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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 6:12:52 AM   
naughtytoddler


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/24/2007
Status: offline 		YourShyPet. You and my baby sister should go bowling..Shes in child Psychology..I swear, she pulls her psycho-analyzing BS on me all the time when her and I talk on the phone..I cant freakin stand it..drive me nuts..I just wanna hang up on her..Just once I'd like it if she could be my sweet sister I treasure instead of hearing her psycho-babble..I just wanna hurl..-Darien.-

(in reply to Neala)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 6:25:19 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

::chuckles:: 
Wait!  We have more interesting sex lives than just plain missionary sex and no change day after day!  According to the super  psychology book it means we ARE deeply desturbed individuals!   Oh, what a shame!  Bring on destrubia.

::grins::

DSM-IV says we can get sectioned, simply for being...  It's only funny til they put you in the little room without the window and fill you full of anti psychotics after they've stolen your clothes.

(in reply to SirDraco7)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 7:38:46 AM   
SirDraco7


Posts: 108
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neala

We'll start with SirDraco since he's at the top of the people I wanna respond to.

Peering and proding at someone online is never a good thing. At least in my opinion. You can assume things...but one person's reaction could be different from the next. You have to treat it on a case by case basis. I do tend to analyze people and why they do what they do. I have a weak spot for wanting to know all I can about someone. Could be why I'm going to school to be a shrink. However, I always leave room to be wrong. I also don't try to poke too much at someone online. Not enough information when you're talking online. Or even on the phone...really. I reserve all my judgements for in person.



I can see your point somewhat.  But I wonder why peering and proding online could be always a bad thing?  I can see it being bad if it's done too much or too deeply.  But wouldn't and couldn't it be a way to get to know someone better and perhaps even build up trust?  Espesialy if you treat it on a case by case basis?
Assumptions are natural from everything, both online and off.  Which is sometimes why I ask as many questions as I do in getting to know someone, because I don't want to assume things, I'd perfer to know them.  But it happens.  Wouldn't more knowledge lead to less assumptions?
But I see your point, online being that which it is it is and would be much harder to figure out who lies and who doesn't here.
As for in person vs online and on the phone...  I don't see how it varies that much.  The difference with in person is you can see them, their eyes their actions and their reactions, so in that sense.  Aside from that I don't see how there could be any more or less information as online, unless you are talking about more than the "getting to know you/first meeting stage"  People lie in person just as much as they do and would online.  Though...  Those who lie are less likely to meet offline so...  ::shrugs::(Note: I'm not saying all liers don't meet offline, but many don't in my experience, and even then were they truly liers seeing they just disappeared?  Can't say for sure but all signs point to yes sort of thing.)
It can be a good thing to reserve judegments for person, Something that I agree more people should do, including myself.  Typically I don't analyze what they do or why.(unless it's bad or negative)  I'm a "to each their own type of person".    I analyze the information that someone gives me about themselves.  I analyze their profile and the answers they give to any questions I ask, as well as how they react to my answers to their questions.
I'm like you in a way, in how I am.  I do take everyone in a case by case basis, everyone is unique, so why lump everyone together based on first impressions?  I too have a weak spot in wanting to know everything about someone, but like you I leave room for error.  I very rarely take anything for face value online unless I know said person for an extended period of time.   Heck if I didn't learn to enjoyanalyzing and learning people as much as I do, as late as I have been I might've gone to school to be a shrink as well.  No matter though I love my job now anyways.

basically..  all in all  Why is proding and peering online always bad?(never good= always bad correct?  :)  )

Just my varied and abstract thoughts.  :) 
Thanks for your words and thoughts they are much appreciated. 

(in reply to Neala)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 7:45:05 AM   
SirDraco7


Posts: 108
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
DSM-IV says we can get sectioned, simply for being...  It's only funny til they put you in the little room without the window and fill you full of anti psychotics after they've stolen your clothes.

Who says we are not all already in that room right now?  Each living their varied existance on in their mind on a anti psychotics induced haze?  Matrix-esque.
Could that explain why sometimes people feel naked even though they are wearing clothes?  Maybe it's because they actually are naked and them wearing the clothes is just in their mind?  lol   ;)

How's that for abstract thinking? 
maybe I should'nt have watched the matrix last night...  lol

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 8:23:04 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		Perhaps not, but who am I to analyse?

(in reply to SirDraco7)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 8:33:27 AM   
Neala


Posts: 70
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		I think you can get to know a person some what by their words online. I just...think over analyzing someone with their responces when they can not put the full depth of their feelings in to something (like they can in person) is not a good thing. People can't help but judge. I can see how someone typing "I like to drain the blood from goats and paint my walls with it" would be a good time to analyze someone and NOT meet them in person. Lol

The thing with the in person bit is just that. I can see their reactions. If someone appears to be calm and I ask them a certain question and it makes them very nervous...I can assume the answer makes them uncomfortable or they are going to tell me a lie. Online..I can not see this. I can not hear their voice. Maybe I'm just an old soul (so says the eighteen year old) I like seeing someone when I speak with them. I hate waiting forever to meet someone in person. I figure if I like you and you like me..then...we can't go further online then the liking stage. Let's meet in person!

