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RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 3:39:34 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I agree with the person who said the best word would be 'inspire' rather than 'make'...it's something hard to explain, but I know that in my past relationships I didn't just wake up one day and say "I want to submit to someone, the first guy who comes along is going to get lucky," but rather it was something that was in me in its potential form, but it takes someone else bringing it out to actualize the potential.



I agree... "Make" to me is a poor use of the word.  Inspired is indeed a better word.  In the end... I think healthy and successful relationhips are Recipocal.. and thus... both are inspired by the other.  We bring out aspects of each other.. sort of like a chemical reactions.. we bring different things to the dynamic that positively reacte and create the relationship.  If the aspects don't meld together.. well it just dies... or worse you have a Bomb in the making... some call it train wreck.



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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 3:59:11 PM   
alandraofMists


Posts: 187
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Stephann made the comment that "It isn't her job to be my slave, I see it as my job to make her my slave."  I see others, both dominants and submissives, give the perception that they either want to make a person submit or be made to submit. 

I don't understand this concept and I would appreciate any clarification on what this means to others and how it plays out in their relationship.

Knight's Kyra


For me I do not understand the concept of being forced to be something that i am not... I am Knight's slave... I am his slave because of who he is, and the relationship that fufills both of us.

To any other I would not be a slave... do not see ever having the ability to be someone elses slave... nor could anyone make me into that person.  That is to say that i would probably be a bottom for anyone else.

Now having expressed that thought... does that mean he helped make me into who I am today by being who he is and being in my life?  Yes, he has impacted my life significantly enough that I do see how the statement "to make her my slave" can be used. 

I can see the use of the word "make" as defined as Him teaching me his wants and the behaviors he wishes me to have... not as him forcing me to become something I am not.

Knight's alandra

< Message edited by alandraofMists -- 8/30/2007 4:00:45 PM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:03:17 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Stephann made the comment that "It isn't her job to be my slave, I see it as my job to make her my slave."  I see others, both dominants and submissives, give the perception that they either want to make a person submit or be made to submit. 

I don't understand this concept and I would appreciate any clarification on what this means to others and how it plays out in their relationship.

Knight's Kyra


I am sure you have seen the quote by Anais Nin floating around here....I've noticed a couple of submissive profiles making reference to it:

quote:


“I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I want a man lying over me, always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot. I don’t mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh, God, as a woman I want to be dominated. I don’t mind being told to stand on my own feet, not to cling, be all that I am capable of doing, but I am going to be pursued, fucked, possessed by the will of a male at his time, his bidding.”


This quote is the first things that leapt to my mind when I read your post.  To my way of thinking, Stephann is right.  The dominant is the one who sets the course, if you will; the role of the dominant is to set the goals, and articulate the vision--to lead and mold the relationship. 

Whether every dominant leads wisely is another topic entirely....but I personally cannot conceive of a dominant who is not leading his submissive by some mechanism....


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RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:07:06 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Some good answers on here.  I've always wanted a submissive that I was interested in to respond to those things inside me that make me dominant.  But I also feel, as do others, that once they feel that want/need to submit to me, it is then up to both of us to make that want/need to submit to me continue to grow AND...important in a two(or more)-sided relationship... make MY need/want to dominate her continue to grow.  In that way, I can understand the use of the word "make" or the word "inspire" or even, in the dominant's case, to "lead" them to be THEIR submissive.

For the submissive, perhaps the use of the word "make" or the word "inspire" or "follow" in a manner that makes the dominant want to be THEIR dominant.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:14:58 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Thank-you, Kyra for posting this!
Of course a dominant could make some one submit, but at what cost?  What they cannot do is make anyone willing to submit. 
That desire must come from the submissive. 

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:18:04 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

On another note, I guess thats why we get along so well. I can be quite an asshole. Its fun.


aaaaawwwwww yes grasshopper... and in time you will be assholes of assholes!


I hope to make you proud, Master.



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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:22:31 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I hope to make you proud, Master.



QUIT being a suckup.... geeezzzzzzzz have you learned nothing about being an Asshole..

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:22:33 PM   
KMsAngel


Posts: 17415
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline 		since this has denigrated into a bit of humour i feel safe in saying "hear bunny bunny, i want those feetsies"... without getting spanked sideways off the thread

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:24:42 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I hope to make you proud, Master.



