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Why are there so few professional submissives in the US - 8/20/2007 9:55:01 PM

wintermute128

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As far as I can tell there are very few professional submissives in the United States. Without doing an accurate survey, I'd say perhaps one pro-Sub for every pro-Domme. In contrast, the United Kingdom, with it's active spanking community (they call it the English Vice for a reason) seems to have a lot more pro-Subs who bottom in spanking sessions.

I assume that all of the Dommes (women tops) would not exist if there were no market for their services. So perhaps the answer is that there are just lots of male bottoms in the US. I know that the dating/romantic spanking community leans heavily toward M/F (male top) spanking. If you're a male bottom it appears very hard to find a romantic partner to top you. Perhaps this creates a market for pro-Dommes. Or perhaps being a professional submissive is more dangerous, so fewer women choose to do it. Any ideas on this? Any professional Dommes out there (or pro-Subs) who would like to venture an answer?

Curiously yours,

Wintermute

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/20/2007 10:19:46 PM

briska

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Personally, I think one pro-sub for every pro-domme is a bit much an estimate for the US. Maybe more like 1/3 or 1/4. Also, there's probably a bunch of reasons it's so - safety, lack of a nonproDom base who would pay for a spanking session, etc.

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/20/2007 10:21:09 PM

SusanofO

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I think being a Pro-submissive (female) probably is pretty dangerous.

Although, I imagine there are probably ways around this (like working in a brothel-type of place where there is security, etc). But being out on your own would be pretty dangerous, I imagine.

I know in the UK, there is more emphasis on spanking in all of those Enlgish boarding schools, hehe (or maybe that's just a myth) - maybe they have a "spanking fetish" over there, I dunno (and that sounds like a generalization, even to me, and I am not sure if it's true or not). If they are offerring a lot of mostly submission to spanking, but not submissive to much more hard-core Domination (whipping, branding) that could be a reason as well. Any Pro-female sub (or any Pro BDSM player period) will have a list of things they will and won't do - maybe they are only submitting to spanking?

Or maybe female submissives just feel less of a social inclination to "go Pro", maybe they are more shy about that kind of thing? I am just not sure. Good question.

I know I've seen some listed in larger cities like NYC. But on the whole, you are right - there seem to be lot more female Pro Dommes. And as a lot, male submissives don't seem that dangerous (to me). They are the sweeter type - I can't imagine a male submissive beating up a woman in a really damaging way (although I imagine there have been exceptions to this). Not because they couldn't - they just seem not likely to do that (Please - no flames for this last comment!).

On the other hand with a male Dominant as a customer, you'd know that one reason they were coming to you at all was because, on some level, they did want to "beat you up" (even if it is supposed to be enjoyable and consensual). That sounds a wee bit scary to me - if we are talking about taking on complete strangers you know zero about.

There are ways around that as well (like having a "get to know you" period, first, as well as insisting on ID, etc.) But it still strikes me as less safe than the Pro female Domme-male submissive situation. If some man goes to a Pro submissive female, I figure they can always tell themselves; "Hey - I am paying for it. She "owes" me - and I am not leaving until I teach her a lesson for "not doing what I paid for" , or: "Because I am paying anyway, so why not, I can get away with it", etc.

Their "head" is already into "Dominant mode" from the scene they've just been in - and it sounds like it could be an accident waiting to happen in some ways, especially with a dis-satisfied client. Not that all clients do this (or maybe even very many). But how many with an attitude like that would you want to risk encountering?

But it is still a very good question, IMO. Hmmm.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/20/2007 11:16:07 PM >

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/20/2007 10:26:07 PM

OedipusRexIt

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I have no idea if this is true, let alone why it might be.

My only thought might be that there simply isn't a market for them. For example, it would never occur to go to one. Even a convincing actress is still acting, when it comes to the elan vital which genuine emotional connection brings to the scene.

IMO, of course. Some people seem to actually favor the deadness of no connection. Let 'em....

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/20/2007 10:31:46 PM

SusanofO

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Oh, I think there are definitely fewer female Pro submissives than Pro Dommes. I am fairly convinced it is mostly a safety concern, too. But that is just an intuitive hunch, not evidence.