So..all in all..I may have just rambled a lot. My point is....judging someone on line can lead to a lot of mistakes. I know often times what I say on the phone or type on the computer is misunderstood. My words only get me so far. I express a lot in facial expressions. So, I try not to analyze someone too much online. To a degree analyzing someone online is a good thing. Analying rather or not their hobbies, interests and stuff like that will mix with yours is very good. Getting to know someone beyond that (in my opinion) from a computer screen is just a waste of time.

There ya have it.





< Message edited by Neala -- 8/27/2007 8:42:04 AM >

(in reply to SirDraco7)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 9:17:11 AM   
SirDraco7


Posts: 108
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neala

I think you can get to know a person some what by their words online. I just...think over analyzing someone with their responces when they can not put the full depth of their feelings in to something (like they can in person) is not a good thing. People can't help but judge. I can see how someone typing "I like to drain the blood from goats and paint my walls with it" would be a good time to analyze someone and NOT meet them in person. Lol

The thing with the in person bit is just that. I can see their reactions. If someone appears to be calm and I ask them a certain question and it makes them very nervous...I can assume the answer makes them uncomfortable or they are going to tell me a lie. Online..I can not see this. I can not hear their voice. Maybe I'm just an old soul (so says the eighteen year old) I like seeing someone when I speak with them. I hate waiting forever to meet someone in person. I figure if I like you and you like me..then...we can't go further online then the liking stage. Let's meet in person!

So..all in all..I may have just rambled a lot. My point is....judging someone on line can lead to a lot of mistakes. I know often times what I say on the phone or type on the computer is misunderstood. My words only get me so far. I express a lot in facial expressions. So, I try not to analyze someone too much online. To a degree analyzing someone online is a good thing. Analying rather or not their hobbies, interests and stuff like that will mix with yours is very good. Getting to know someone beyond that (in my opinion) from a computer screen is just a waste of time.


It makes sense.  I know all too well the complexities of misunderstanding things.  Perhaps I'm a complex person, but people tend to misunderstand me sometimes.  Which is why many times I tend to overexplain myself, to lessen the chance of such happening.  However I am wholeheartedly in agreement.  Online can only go so far and offline is a much much better way to learn about and judge someone.  But typically you have to roll with the punches, and take things as they come, because the nature of life, in and of itself, in unpredictable.
Maybe you are an old soul, age never matters in distinction of such, so you never know.  Stranger things have been true, but that's not something that can be judged online, not in my opinion anyways.

As for getting to know people via a computer screen...  While to an extent I agree, I also think it might not always be a waste of time.  Some great friends of mine I've never met, seperated by great distances, yet I know them well, and all via the computer.  Might they be not whom they say?  perhaps, but I'll take that should it ever come, I just look back at all the smiles laughs and good conversations and ask myself does it really matter? 
Directed to relationships, I agree.  Getting involved online and staying online and then moving to offline expecting all to work just as well as online is a big waste of time and a big set up for disappointment and failure.  Relationships can only go so far online, too far and you're taking a chance that you're wasting each other's time.(not saying it doesn't happen, but they are more of an exception than the rule)

As always just my thoughts...


(in reply to Neala)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 4:55:17 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neala

Do you have enough money to be worth suing?


Doubtfully.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Neala)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 5:01:47 PM   
Neala


Posts: 70
Joined: 8/1/2007
Status: offline 		Damn.

Hours of bludgeoning it will have to be.

That is...if I find you gulity of analyzing someone.


< Message edited by Neala -- 8/27/2007 5:02:23 PM >

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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 5:03:27 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

DSM-IV says we can get sectioned, simply for being...  It's only funny til they put you in the little room without the window and fill you full of anti psychotics after they've stolen your clothes.


Er... no. DSM-III said that. DSM-IV clearly states that a required criterion for a diagnosis is that it must cause significant impairment in one or more important areas of life. I don't know about you, but I'm not any more impaired by this than by any other aspect of how I choose to live my life. And any place that sticks antipsychotics in a rational, lucid person for engaging in most regular kinks will probably have a rather negative review when that person gets out and tells media and review boards.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 6:26:18 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		Right, but that significant impairment can include socially, which can include say, you oh-so-loving-and-understanding family.

If a behaviour is deemed a "fetish", it can be deemed an impairment.  Does it happen, not often, but it could/can.

(Incidentally, I met someone who'd been sectioned because of this.  It was, weird, to put it mildly.  But there was more to the story than simply that.)

