RE: What is it with these idiots? (Full Version)

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MisPandora -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 11:02:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

And even in consent of this act (castration) it's still considered a medical procedure. Therefoe doing it with or without consent is practicing medicine without a lincense and therefore completely illegal.



Does that not then make any form of medical play illegal?
Just pondering [:D]

Pretty much.  If you don't have a license or certification, it falls under one statute, and if you do have one, it falls under another.



Aimtoplease101 -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 11:50:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

and we can't consent to our own assult and battery so when ever we ask a dominant to do any sort of impact play, aren't we infact, asking them to do something illegal?


Actually, there are various forms of contact that technically would constitute assault and battery, unless the recipient consented. As a former rugby player, I can give you first hand examples from regular life, not to mention within the scene. Likewise, any medical procedure would be a battery if you didn't consent to the physicians' contact.

Regards, ATP



chellekitty -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 11:56:11 AM)

and many charges of sexual assult could be pressed every night at your local hole in the wall bar or pub...



Aimtoplease101 -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 11:58:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BruisedHick

Basically, we skirt the laws on a daily basis, anywhere from sex by the bay windows to consensual murder.  Some of these will be up your alley, some not.  But to call it idiocy because it is not your kink is the same as calling flogging lunacy because only crazies like pain.

If you see it as black and white, then drive 50 in a 50 zone, pay exact taxes, and report pennies you find to the police, in case someone comes a'looking.  But to break the law to some degree, but then decry someone else doing so as an idiot is kinda hypocritical, no?



But this is why the mantra in the community is "safe and consensual." Emphasis here on the safe. If you're playing with a licensed surgeon, and really, freely, knowingly want to get this done, hey, they're your balls. Outside the pale, it really is idiocy, hypocrisy or not. Sometimes things aren't black and white, but we can distinguish shades of gray.

ATP



Aimtoplease101 -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 11:59:43 AM)

And often should be.



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 12:00:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Hilarious.

That, and more than a little paranoid.




you think so there are things coming out about the wire tap program you have no idea of.. what goverment is up to with the technology as it is.. tend to wander but it all comes out in the wash anyway you look at it  



BruisedHick -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 12:10:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aimtoplease101
But this is why the mantra in the community is "safe and consensual." Emphasis here on the safe. If you're playing with a licensed surgeon, and really, freely, knowingly want to get this done, hey, they're your balls. Outside the pale, it really is idiocy, hypocrisy or not. Sometimes things aren't black and white, but we can distinguish shades of gray.


First off, the community has no "mantra."  You do, and many around you agree with it, but no one has made that our official mantra. 

Second, safe is a question of degree.  How often do surgeons forget towels inside patients?  I would sure as hell check three times to make sure I left nothing inside when I removed your balls, but you may bleed to death.

Third, if a surgeon is willing to cut off your balls for no reason other than you want him to, he is breaking some law for him to not harm a patient.  Unless he has serious cause to believe it will benefit you, in which case you may as well go to an official institution to get it done.

So idiocy to endanger yourself without professionals?  Knife play without a chef?  Diaper play without a babysitter?

Not quite sure of the broader point you make though - I agree that there are shades of gray:  I would not want to do it.  If you want to , it aint wrong.  You seem to think it is black and white:  It's idiocy, period. 

Know what your getting yourself into, for both parties, and nothing is idiocy.



Aswad -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 12:30:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

you think so there are things coming out about the wire tap program you have no idea of.. what goverment is up to with the technology as it is.. tend to wander but it all comes out in the wash anyway you look at it  


I work with this kind of thing.

You're not worth the effort and the disclosure. None of us are.



ExSteelAgain -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 1:26:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

you think so there are things coming out about the wire tap program you have no idea of.. what goverment is up to with the technology as it is.. tend to wander but it all comes out in the wash anyway you look at it  


I work with this kind of thing.

You're not worth the effort and the disclosure. None of us are.



You combine your outstanding knowlege of the psychology works of B.F. Skinner and other behavorists with work in security about wiretapping and so on? That is impressive and I wish you well with your work.



awmslave -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 1:35:07 PM)

In this regard I have a liberatarian view: everybody's body is their own property. Government rats or anybody else (incl. BDSM "safety nazis") have no business to make any decisions regarding how somebody decides to modify or use their body.




Aswad -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 2:02:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

You combine your outstanding knowlege of the psychology works of B.F. Skinner and other behavorists with work in security about wiretapping and so on? That is impressive and I wish you well with your work.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but here goes: I work in security and systems architecture / engineering. Psychiatry and cognitive sciences are a hobby that I've sunk a fair bit of time into. I do not do wiretapping, though I know people who do. I do not do surveillance, though I've been to surveillance facilities and know people who work with it.

I'm as worried as anyone else about recent development, but I'm on the sane side of paranoia. It's my job to be paranoid enough to come up with all the conceivable scenarios, then rational enough to assess the risks of each scenario, then analytical enough to break things down in terms of cost/benefit and probabilities, then economically aware enough to help the customer spend their money wisely, including finding insurance options for those scenarios that are below their cost/benefit tradeoff point.

