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What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 2:23:56 PM   
kittinSol


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This question derives from the Mother Theresa thread.

I am interested in hearing how submissives feel about their thought patterns. I am curious about how submission influences the decision process. I am eager to hear whether sexual submission influences intellectual decisions. Does your personal morals influence your life decision? Does your sexual status as a submissive influence your personal morals?

Are you able to split your submissive personality from your personal idea of 'good and wrong'? (I know I couldn't: some would call me 'an occasional submissive as a result', because I have a child's life to consider before my own.).

Considering this, do you think one can only be a true "slave" or "submissive" if one is without responsibility?

All in all, I'd like to hear about everything that may be thrown this way.

PS: please refer to Level's Theresa thread, and more specifically, to the discussion between SusanofO and Rule - and others.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 8/30/2007 2:44:39 PM >


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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 2:40:06 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I don't think submission has anything to do with it- at least not any more or less than any other orientation in the world.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 2:47:20 PM   
kittinSol


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Please explain, Albatross... I think people expect a certain behaviour from dominants, or submissives, or... I think we live in a world which excepts and hopes for categorizations...

PS: not that I agree with categorizations...

PPS: I am very interested to hear whether subsmissives and slaves feel they have free will.

PPPS: if anyone is interested, I do, have free will.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 8/30/2007 3:03:38 PM >


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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 2:50:52 PM   
Mercnbeth


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When it comes to matters of opinion and debate I won't speak for beth. Speaking about her, I'd say if you get on one of the subjects she has strong opinion and conviction; alternative medicine, organized religions, pharmaceutical industry, hypocrisy as examples; she can and does debate with the best of them. her knowledge, intelligence and ability to discern opinion from fact without viewing disagreement as attack are some of the reasons I enjoy having mental and emotional intercourse with her as much as the physical kind. her submission does not get in the way. her personal strength and integrity shine through the process.

If there is one way that her submission helps her and my dominance hurts me - its that she is much better at not doing this  when confronted with ignorance.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:06:38 PM   
toservez


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Mental submission for me is my natural wanting to take care of others and make them comfortable and happy before I focus on myself.

It has zero to do with my brain in how it functions intellectually. I do not even comprehend the term submitting intellectually. Part of submitting is a basic understanding and acceptance that how, when and if certain things are done may or may not be done how you would normally do them. It has nothing to do about right or wrong.

For example I have different political views then my Master. He can and will tell me to shut up when he tires of me talking on this subject but he can't make me intellectually change my views because I submit to him.

It is very simple I am like every other human being just I am in the percentage of people who needs, enjoys and wants to make the people around me happy and comfortable if at all possible. It does not compromise my morals or values and if it did then we are not talking about submitting in a healthy way.

In today’s world and with free choice you can only play at “no responsibility”. If you think you can evolve into that it is just dangerous in my minds. Look how many people who have done atrocities to people with the defense “I was just following orders”. It never flies and would not in this life.


< Message edited by toservez -- 8/30/2007 3:07:19 PM >


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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:13:26 PM   
kittinSol


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Hi toservez. What I am trying to touch on is multifold.

I have just realised that I touched upon something that is far too big for me.




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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:13:58 PM   
Politesub53


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The idea that a submissive thinks differently when in a general discussion is laughable to me. Okay i am submissive to Females, although in my case its only to the Mistress i am with, i am however, respectful towards others, Dominant or submissive. Just as i am respectful to everyone, at least intially, in real life.

When it comes to discussions or business dealing though, i am just me. I dont even consider that i am submissive, Its not possible for me to be submissive in nature, yet have dozens of people working under me. i could not function at work in that case.

On the boards i try and be courteous and treat everyone the same, submissive or Dominant. Its farcical for Rule to say he expected X answer due to Susans submissive mindset, Constantly calling Susan the sub, in my view, negated any argument Rule was trying to make. Sorry Rule but i felt you were saying " She is sub so her opinions dont count "

Having the last word isnt an attractive trait, i often am guilty of such myself. However, i would never say to anyone, " You`re only saying that because you are Dominant " as that is only trying to make someone look stupid to prove my point.

I try and prove my point on debate alone, if i cant do it without attacks on people, then my argument doesnt hold up. I am also man enough to come back and say i am wrong either in public or in private.

In the context of being in a club, then many Dominants would expect their Submissive to be honest and forthright, but never rude. 

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:16:12 PM   
bandit25


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Free will?  I'm not going back to that monster Mother Theresa thread so I may not be addressing what you are asking.  I can't believe that anyone doesn't think they have free will.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:18:58 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Please explain, Albatross... I think people expect a certain behaviour from dominants, or submissives, or... I think we live in a world which excepts and hopes for categorizations...

Yes, and it is all false and leads only to disappointment.


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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:20:15 PM   
OedipusRexIt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Free will?  I'm not going back to that monster Mother Theresa thread so I may not be addressing what you are asking.  I can't believe that anyone doesn't think they have free will.



ditto .


even not choosing is a choice.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:20:20 PM   
SusanofO


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Well, IMO, if you don't have free will, then you cannot make a decision to be submissive to a particular Dominant (note: Use of this word Dominant is in reference to males or females), and you might be running around being submissive to every person declaring themself a Dominant.

