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RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/25/2007 11:46:38 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nottalking
Now I wonder why a person would agree to "rent" themselves out as well.


That's a bit more complicated.

From what you've said, you're still trying to sort out what you've absorbed already, and this is an "advanced" (in the sense of not well suited to beginners, not in the sense of "improved" or (necessarily) "complicated") practice that people who are already into all of this- and have been for many years- have divided opinions on. It may be best to leave this topic for when you have "figured out" the rest, or it will be a bit like trying to build a radio while understanding the basics about lightbulbs and batteries.

Modified to include name in backquote.

If it's not too personal, might you elaborate on reasons for renting out a slave, in your personal life or/and your perception of the more general practice?

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 12:35:52 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Hi, CuriousLord.

The first part is that it's a kink, just like any other. I haven't analyzed it a whole lot, but I figure it has to do with utility for me- kind of a subset of objectification- along with the bits about humiliation (for those who find it so, and not in the sense of taking someone below their station, but taking them to their station, as a slave). Then there's the bit about the inner child beaming with pride at the finest thing s/he has: a slave whose commitment and devotion is at such a level that they are ready to do it. I would not hire/lend out someone without being confident they could handle it, just as I would not cross any other line before it was time.

The second part is being systematic about the nature of the power dynamic, particularly in a case where the slave is also loved in a romantic sense, something that can be difficult to untangle from that dynamic where such feelings exist (at least for me). A slave is- as I use the word- property in the primitive sense of the word, and I find it mentally enforces that view to systematically find the areas where I am not thinking in those terms, and changing that thought pattern through action, thus further internalizing a natural attitude that combines the dual role of property and companion. Which is, again, not to say I would do so without considering relationship limits (limits to the scope of the prior informed consent), or without considering if the slave can deal with it. I think with the right head, and just make a note of it along with the other "great tourist spots" along the path toward perfection of an ideal. Neither does that imply that I cease to think of the person in terms of a person, or that my feelings for that person would weaken, merely that the two concepts (property and human) are brought to coexist in harmony.

Third, for some it can be practical. That has not been the case for me, though I don't discount the possibility that it might be at some point (cf. Indecent Proposal), just that I haven't encountered a situation where hiring/lending out would have been a practical solution to a problem I have encountered. A slave- again, in the sense I use the word- has an intrinsic utility value, in addition to their value as a human. Like daddysprop commented, if I use someone as a human urinal, it's not because of the kink value in it, but because a human is way better than one of those fancy Japanese contraptions. Although the kink aspect doesn't hurt, of course.

Fourth, it can be a learning experience for the right person. They are not serving the person they are being hired/lent to, but me. Under the right circumstances, with the right person, it can help them with their focus on that. Just as she grins and bears it for me when I indulge my sadistic side, she is submitting to my will in- to the best of her ability- filling the role I have cast her in. That can be powerful. I haven't done that with nephandi yet, as only one candidate has been up to my standards so far, and his relationship to us would complicate things, so I took the easy way out of not trying to predict whether that might lead to akwardness later. But at the right point in time, it will most likely be so for her.

Lastly, and quoting GhitaAmati's Sir from memory, there's something deliciously nasty about "Sure thing, just hose her down when you're done." Provided you're at the right point in the relationship with both her and the person in question, of course, especially if she's in the right frame of mind at that moment as well. Some fantasies can be had in a safe manner with the right people, some must remain fantasies. We happen to share that one. I'd never say that to a random guest, though.

Those are just some thoughts off the top of my head, not very carefully thought out, so take it for what it is.

If you'd like some further elaboration, I'd be happy to provide that tomorrow, here or via PM.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 12:42:21 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Note to self (and others who might comment):

Will elaborate on sacramental aspect, which I forgot about.

LuckyAlbatross and NefertariReborn should be able to offer some insights on that angle as well.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 8/26/2007 12:43:09 AM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 12:59:42 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		Since i am somebody that mentioned STD's in my post.  It is one of many things, I would need to personally take into account and consideration. 

I would never assume any DOM/Master had not addressed this issues or concern, then again I'm not going to assume that they have as well.  In short, I refrain from making any false judgements against another human being.

I most certainly would expect any responsible person to have adequately addressed these issues.

Simply put this activity itself does not automatically mean, that there are those doing it that have  adequately addressed it.  Then there is another variable involved.   Call the responsibilty the person the slave is being hired out to.  Sure, they may agree to "terms XYZ", but will they uphold their end of the agreement.   The Civil Courts deal with countless people that break contracts/agreements every day.