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/27/2007 7:33:12 PM   
iammachine


Posts: 1549
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline 		What I find terribly amusing is when a complete stranger seems to feel that somehow they know better than I do what I may want or need.  For example, when I told someone that I wasn't particularly interested in any form of relationship at the moment, they told me that I would jump at the chance to be "owned" if it came up. Hmm... nope, I don't think so, but thanks for playing!

Those and the pop psychologists that explain my motivations to me, especially when how I feel doesn't agree with what they want, are just a giggle a minute. I'm not a psychologist, nor am I even a psyche major...

I did, however (I had the pleasure of having not one but two of the elders in my family happen to be psych profs...) happen to spend my entire life listening to lectures about psychology. So whereas I may not be qualified to pass any judgements, I think at the very least, having a pretty solid background in knowing myself, and a pretty solid background in being hyperanalytical....  I think I just might have a fairly solid handle on things for myself in that dept, k thx., "Dr. Dom phd".

In this case, I reference phd as "piled higher and deeper". 

_____________________________

I still hear you scream... in every breath, every single motion

(in reply to Neala)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 7:45:41 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Right, but that significant impairment can include socially, which can include say, you oh-so-loving-and-understanding family.


Technically, yes. In practice, I think that is very rare.

And you could always say that the problem existed long before the kink.

quote:


If a behaviour is deemed a "fetish", it can be deemed an impairment.  Does it happen, not often, but it could/can.


Yes. But that requires it to be a necessary component to arousal, and doesn't merit inpatient "care".

quote:


(Incidentally, I met someone who'd been sectioned because of this.  It was, weird, to put it mildly.  But there was more to the story than simply that.)


There's always more to such stories.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 9:40:38 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I think some feel that it may give them an edge in. That kind of thinking that says 'see I'm paying attention to you to the point where I know what's best for you [immediately]'.  'I am wise so therefore I know you better than you could possibly know yourself.'

I find it annoying and amusing.




Isn't it unethical for a psychiatrist to have private sessions scheduled with someone he/she is having a relationship with? I can't remember for sure and this sentence really struck me for some reason.


quote:



nope i haven't

however Daddy's a respected psychiatrist - no analyzing unless i schedule a private session like the rest of His patients



_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 10:13:09 AM   
wittman40


Posts: 29
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		Disclaimer: In real life I'm a psychiatrist BUT no-one here's paying me nearly enough to analyse them ;) and,in any case, unless I'm somewhat involved with someone I can't be bothered foisting my analysis on anyone. I've got better things to do with my time than analyse everyone and I know lots of people don't care to be analysed ;).


In all seriousness though I think that its simply a case of "a little knowledge being a dangerous thing". Almost everyone out there has seen a bit of Dr Phil or read some self-help book or taken a few classes and a certain subsection believes they can wax lyrical about the Oedipal complex and the conflict between the id, ego and superego and that their insights are the most penetrating, fascinating ones to ever be thought of.

Analysing others is a part of life, we ALL analyse others to try and guess their motivations, drives, desires etc --- any sub or slave who tries to figure out how best to please her Master is engaging in analysis of his drives, mood and possible desires --- I don't think that's a problem on its own but I do think that when someone is deluded enough to think that they can succesfully unearth the inner core of a person through stupid situational questions within a few minutes then things get a bit ridiculous.

So, I would argue that the problem isn't that analysis takes place as that's normal and everyone ( vanilla, Dom, sub, slave, switch ) does that. The problem comes when people idiotically believe their abilities are as good as their narcissistic self-view says they are ;) AND foist their "insights" onto others who don't welcome them.


SirDraco,
As to wondering what they write about people in the lifestyle and their drives etc. Well it mostly falls into three categories:
1. Subs - borderline personality disorders with an element of dependency.
2. Salves - a much greater element of dependency.
3. Doms -  Either Narcissists or anti-social personality types ( aka socio/psychopaths ).

Don't forget that sadism and masochism are still diagnosable psychiatric disorders nowadays ;). On the plus side so was homosexuality up until a few decades ago so, overall, I really wouldn't worry what the psychiatric profession says about us ;).



Anyone who actually was properly qualified would tell you in a heartbeat that the BEST way to get to know someone is simply to listen and let them talk over time ( just as that's the best way to get to know someone in a relationship ) . I've lost track of the number of times I've been seeing a patient and a single sentence they let slip while rambling on about some inane topic or another suddenly highlights the route past all their defence mechanisms to the heart of the matter. Anyone who is trying to rush it ( and isn't engaging in paid short-term dynamic psychotherapy) is:
a) showing inexperience and ineptitude IMO.
b) missing out on the enjoyable experience of getting to know someone gradually - why rush something you should be enjoying?
c) probably not for real because by the time I finish work I want to relax and chat with people I can enjoy chatting to. I don't have a mad urge to continue working for free ;)


Aswad,
Well, two different points there....
It needs to cause significant impairment for you to get sectioned BUT not necessarily for you to get diagnosed. Most people here ( myself included ) will easily deserve a diagnosis of a sexual fetish/sadism/masochism. Would we get sectioned for it?  Not in my country, thankfully, but you could in some countries which are a bit less live and let live.