A perusal of the "Professional Services" section of CM verifies that hunch (at least at CM). Not many Pro-submissive females listed, compared to Pro-Dommes, at all. More female Pro-submissives, than male Pro-Doms, but still not many female Pro-subs (and I don't see any Pro-male subs listed there - at all).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/20/2007 11:30:06 PM >

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"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/20/2007 10:37:33 PM

briska

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There's a good book/memoir on the subject, too, called The Pleasure's All Mine. It was one girl's 'journey' into becomming a Professional Submissive. It definately gives the vibe that she is one in a hundred. if you're seriously wondering, this book names quite a few good reasons why there are few pro-subs. (Mostly danger, since in many scenes you get tied down - hence the male sub not being as scary as the male Dom - the male sub will be the one tied down, not you)

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/20/2007 10:56:19 PM

MsSophie

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Firstly I am not so sure there are more pro-subs in the UK than in the US. In fact, the reputable pro-subs I have heard of has been in the US.
I think one of the reasons for there being very few pro-subs in the business is that it is more dangerous, sure, but I also think there is a matter of finances. To set up as a pro-sub, and live off it, you would have to (in my corner of the world) pull in an equivalent of US$ 800 a week just to survive and pay your rent, you also need to pay a "minder" to be with you during sessions. With the risk of bruising, and such the amount of clients you could see in a week would be limited, so your fees would have to be very high. Not many would be able to buy your services at those rates

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/20/2007 10:59:49 PM

SusanofO

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Ms Sophie: Great point about the physical healing period it would require, (and also paying for security) and thus being not as financially profitable. That also makes perfect sense to me.Thanks for the information.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/20/2007 11:35:44 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 3:44:36 AM

Cyntilating

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This concept confuses me...
trying to wrap my head around being able to actually submit> so casually, to frquently changing partners, where $ is the motivator vs emotional and mental service. Is there trust involved? how is that established on a rotating basis?

and giving total control of oneself to randomly selected ( because they can pay the fee ) aggressive and controlling/control-based type individuals > not only confuses me, it has "victim" written all over it. ..imo..
is it more of a "bottoming" ( to a Topping ) situation??...and then adding the $$ exchange part ?

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Cyndi

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 4:07:29 AM

Switchblayde

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A pro submissives perspective.

I work as a pro sub out of London and have to put a lot of trust in people I know very little about. I ask a lot of questions and use my own judgement and intuition but even then there are no guarrantees. Once restrained, a session can go anywhere.

Healing times depend on the kind of session. After a caning or a whipping I have to consider both the recovery time and the fact that the next client will invariably want me unmarked at the start of the session so that any marks after are his alone.

Yes, I can submit casually to many different partners, the degree of submission depends on how dominant the client is. Though money is the motivator, its not the only one and I enjoy what I do and my clients can see that I do. Despite the dangers, it is my work and I enjoy it.

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 4:16:35 AM

goodpet

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We sometimes have a pro-Dom/Top (female) and a pro-bottom (female) stay with us when working in the DC area. The Top does seem to have much more work.

bottom line in my opinion is that there are more pro-Dom-Females then any other kind of pro in the lifestyle. The reason is safety, and availability. Easier to find an available sub the it is for a male bottom to find a willing female Top willing to do what they want and need. A typical female Top is going to do what she wants to.. but many male subs are going to get a need met and want a certain kind of scene. Many of the men who go to a pro-Dom do have a lot of time to invest in a lifestlye relationship, so a quick-fix once in awhile with someone who will design the type of scene to your wishes is worth the money. (i don't mean script the scene but more give the type of scene wanted).

Remember, a pro-Top is a service Top, giving the bottom what they need and want.

If you are a Top you get to do a scene the way you want anyways (most of the time) so you don't have to pay someone to bottom to your liking. You just do it.

With the two we have visit us, often the pro-Top is also with the pro-bottom when she is working, or at least on site at the dungeon. I know, just form knowing these two and watching a few scenes (non-paid), that they both put their hearts and emotions into, there is a connection made by them. On the flip side, we are friends with another pro-sub who seems much more dispassionate about it, it more a job, more about humilation and subjection for her then an emotional connection and hot scene. Sometime her Dom is there, they do some paid co-topping scenes (He co-tops and she bottoms, good way from some new Tops to learn a skill).

