit in a comic book were it not for the adult themes. It also generated a lot of controversy and offended a lot of people. Many artists, myself included, didn't want our art displayed in the same galleries with images of Nazis. Two sites went with different solutions. One simply banned that style of art completely. It was the site owner's choice, and being that was his perrogative. The other site created a separate gallery for that style of images, and only banned individuals who tried to circumvent their solution.

To relate this to the lifestyle. At public events, it would be up to the event organizers whether to allow such or to reserve a special area for it... as would be the case with any other fetish. Many event organizers do exactly that for a variety of activities just to keep things under control and give attendee's some choice about what they expose themselves too. Don't want to see cutting, stay out of the area reserved for it.

On the other hand what individuals do in the privacy of their homes is entirely their business. In that case I really don't care what you do. Dress up as the Easter Bunny for all I care, its your home, its your perrogative. I'm not in the business of being a sex cop checking on what people do in their bedrooms to make sure they are abiding by some nebulous "community standard." What you do in your bedroom is your business and none of mine.

People do a lot of things I don't personally approve of or would be comfortable participating in. I don't share for example, but many do. But what I realize is I only have the right to say what I will or won't do, what I will or won't participate in. I can voice an opinion about things. I can make a protest if something is done in public I feel isn't appropriate. But beyond that I don't have any right to tell others what they can and can't do in this lifestyle, its their choice. I make my own choices, and all I am advocating is that we all respect each others right to make those choices.

Just advocating some common sense and courtesy.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Define Slave (7/18/2005 5:25:15 AM)

Something that just got tickled into my memory is a recent TesFest in NYC had a specific "EdgePlay" track in which they discussed the darker/more intense types of play that people do and in fact it sparked quite a bit of controversy as some people felt it still went "over the line" in terms of topics and taste. One among them was indeed Nazi play.



Padriag -> RE: Define Slave (7/18/2005 9:47:04 PM)

I don't doubt that it was at all Emerald. There are many things that can be very controversial, even within the lifestyle. Fact is there are and always will be those who are strange even by lifestyle standards. I try not to be judgemental, even when confronted with things I really just can't fathom and which repulse me personally. Scat and toilet service are two things I will never understand, and don't want to. But what I have decided for myself is that so long as they are consenting adults... not my business. Just don't ask me to participate [;)]

I used to try to argue for a concrete definition of what a slave is... the difference between slaves and submissives. I worked out charts, definitions, ideologies, and studied what others had written. They ironic part was that in the end, all those definitions, all that thought and effort ultimately applied only to me. I had defined what a slave is within the context of myself... that is, what I wanted a slave to be, what I wanted in a slave. Great for me, not of much use to anyone else. Eventually I realized that, that we all have to come to our own defintions. Whatever historical definitions or those definitions used by others really are irrelevant to each of us personally.

If another dominant asks me what a slave is, I would ask them, what do you want a slave to be?

If a submissive asked me how to be a slave, my reply would be, what do you think a slave should be?

Figure out that, then find it. That's about the only general purpose, "one size fits all" answer I know to give.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm starting to feel like Yoda or something... [:D]



SftTigress -> RE: Define Slave (7/23/2005 8:49:26 PM)

What Makes Me A Slave! Of course the opinions differ just as the people do and the perception of what you read here may even differ from my intentions of the words. However, I am going to attempt to explain the way I see it. I was trained under high protocol much like the Old Guard way. No matter what we choose to utilize in our lifestyle, the vanilla world will have its toll. There are compromises that must be made and there are personal situations that may or may not allow us to live fully the way we intend. With that being said, here is what being a slave means to me. I am a slave. I am a lady, a human being with emotions, thoughts, and desires, but I am still a slave. As a slave I give total reverence to the one I serve. I bow to him, worship him, devote my life to him. Everything I do is for his glory and not mine. My actions are obedient, mannerly, and respectful. My mouth speaks only when allowed and always with respect. My body is the property of the one I serve and will be maintained exactly as he wishes and used whenever and however he wishes. I will make it a priority to lesson the work, responsibilities, and chaos for the one I serve. My pride is knowing that I have made the Master shine. I will always be in his shadows, available, willing, caring, adoring, and serving. I not only become his property, I become a part of him that gives him the strength, and the ability to grow stronger and wiser. My heart, mind, body, and soul belong to him and the love and willingness of this is what makes me a slave.