QUIT being a suckup.... geeezzzzzzzz have you learned nothing about being an Asshole..


Of course.

Your more than welcome to jump over to the "comepetition in the community thread" to see my skills at work.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 4:30:25 PM   
SirEbonyPhoenix


Posts: 195
Joined: 8/29/2006
From: My realm in Central Indiana (you guess where :P)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I didn't want to hijack MadRabbit's thread with this question, so I am starting a new one.

Stephann made the comment that "It isn't her job to be my slave, I see it as my job to make her my slave."  I see others, both dominants and submissives, give the perception that they either want to make a person submit or be made to submit. 

I don't understand this concept and I would appreciate any clarification on what this means to others and how it plays out in their relationship.

Knight's Kyra


This is one of the reasons why, even as a Dominant, there needs to be communication and understanding between a Dom/Master and submissive/slave because what needs to be understood and stressed is that absolutely no one can make anyone a submissive/slave, whether by force or any other means. What also needs to be stressed is that if a submissive or slave has in their nature to serve their Dom or Master, it is done safely, sanely and consensually (that's a lot of adjectives/adverbs! Lol), though if some are RACK, that does not mean that the sub/slave has no rights nor should they be made to do something that they and their Owner have not agreed to when T/they first became a D/s couple. And that's my 99 cents on this topic.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 6:22:38 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

On another note, I guess thats why we get along so well. I can be quite an asshole. Its fun.


aaaaawwwwww yes grasshopper... and in time you will be assholes of assholes!


KoM....with all due respect....you aint an asshole, you're the WHOLE ass!

(quote courtesy of my wolf, who says that all the time about himself, then says he doesnt know how i put up with him...)

kitten, who giggles and flees....

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 6:29:58 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

KoM....with all due respect....you aint an asshole, you're the WHOLE ass!

(quote courtesy of my wolf, who says that all the time about himself, then says he doesnt know how i put up with him...)

kitten, who giggles and flees....


LMAO    that is good... and I might add... a mighty nice ass it is that I have too

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to adoracat)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 6:31:30 PM   
apiercedkitty


Posts: 569
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I didn't want to hijack MadRabbit's thread with this question, so I am starting a new one.

Stephann made the comment that "It isn't her job to be my slave, I see it as my job to make her my slave."  I see others, both dominants and submissives, give the perception that they either want to make a person submit or be made to submit. 

I don't understand this concept and I would appreciate any clarification on what this means to others and how it plays out in their relationship.

Knight's Kyra


i think it's most defnitely a two way street. If He doesn't have a certain "presence," i'm not going to be inclined to submit to Him. i have met a lot of guys who hardly garner more than politeness out of me let alone respect.
And, while someone can want to "make" me His slave... i have to want to "give" my submission to Him.

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normal is a setting on a washing machine...

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 7:32:54 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I respond to dominance. I don't offer submission in a vacuum. I only offer submission in response to his dominance. That means I have to feel the vibes first. In this dance, I don't lead, I follow.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 7:37:54 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		It's a hot fantasy, since anyone can tell anyone else to go screw themselves at any moment. In free societies  you still need cooperation to "make" someone do something.

In short-the answer is "fantasy ego fullfillment"-they get humored by the bottom.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 8/30/2007 8:36:53 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		Hi kyra,

i have a love of sayings... One of my favorites is "i do not desire to submit, i desire to be compelled to submit".  (author unknown).   Some might read that and see the word compelled to mean 'made' to submit.  i do not wish to be made to do anything, but i do so desire to have such a great admiration for someone that i am simply compelled to submit.

i do not want to be a brat that has to be 'made' to do something.  If i do not feel it inside, i simply won't do it.

i hope this made sense (end of a long week). 

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 9/1/2007 2:52:40 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I agree with the person who said the best word would be 'inspire' rather than 'make'...it's something hard to explain, but I know that in my past relationships I didn't just wake up one day and say "I want to submit to someone, the first guy who comes along is going to get lucky," but rather it was something that was in me in its potential form, but it takes someone else bringing it out to actualize the potential.



I agree... "Make" to me is a poor use of the word.  Inspired is indeed a better word.  In the end... I think healthy and successful relationhips are Recipocal.. and thus... both are inspired by the other.  We bring out aspects of each other.. sort of like a chemical reactions.. we bring different things to the dynamic that positively reacte and create the relationship.  If the aspects don't meld together.. well it just dies... or worse you have a Bomb in the making... some call it train wreck.