(in reply to caught4u)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 2:58:58 PM   
SirDraco7


Posts: 108
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Isn't it unethical for a psychiatrist to have private sessions scheduled with someone he/she is having a relationship with? I can't remember for sure and this sentence really struck me for some reason.


Didn't a famous star just get involved with their psychologst?
I'm not sure if it's unethical or not, though it makes sense.  I would say at the very least it's unwise to do so.  Mostly because of the fact that you need to me neutral and impartial.  Having a relationship would flaw that and might cause you to miss something which you might otherwise see.  That plus the fact that it might endanger the relationship.  "sorry darling, I think you have slight depression"  "I do not"  etc etc etc...

Just my inexperienced assumptions

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 3:10:49 PM   
SirDraco7


Posts: 108
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittman40
Disclaimer: In real life I'm a psychiatrist
Analysing others is a part of life
SirDraco,
As to wondering what they write about people in the lifestyle and their drives etc. Well it mostly falls into three categories:

Anyone who actually was properly qualified would tell you in a heartbeat that the BEST way to get to know someone is simply to listen and let them talk over time


Thank you for that, and very well said wittman.
I'm very much in agreement with what you said, talking and listening to someone tells you a lot about who the person is.
I've also thought that those who make rash and forceful opinions upon others are mostlikely the same class of people who "dom" others via First e-mails.  ::chuckles:: maybe not though.

Reguarding what is said about BDSM roles that is interesting to hear.  I'm glad to hear not to worry, even though I was not worried anyways lol.

It was an interesting and appreciated reply.  :)

(in reply to wittman40)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 3:29:09 PM   
wittman40


Posts: 29
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		As re:  therapists and clients getting involved:

1. It is unethical if you are treating the person. You may have treated them in the past but so long as you refer them on to someone else and wait a period of time before contacting them to pursue a relationship it is deemed ethical. Exactly how long to wait and whether it is a GOOD idea are open to debate but at least you won't lose your licence if you follow those rules.

2. There's no real problem with seeing someone you are already in a relationship with. It isn't usually a good idea for either party but since the relationship is already formed it isn't unethical.


The main reason why it isn't allowed is that the client isn't falling for you but for what they have projected onto you. They are falling in love with the transference they have put onto you and not you so it is highly unlikely to be a stable, long-lasting relationship and is just likely to do them a lot of harm in the medium to long term, albeit highly gratifying in the short term.


SirDraco7,
Amen to that ( about the people who make rash judgements being the same who try to dom in the first email ;) ). Well just cause you are dominant ( or more likely a wannabe) doesn't mean you aren't an idiot ;). And as to what psychiatrists say - well these are the same guys who recently diagnosed a 5 month old baby with PTSD after it had emergency abdominal surgery at 1 month of ago. When dealing with common stuff psychiatry has a lot of utility and can do good but at the edges it really isn't worth listening to much IMO.

(in reply to SirDraco7)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 4:28:18 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Right, but that significant impairment can include socially, which can include say, you oh-so-loving-and-understanding family.

If a behaviour is deemed a "fetish", it can be deemed an impairment.  Does it happen, not often, but it could/can.

(Incidentally, I met someone who'd been sectioned because of this.  It was, weird, to put it mildly.  But there was more to the story than simply that.)


Sorry, significant impairment means you can't function. Your shoe fetish prevents you from getting to work, because you are transfixed by the display in the shoe store around the corner, you spend all your time at work covertly eying your coworkers shoes. You lose your job. You can't pay the rent because you spend all your money buying shoes.

That's significant impairment, not telling your mother that you only date women who will wear 6" heels. And in the modern world, you cannot be kept in a hospital against your will unless you are judged to be harmful to yourself or others. Plus if you refuse to agree to hospitalization you have the right to an attorney to fight on your behalf. As hospitals do not like paying vast fees for imprisoning people against their will, nor the press that such suits involve, they will not take your mother's word for it. Despite the fact that porn fantasies of being held restrained and abused are common.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
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RE: Online Psychologist? - 8/28/2007 5:23:36 PM   
servantheart


Posts: 960
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

~fr~

if I ever go Kung-Freud on someone...


LOL...I love Your sense of humor!
 


_____________________________

When you really trust someone, you have to be okay with not understanding some things.
~Real Live Preacher, Real Live Preacher weblog, 07-08-04; Anonymous author of RealLivePreacher.com

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 60
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