Sidenote: For anyone's record, I don't view submission or Dominance as any "gift", I view them both as personal decisions in reference to a relationship one decides to have consensually with a particular person (or if Poly, more than one person).

I think some submissives might be more prone to be what some might see as "meek" and to agreeing with more people, due to personality (or mood, or whatever), but even that might not mean they agree with all Dominants, or people in general. I think one can still be gracious when one disagrees, but IMO being a submissive (or a slave, for that matter) does not necesssarily mean a person isn't going to get all-fired-up about some issue, or fight for their beliefs.

Devotion (to me) doesn't necessarily equal unthinking adherence to ideas proposed in the world at large, or by any particular person. Hows devoted can you really be to an idea you have failed to examine?

I also think this idea of devotion is different from anyone's specific submissive-Dom relationship, where more adherence to commands is required (whether the submissive agrees, or not). Accepting a Dominant's decision, whether you agree with it or not, is the basis of a Dom-sub relationship, IMO. Which doesn't necessarily mean the Dominant (if he wants to keep a submissive content anyway) isn't wise to maybe listen if a submissive has strong feeling sabout X or Y, and take them into consideration, before making a final desicion on an issue.   

But that applies (for me) to someone's decision to devote themselves to a particular person, not every person simply declaring themselves a Dominant. Even when two people do decide to devote themselves to eachother in that context, those people are still individuals with individual feelings and thoughts (although in a Dom-sub relationship the sub has agreed to the Dominant's final word, even if he/she disagrees). 

Disagreeing with someone's ideas doesn't necessarily mean you can't still respect them as a person, IMO. It can take awhile to get to really know some people, IMO.

But if someone is so far apart from your personal belief sysem, in so many areas, that you can't fathom not arguing with them constantly (*in a way that would promote a lot of contention, rather than maybe help induce your own growth), then why be with them as your particular Dominant?

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/30/2007 4:07:33 PM >


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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:20:35 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hi toservez. What I am trying to touch on is multifold.

I have just realised that I touched upon something that is far too big for me.



Kittin, I think I understood where you were headed in the thought process that made you create this thread. And, I think I see some processes that are different between submissives and dominants but to explain what I am thinking is bigger than I am right now also. At least it would take alot of long babbling wordy sentences and paragraphs. I think there must be a more condensed way to express it all but damned if it is coming to me right now.


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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:25:03 PM   
RCdc


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My personality is different to my thought pattens.  Yes at times my submission influences my thoughts dependant on who I am with at the time and what kind of positive and constructive results may be for Darcy and myself - our relationship - but no differently than any other relationship works.
 
Personal morals influence life decisions of course.  But I do not see that as any different to everyday life.  I don;t seperate life from being submissive.  It's just what I am to Darcy.  So I dont split 'good and wrong' - because its all one big life.  I dont see why having children, dependants, family, friends, jobs etc - alters that.  My life just is - I don't have two seperate ones.
 
All s-types have responsibility - even when they transfere the authority of it.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:32:19 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

PPS: I am very interested to hear whether subsmissives and slaves feel they have free will.


kittinSol.... They last Mistress i had insisted on me using my free will. If She asked if i was okay, i was expected to answer Her truthfully. i would have been in more trouble lying just to please her, than if i had expressed my thoughts.

Getting back to your OP..... i could have guessed Rule is Dominant and SusanofO is submissive from their usernames, but it doesnt matter to me one way or the other in the context of a debate. Both made some very valid points and also points that i disagreed with. The D and s orientations didnt alter how i felt about what they had to say. In my opinion, thats how a debate should be.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:32:58 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Please explain, Albatross... I think people expect a certain behaviour from dominants, or submissives, or... I think we live in a world which excepts and hopes for categorizations...

PS: not that I agree with categorizations...

PPS: I am very interested to hear whether subsmissives and slaves feel they have free will.

PPPS: if anyone is interested, I do, have free will.


Some people have set ideas and expect a certain orientation to behave a certain way and have certain traits... sometimes they do.  But not always.  Just because you think Cher rocks doesn't make you gay.  Just like not all submissives are demur or stubborn and 'need to be broken'.  Not all dominants are alpha in all their life... some are subservient.
 
Yes s-types have free will.  Just like everyone else.  However free will is different from internal urges.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:38:42 PM   
Politesub53


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Here is a thought.... if i had a Dominant working in my charge, and they couldn`t do the job, or proved to be unreliable, then i would have to fire them. That would not make them any less Dominant and me any less submissive in nature, it would just be the natural process of an Employer/Employee relationship.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:39:12 PM   
UR2Badored


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edited to delete my entire answer
Okay, yeah way too big to wrap my head around.


< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/30/2007 3:51:44 PM >


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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:46:51 PM   
RCdc


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***I WANT POLITE COFFEE***
 

 
Peace
the.dark.

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:54:47 PM   
Politesub53


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No need to shout.... Hands the.dark some coffee

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RE: What is a submissive mind? - 8/30/2007 3:58:08 PM   
RCdc


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Ya just rock - you know that hey?
 
Peace
the.dark.

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