So it is availability and service willing to be rendered.

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 4:24:15 AM

Dnomyar

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I have seen a Pro Sub in here who wants $200 a session.

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 4:28:49 AM

Cyntilating

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Switchblayde
...it is intersting reading your response..thanks for that.
I'm glad you feel you are taking safety pre-cautions, because it does sound dangerous... do you primarily do this in clients homes or private rooms? or in clubs or where scenes are monitored ( as Goodpet has talked about..below) by others to help with your safety?

interesting to think about...going to keep reading...
thanks again...

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Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 4:39:49 AM

Cyntilating

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Goodpet

yes, your information and description of this, makes sense to me. I don't wanna get hung up on terminology ( sub vs bottom) but, a bottom surrenders the control of her body...
which in your description is much more plausible.
vs. submission, which surrenders ones will and control of body, as well as emotionally and mentally.
thanks for your imput..

will keep reading..

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Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 5:21:18 AM

Switchblayde

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You're welcome. It is dangerous but I take what precautions I can. I visit clients or go to their hotels when they are in town. I also use rented dungeons or my own home where I have a converted play space.
I dont work out of clubs but am not averse to the idea should the opportunity arise. It would provide that extra element of safety.
Besides the ever present risk of a client not respecting a safeword (which I'm reluctant to use because of the nature of my work) is the client who is inexperienced with the toys he wishes to use on me. This is something difficult to judge as they dont always know themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating

Switchblayde
...it is intersting reading your response..thanks for that.
I'm glad you feel you are taking safety pre-cautions, because it does sound dangerous... do you primarily do this in clients homes or private rooms? or in clubs or where scenes are monitored ( as Goodpet has talked about..below) by others to help with your safety?

interesting to think about...going to keep reading...
thanks again...

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Jamais vaincu..........

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 5:32:16 AM

BunnyButt

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The market in certain cities might be low... but in places like NYC just as recently as 2001, it certainly wasn't.

When a gentleman involved with a local group discovered that my roommate and I were both involved in the pro-sub "industry" on our own, he helped us with our customer base by introducing us to ladies and gentlemen who were visiting NYC and desired someone to play with.

Neither of us were acting - we were both active members of the BDSM community in our private lives and enjoyed different kinds of play. The lack of connection, well... yes, sometimes. But in general, the two other pro-subs I knew worked just as hard as we did to make the client feel comfortable enough to let go, to enjoy him/herself, and to participate fully in the scene.

I stopped because I made the money I needed to, and didn't need to do it anymore. Would I do it again? Yep. In a heart beat. I enjoyed it. I was never threatened, I was never harmed. I felt unsafe at times, and I'm sure I took chances I shouldn't have... but it worked out in the end.

Bunny

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 5:34:58 AM

mnottertail

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I think that the reason there are so few prosubs in the industry is that when I get done with them they feel so dirty, shamed and used, that they can't face another day of it.

Ron

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 5:42:48 AM

bettamorphasis

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oh oh.. another penis that needs etiquette training...or an enlargement prolly would help train the mouth .. feel so dirty ... polleez anyway .. best go tend to your "stable" or harem

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 6:02:03 AM

mnottertail

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A buncombe observation, at the very most, thanks for contributing so little to so many.
Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Why are there so few professional submissives in th... - 8/21/2007 7:13:49 AM

MasterMataeo

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one reason ,, there are so few fewm pro-subs ,, is that there are so many demented Dom's out there who dont know ettiquette or when to stop , and hence the best way for the ladies not to get into that possition is not to ,,,
and well sub guys have a tendancy to stand up when someting is going wrong ,, as where a woman might be afraid ,, or the "Dom" is a bit overbearing and rough,, to the point many pro fem-subs might jsut go with it out of fear of being hurt or even worse,,
hence one reason that therer are so few whom do it for $$ ,, it really isnt worth it emotionaly or physicaly ,, but that is just wht i have observerd

MM

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