Phoenixandnika -> RE: Define Slave (7/23/2005 10:33:41 PM)

There are a series of Sci-fi books out writen by John Norman that I read long ago. Posts in this thread reminded me of that series. In those books Norman depicted slaves as mere property, to be beaten used, killed,raped, ect as the Owners deemed fit.

However, I urge all to remember this is the real world not a set of novels.

Does slavery exist? Yes, it has always excisted in some for or another in every society. Is slavery illegal in modern countries. Yes it is. However, there are those within the BDSM lifestyle labeled as slaves by themselves or others. That being said. I am a slave. I have choosen to conscent to nonconscent. I do not make demands. I do not set limits. I have not entered into this lightly. Do I make him aware of discomforts with situations yes, but in the end I have to trust his judgement as my Master. Are these easy things to do? Not by any means.

Slavery like any relationship is about trust. Could I submit totally to a Dominate I did NOT trust. NO!Reality is I wouldnt even scene with a Dominate I did not know. Why? In my opinion its not safe nor sain. How can a stranger now me, know my body, know my mental state? They can not!


There is risk in every relationship. There is that chance that a boyfriend or spouse or perfect stranger may kill or harm you beyond beleif. Being a slave in my mind does NOT increase that risk. In fact I would say it lessons it. Why? Simple, my job as a slave is to serve, to please, to obey. His job, is to protect me and provide my needs physical and mental.

Being slave does not mean I take abuse, mental or physical. But I would venture to say that a dominate , an owner of a slave is not more likely to abuse than a vanilla boyfriend or spouse. The reality is predators and abusers exist in EVERY fascite of society the BDSM scene is not special. We have our share of "monsters" however, I do not beleive they are the norm.

To some those within the lifestyle who call themselves slaves are needy . Let me put this out there. Being slave is hard. Its hard to make someone else my focus. To put someone elses wants, needs, desires before my own. To give 100%. Its hard to meet the demands of a Dominate. If slaves are so needy how could a slave so willingly meet or try to meet the needs of another on a daily basis?

*laughs*

Slaves are people, showing their submission, showing their love.

No matter how you choose to submit I urge you to be safe and sain. And I urge dominate to remember your job is to protect your property.

nika, Phoenix's deviant slave




SftTigress -> RE: Define Slave (7/24/2005 6:32:51 AM)

What Makes Me A Slave! Of course the opinions differ just as the people do and the perception of what you read here may even differ from my intentions of the words. However, I am going to attempt to explain the way I see it. I was trained under high protocol much like the Old Guard way. No matter what we choose to utilize in our lifestyle, the vanilla world will have its toll. There are compromises that must be made and there are personal situations that may or may not allow us to live fully the way we intend. With that being said, here is what being a slave means to me. I am a slave. I am a lady, a human being with emotions, thoughts, and desires, but I am still a slave. As a slave I give total reverence to the one I serve. I bow to him, worship him, devote my life to him. Everything I do is for his glory and not mine. My actions are obedient, mannerly, and respectful. My mouth speaks only when allowed and always with respect. My body is the property of the one I serve and will be maintained exactly as he wishes and used whenever and however he wishes. I will make it a priority to lesson the work, responsibilities, and chaos for the one I serve. My pride is knowing that I have made the Master shine. I will always be in his shadows, available, willing, caring, adoring, and serving. I not only become his property, I become a part of him that gives him the strength, and the ability to grow stronger and wiser. My heart, mind, body, and soul belong to him and the love and willingness of this is what makes me a slave.