While I may have done everything I felt or thought adequately addressed safety issues, will this other person have done the same.  Sure, they might walk the walk and talk the talk.  So yes, there would need to be a level of trust for all parties involved.

Somebody make a post earlier giving two examples, where it mentally distroyed the sub/slave and another where it made the sub/slave self esteem become enhanced.   However, just to sit here and debate about right and wrong and is it safe or not, does not account for what I call VARIABLES involved in doing this activity.

There many things that need to be taken into consideration, at least I personally feel and view, this as such. 

As we all well know, there are responsible people and not so responsible people in this world.  Just because you are responsible for doing an activity, do not assume other people use the same judgements or hold the same level of responsibility.   Hence, why I will not pass simply pass blind judgements upon people engaging in this activity. 

My previous post, I wrote in a manner of ME, and the thoughts and issues that I wrestle with When thinking about this at some small or even considerable length.  I am certain, that most people would deal with very similar thought processes.   Now, I also expressed this as being a limit for me, because of these issues.  But I would need to also factor in the mental states of the one, I was to hire/loan out.  If I knew it would mentally crush her and send her to being on the brink of suicide or would damage the D/s relationship between us.  I would be wise enough to not do this. 

For me to say, HELL yes I would do this in a heartbeat.  Would be the most stupid and foolish posting I could make on this Message Board.   Thus far, in life this is not an activity I have done. I think I expressed this.  Yes, I have thought about it and dare I admit have had fantasies from time to time.   Thus far it's been for the sake of Wanking Enjoyment.

There are plenty of things that people have fantasies about, however acting upon them is another reality.  Yes, are STD's an issue in the back of mind.  You betcha they are.   If somebody does not or can not understand or accept that this is my own personal issue, well I would say they are being rather judgemental. 

STD's are not my only concern that I have to mentally process and deal with.  There are a number of other issues as well.   One of them deals with Mental Health and stability of the sub/slave, as well how this could effect the D/s relationship itself.  There are other physical welfare concerns as well.   Concerns about permant damage, hell even what if's to consider with accident harm.   Again, I think I have every right to have these has issues or hangups or worries or concerns.   These are my own personal concerns, that I shared with others.

Now, I believe me having these issues on my mind, would perhaps lead me down the path of doing this activitiy in a somewhat responsible manner. 

If I was in a D/s relationship where I knew without question that the sub/slave self esteem would be enhanced by this activity, I would put some more serious consideration to perhaps engaging in this activity.  I would also take myself into consideration and what I ultimately felt comfortable with in the end.  I may not simply want to share them with anybody at all, period. 

A lot would depend upon my accessment of how solid the D/s relationship is/was at the time. Just like any relationship, the moment you start dragging other people into it.  There is a risk of somebody being stolen away, or cheating.   Now, I think it would be a major issue if somebody hires out their sub/slave and their sub/slave falls madly for them.  That this other person makes a sales pitch offering them some bigger better deal.   There is alway a rush or thrill when somebody is with somebody new.  Call it the newness factor.  Again, another concern to think about.

Like any other BDSM activity, it's wise to consider and be aware of the risk or potenial risks involved.  STD's is simply ONE of the risks that I personally have on "my own mind."   Again, I have never engaged in this activity before, and I'm not going to try to pretend I have either.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 1:06:00 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		What's the going rate?

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I'm going to be hired out soon

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 5:02:39 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I'm thinkin some of the crazies here have taken over some people's minds. Renting out a slave can mean any number of things. What's negotiated between Owner and User is simply between them. If sex is involved so be it. To condemn someone because of that is a load of shit. Mainly because it isn't anyone else's business.


But she's asking for an opinion, isn't she?

quote:


Mostly what I see when slaves are loaned or rented out, I see chores. Lots of cleaning and lastly play. And I mean non-sex play. I've done chores for other's in Her Name. Because that's what I'm told to do. I've played with others for Her enjoyment. She likes a good show. I've been assigned hardcore house painting to do for Her friends and such. This is loaning my body and services out. How do I feel about it? I get greeted with a smile and food and a chance to kneel at Her feet and breathe and for that I am greatful.

From Her perspective, She's proud of me and my abilities and services. She's essentially showing off what's Her's. And knowing that other people desire that is a thrill for Her. Finding use for that in Her life is a good thing.

As for the crazy fuckers on the board freakin out over shit...well whatever.