I missed this thread originally it seems.  I'll try to clarify, though others (LA, toservez, MadRabbit, et al) have done an excellent job already.

I wasn't feeling particularly poetic when I wrote the original.  Having said that, I also expected it to rub a number of people the wrong way.  As I've pointed out in the past, being dominant is not the same as being a dominant.  A dominant person naturally assumes positions of authority in social situations.  A dominant, in the D/s context, prefers relationships where they are in positions of authority.  One can prefer to be captain of a ship, without having a clue how to sail.  A natural born sailor won't always be the captain.

I don't like the word inspired.  (Caveat: this is of course in my perspective.)  I think it's an excellent way for the submissive to view someone she serves, certainly, but dominant individuals don't set out to say "Ok, how am I going to inspire this person to obey me."  Rather, it simply happens.  How it happens in any consensual setting is through a combination personal charisma, confidence, and knowledge (among others.)  I don't think these things can be taught, though they can be learned through emulation.

For those who were concerned though, I didn't use the word 'force' either.  One doesn't force submission (in a consensual setting.)  I would say that a dominant person draws submissive desires out.  They are natural traits that naturally reinforce and encourage the other. 

The distinction I was trying to draw, originally, is well summed up by what Celeste had to say.  There are many submissive who are submissive in a vacuum.  Dominants who are not actually dominant people, require this type of submission.  This isn't to say there are two 'types' of dominants and submissives; like sexuality, I'd consider it to be on a scale, but that's another issue.

I hope this clarifies things.

Stephan

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 9/1/2007 4:45:44 AM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

In a different perspective, I would take the words to mean more along the lines of "inspiration".

If someone has the ethical values and character that the slave finds value in, then obedience isnt much of an issue since respect is present.

If someone doesnt have the ethical values and character that the slave finds value in, then obedience is going to be quite an issue since little respect is present.

So...my personal perception of "I have to make someone my slave" is that "I have to strive to be a person that I trust and respect and find a slave who is willing to trust and respect that person".

Edited to Add : (And then I can give myself a little pat on the back and say "Look how I made this person my slave by simply being the awesome person that I am" )

Edited Again to Add : I also wanted to mention that the values that bring respect and trust so its irrelevant to really try and name any as a standard. A lot of people enjoy my company, but I am sure quite a few think I am ass. I'm Sure Kyra has deep respect and trust for KoM, but quite a few people have differing opinions. My respect is on the descent for our new local Messiah, but I am sure he has plenty of neophytes throwing flowers in his wake.
Very well said ... that is exactly how I understood his comment, and it is how I feel about ttwd...I have only had one "Master" in my experience...and I still respect him completely

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 9/1/2007 5:19:11 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Stephann,

I am not sure if I understood your meaning or not.  If Lucky, toservz and MadRabbit's posts explain your thoughts as well, then I think we are just using different terms to explain similar concepts.  When you posted that statement I was looking at it from a perspective as being different than my dynamic, but the clarifications in this thread have shown that it is just different words to explain the same things.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Make You My Slave/Submissive - 9/1/2007 6:23:15 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Quick reply:

I understood him to mean that it is not her job to act like a slave but his job to create an environment where she becomes one internally or externally. She isn't *acting like* she is *being*. It is no longer up to her, she has become a slave, a state he created and maintains in her. 

Force plays a role in our dynamic, he will impose his will upon me. I'll use the word, it isn't a dirty word. If I could veto him and get away with it, I'd never see him as more dominant than myself. I didn't want the power or choice left in my hands.  I'm not service oriented, I have no desire to serve anyone, but I do have an internal need to be owned and managed..in a word dominated. He has created in me beliefs that are so strong related to his position in my life and rightness of same that I couldn't contemplate leaving him and there isn't anything that I wouldn't at least try to obey in order to remain his and keep the life he provides for me and my kiddo. He inspires and compels that from me but if he was a just a sit back and receive because I'm just so dominant type of guy, we'd have a real problem because my need is be owned, literally and managed on someone elses terms, that is the only thing that inspires submisison, passion, and obedience in me.

We are not all wired the same, didn't we just have a thread where it was concluded there are no "tyical submissives" so it makes sense that we all come from different centrics and have different desires.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 9/1/2007 6:32:45 AM >

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"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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