RoseSin -> RE: Define Slave (7/25/2005 8:37:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176


quote:

ORIGINAL: RoseSin

A slave serves and expects nothing in return, a BDSM "slave" expects domination


While that may be your opinion, based on your observations and experiences, it is not true categorically. Acts of domination are not always expected or needed. There are slaves of both genders who require nothing more than the opportunity to serve.
Timothy




Well honest, half the fun of being a submissive is"serving", I think that is one of the back bones of being a submissive. So men that pay women to do things to them are not expecting domination, they are just serving? Women and men, who take orders from their Dom/me(s) are just doing it just because? No they are getting off on "serving". A real slave in the context of history would do whatever their Master would want, even if it were in their will or not. I think you must realize that although people are submissive, they still have needs that they need to have meet, so even though it may look like their acts of submission are pure slavery, they are serving to recieve the dominance and "serving" that they need. D/s is a two way street, otherwise it would never work out for either party.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Define Slave (7/25/2005 8:52:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RoseSin

quote:

ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176


quote:

ORIGINAL: RoseSin

A slave serves and expects nothing in return, a BDSM "slave" expects domination


While that may be your opinion, based on your observations and experiences, it is not true categorically. Acts of domination are not always expected or needed. There are slaves of both genders who require nothing more than the opportunity to serve.
Timothy




Well honest, half the fun of being a submissive is"serving", I think that is one of the back bones of being a submissive. So men that pay women to do things to them are not expecting domination, they are just serving? Women and men, who take orders from their Dom/me(s) are just doing it just because? No they are getting off on "serving". A real slave in the context of history would do whatever their Master would want, even if it were in their will or not. I think you must realize that although people are submissive, they still have needs that they need to have meet, so even though it may look like their acts of submission are pure slavery, they are serving to recieve the dominance and "serving" that they need. D/s is a two way street, otherwise it would never work out for either party.


If I may, I would point out that you;re mixing two different things, slavery and submission. While the two bear some common characteristics, they are not, for all people, interchangeable. My point is that generalizations do not always serve the discussion. In the reply you quoted I was making that exact case.
While I don't disagree with your assessment as it pertains to ~some~ slaves and submissives, It's not my experience that it is categorically true in every case. I have, indeed, known those who were willling to pay for domination. They had expectations because they were "clients" or "customers". They are in a class by themselves, from my personal point of view. I have known those who defined themselves as both slave and submissive who did, indeed, have expectations of behavior that were due them in return for their service in a quid pro quo context. I have also known those who required nothing more than the opportunity to serve.
While I understand, I think, what you mean by the phrase, "getting off on service", this is not what I am referring to. I am personally acquainted with a few who seek service because they have no other goal than to serve. It's not a sexual fetish, it's not even a turn-on, it's simply what they desire from life.
For every generalization, like every rule, there will be exceptions.
Timothy



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Define Slave (7/31/2005 7:56:07 PM)

Just an interesting point to add. I was browsing through some old issues of "Skin Two" magazine yesterday and happened to find an interesting spread on a Murray & Vern fashion show at the Torture Garden which featured fashions with swastika's and Nazi symbolism.

"Bold use of house colors orange and navy blue, uniforms, a continuation of the M&V stretch style, Nazi-bitch detailing, rubber crosses and union jacks, medical pink rubber corsetry, and to cap it all, Matthew & Nichola from Minty in baby-walker and horns belting out the Minty classic "How can they call this art?" while the swastika'd models pull on their straps."
SkinTwo, Spring 97, Issue 22, Page 31

The article featured photos of many of the fashions, including swastikas.

Skin Two

Murray and Vern

So, for those of you who think Nazi play/imagery doesn't exist in bdsm, or that it wouldn't be tolerated...



twistedcouple -> RE: Define Slave (7/31/2005 9:28:08 PM)

Slaves are slaves because they define themselves as such.

The days of property actually being owned is no longer allowed, at least in this society, as such, slaves are there by THEIR choice.

Some may state that that is what they are, what they were born to be, *shrug*. Its still their choice if they were to simply walk out a door. There isn't one thing even the strongest dom could do if their slave chose to walk away. Such as it is, the slave is a slave because they choose to be.

Its not a collar, nor a word, nor a Master that defines a slave. A slave is a slave because they choose to be.

I actualy had a slave chastise me recently because I didnt immediately intuit from her name (it had slave in it) that she had a Master.

Seems that alot of people define themselves as slave, and dont necessarily need a Master to do so, and vice versa.

We define ourselves, and a slave is no less a slave for not being owned and a Master no less a Master for not owning a slave.

Its all about Choice. That is what defines what we are.




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