What you are seeing is a lot of people having a lot of problems trying to put themselves in those shoes, either as the renter or the rented.

What was that you said about judging others?

That it works for you and you remain safe ... cool.

But when I consider all the things that can go wrong , given the vagueness of the OP and thus opening up the horizon of what can happen, I see far too many opportunities for disaster.

What I see you doing is projecting your situation onto the OP. But when I read the OP, I see the potential for a lot more happening than you've described.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 5:08:41 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

service is not about mutual love caring or respect...it's about DOING something for someone else

it seems to me far too many people are wrapping up service with that whole romance thing on this thread



What do you mean "far too many"?

For a lot of us, service and mutual caring and respect are inextricably linked.

Doesn't mean it has to be, but for those of us who feel that way, it is.

Personally I cannot and will not bring bdsm into a relationship where there is insufficient affection and respect. It is something I only share with those I care for.

Perhaps for you that's the definition of "crazy fuckers".

<shrug>

Isn't going to change anything for me. I've got 25+ years doing it my way and I've no complaints about it.

What have you got to compare with that?

On edit:
Crap. I'm arguing experience with someone who wasn't born until I was in my fourth+ year of bdsm.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 8/26/2007 5:11:19 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 5:32:32 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Seeing that the OP asked some questions about a controversial topic and never came back to post herself speaks volumes to me about intent.  i took the time to respond to  her original op, i wasn't judgemental and asked her to elaborate on the issue she brought up.  Now she is gone and everyone is arguing the old argument "why are you judging someone elses kink".... am i the only one seeing something wrong here??

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 5:56:14 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

FR

Seeing that the OP asked some questions about a controversial topic and never came back to post herself speaks volumes to me about intent.  i took the time to respond to  her original op, i wasn't judgemental and asked her to elaborate on the issue she brought up.  Now she is gone and everyone is arguing the old argument "why are you judging someone elses kink".... am i the only one seeing something wrong here??


I actually was wondering about this myself.  However, at times we get pulled away from being online for a day or two.  Perhaps she's literally tied up right now.  LOL...

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 6:23:00 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

FR

Seeing that the OP asked some questions about a controversial topic and never came back to post herself speaks volumes to me about intent.  i took the time to respond to  her original op, i wasn't judgemental and asked her to elaborate on the issue she brought up.  Now she is gone and everyone is arguing the old argument "why are you judging someone elses kink".... am i the only one seeing something wrong here??


I actually was wondering about this myself.  However, at times we get pulled away from being online for a day or two.  Perhaps she's literally tied up right now.  LOL...



It might be a case of time difference too. She is in the UK like me and at the moment it is the middle of a beautiful hot summer day (not had many of those this year) so she may well be out enjoying the sunshine.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 6:32:12 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Note to self (and others who might comment):

Will elaborate on sacramental aspect, which I forgot about.

LuckyAlbatross and NefertariReborn should be able to offer some insights on that angle as well.

Aswad,  I'd be interested is hearing these aspects as well.  Yes, I have been reading everything you've shared so far.  I'm just soaking it all in.   

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 6:45:23 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		I read a few of the responses and have come to the conclusion that I am just way too naive for my own good. I supposed "hiring out" to mean some sort of domestic (non-sexual) service.

Even if it is sexual service, I assume the Dom and sub in question have some brainpower and would be as precautionary as if they were engaging in play with others. Adding in a "pimp kink" might be fun. ~shrug~

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 7:00:25 AM   
ThinkingKitten


Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline 		I'm with slaveish. I didn't think sexual use at all on reading the OP... or that it was only one of many possibilities. I expect however, that the OP is a little disappointed that there really haven't been any direct responses to her questions.... the thread has wandered off into an ethical debate between Dom/mes. She might do better to repost (for the first part of her questions) under "Ask a sub/slave".

_____________________________

Thinking Kitten

If you can't stand the heat... tell the chef to get out of the kitchen.

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 7:08:29 AM   
TankII7871


Posts: 174
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		I hire slaves every chance I get.  I own a small company where 1/3 of the people working for me are lifestyle.  Right now I have a slave boy that works for me and even calls me Master in front of the others.  Those that know just smile those that dpn't think its a big laugh. The boy is one of the best workers i have, never bitch and moans always gets the job done.  My office manager is my slave and that does has its perks.  If someone wants a job with my company the fact that they are in the life style is a added perk in general.  I also handle lifestyle employees and nilla ones in a different manner.  A nilla mess's up you have all the yelling and possible paperwork.  Slave boy mess's up i smack him in the back of the head a much quicker and easier way to handle the matter.  When I was new to the lifestyle someone told me this was a lifestyle that was about more than sex I guess I was new and dumb because I believed them.  I have to admit I am a lucky man even the maid is lifestyle.  Now for those that have your mind in the gutter i never have sex with any of the people  in the company lifestyle or nilla other than my girl.  


Eric

Help Wanted strip and apply within  ( a sign i want to put on my office door but wont) 

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 7:16:37 AM   
mercmjm


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		to tell you the truth, it is not worth it now, even if you are not doing it for the money.  Every months to every week I am hearing on the news about these doms being arrested on prositution charges for pimpin our their slave

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 7:25:43 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingKitten

I'm with slaveish. I didn't think sexual use at all on reading the OP... or that it was only one of many possibilities. I expect however, that the OP is a little disappointed that there really haven't been any direct responses to her questions.... the thread has wandered off into an ethical debate between Dom/mes. She might do better to repost (for the first part of her questions) under "Ask a sub/slave".


Well, she asked two questions for directed towards Dom/mes.  In responding to these questions, the matter of why or reasoning behind the answers given is presented.  I myself don't have any personal issues for the non-sexual hiring or hiring out of a slave.  The whole "pimp kink" thing does have a certain attraction for me, but... I have my own set of issues to deal with concerning it. However, I'm not gonna judge anybody on either sides of the fence here.  

I would be great for the OP to come back and respond to a couple of questions asked for additional clarification. 

(in reply to ThinkingKitten)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 7:45:43 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TankII7871


Help Wanted strip and apply within  ( a sign i want to put on my office door but wont) 




_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to TankII7871)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 8:30:15 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

FR

Seeing that the OP asked some questions about a controversial topic and never came back to post herself speaks volumes to me about intent.  i took the time to respond to  her original op, i wasn't judgemental and asked her to elaborate on the issue she brought up.  Now she is gone and everyone is arguing the old argument "why are you judging someone elses kink".... am i the only one seeing something wrong here??


Hey velvet!   Maybe she posted the thread just hours before she was to be 'rented' and she is now on her knees cleaning the corners of a cellar with a toothbrush while being fucked.

To the thread:  Since the OP did not state her duties upon being rented out, it seems just silly to me to assume anything.  If she is being rented out for sex, she is a prostitute.  If she is being rented out for cleaning, she is a maid.  If she is being rented out to carry bags during a shopping trip, she is a personal shopper.  Way too many questions.

i do; however, get very tired of those proclaiming "What's negotiated between Owner and User is simply between them".    That is, in my opinion, merely a lame way of telling us they are right and others are wrong.  Sorry but i do not give a rats ass what has been negotiated between the two of you if you post it on an open forum and i disagree with it.  As Arpig pointed out to me once upon a time, everyone judges, we do it every single day.  And i am not going to stop judging just because some on a message board find it 'wrong'.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 8:46:27 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I haven't done anything along these lines, so I can't address the question directly.

But, I agree with some of the posters that its curious how some automatically give the idea a negative spin.  Specifically, I find problematic the assumption that a caring D or M could never hire out his s and that there is some kind of opposition between caring for someone or valuing them and hiring them out (whether in a barter arrangement, one that involves the exchange of service for money).

The desire/willingness of a D or M to hire out their s could very easily be a manifestation of how much they value and appreciate the service provided by their s and could be considered a high compliment.  Basically, it could be taken as a form of bragging up the s given that the 'hiring out' assumes the objective value of the s's service, that it would be worth something to others.   Also, in a situation where a  s was  hired out, poor service would reflect directly on the  D or M, so it would involve some risk on his or her part.  He or she would have to have some confidence in the s's general abilities to serve in the manner promised so, again, it could be taken as a compliment that the D or M seeks to hire out his or her s.


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Slave for hire!! - 8/26/2007 8:51:16 AM   
rmanrr


Posts: 358
Joined: 7/25/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings
To no one in particular but in a general sense...I do not share My Woman with anyone.....further...I do not share Myself with anyone either.....
Having taken the better part of a year to get to the point we are both at in our relationship...and our dynamic...quite simply we do not.


_____________________________

Be Well, Be Careful

Jarl Rmanrr

"the road untravelled is the loneliest." Me
Courage...the ability to overcome obstacles during the course.
"to be insane is to be original!"...Me

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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