And, quite frankly, if they tip their hand to deal with BDSM, that's a reassuring fuckup on their part. The more mundane wiretapping stuff is trivial, and not very relevant to me as a citizen of another country. If people want to find out what LatexBaby does on his spare time, it's a lot better to just buy a rubber hose, rather than work the wires.



Aswad -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 2:13:18 PM)

awmslave:

Amen.

That is generally my argument, too, the implications being both that one should be allowed to do as one wishes with any body/ies one owns, as well as that one should be allowed to lend, hire, sell or give it to someone else, along with any easements (cf. property law) one wishes to add to those already attached to it.

To ascribe the right for the state to add such easements is stateism: the worship of state.

Bad enough that we sacrifice a portion of our income on the tax altar, pray at the shrines of democracy, media and lobbying, interacting with this noncorporeal entity through a hierarchy of priest (beurocrats) living off our sacrifices, abiding by its edicts (laws), baptizing our young and pledging our allegience to it, even to the point of taking such pride in the new faith, our new godhood, that we are willing to fight and die for it.

I draw the final line at my body, my mind and my soul. Those remain mine.



chellekitty -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 3:14:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BruisedHick

First off, the community has no "mantra." 


dammit...so i can stop repeating "can't sleep clowns will eat me" at any time now?



MizzElle -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 3:38:12 PM)

I got an email asking for just that and I think I responded with something along the lines of...HELL NO! I mean, no matter what I was into, I would never do something that could potentially kill someone, mame them, or put myself in legal danger. Just not going to happen.
I really think these guys are looking for jerk-off material, or have some mental illness.



missturbation -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 4:01:17 PM)

A lot of the things we do have legal implications if you yhink about it!!
 
I certainly would not want to be involved in someones castration BUT if others choose this path then that is their perogative.
 
Unfortunately this thread to me is just another one of those my kink is ok but yours is not threads. What happened to tolerance and attempting not to judge others?
 
 



Aswad -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 4:25:50 PM)

missturbation,

As with vanilla society, the BDSM community is divided between tolerance and intolerance, with (again as vanilla society) most coming down firmly on the side of "whatever I do is okay, but whatever I don't like is horrible". Personally, I couldn't care less if people want their genitaliae chopped off and stuck down their windpipe with some superglue to go, as long as that's what they've given informed consent to. I wouldn't care to watch, but that's a different matter. Most don't seem to share that outlook, which is their right, it just seems hypocritical.



missturbation -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 4:30:39 PM)

I have a rat up my ass (not literally) about intolerance and judgement of others kinks at the moment [:@]
I'll get over it lol. Ive sat on not responding to this thread for a couple of days now to make sure i really did mean what i said and that i wasnt off the cuff ranting -  and i wasn't [:D]



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 4:37:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

You combine your outstanding knowlege of the psychology works of B.F. Skinner and other behavorists with work in security about wiretapping and so on? That is impressive and I wish you well with your work.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but here goes: I work in security and systems architecture / engineering. Psychiatry and cognitive sciences are a hobby that I've sunk a fair bit of time into. I do not do wiretapping, though I know people who do. I do not do surveillance, though I've been to surveillance facilities and know people who work with it.

I'm as worried as anyone else about recent development, but I'm on the sane side of paranoia. It's my job to be paranoid enough to come up with all the conceivable scenarios, then rational enough to assess the risks of each scenario, then analytical enough to break things down in terms of cost/benefit and probabilities, then economically aware enough to help the customer spend their money wisely, including finding insurance options for those scenarios that are below their cost/benefit tradeoff point.

And, quite frankly, if they tip their hand to deal with BDSM, that's a reassuring fuckup on their part. The more mundane wiretapping stuff is trivial, and not very relevant to me as a citizen of another country. If people want to find out what LatexBaby does on his spare time, it's a lot better to just buy a rubber hose, rather than work the wires.



well let me see where should i start or should not start. i doubt you no little about what our gov does. there are kinds of black projects and things no one knows to assume any thing is not being done is being blind.. i am not here to spook anyone . You right who would want to bother someone who is in this lifestyle but oh wait i forgot. you know all about the cia nsa and all the other agencies that we have. NOT



Aswad -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 5:14:48 PM)

I have a pretty good idea, LatexBaby. I'm neither blind, nor stupid. It used to be a major field of interest for me, and I know people who have done work with the relevant agencies, although my main interest has been their activities abroad. It's not a pretty picture, but you've strayed pretty far into paranoia-land.

Could you perhaps offer some plausible rationale for revealing valuable information about the operation of a multi-billion-dollar surveillance infrastructure to the general public in order to shut down BDSM? An election year doesn't cut it. That's all about being seen as doing something, not about actually doing anything. And one can make a lot of show without even touching the infrastructure. Besides which it would detract from the useful work.



BeachMystress -> RE: What is it with these idiots? (9/2/2007 5:29:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

As usual Aswad-san lazered in on it. One can always get a de-nutting pliers and sheep rings and snap a band around their nuts and give them control of their destiny after that.

Ron 

You can buy an elastrator from a farm company like http://www.livestockconcepts.com/Elastrator%20Tool.html for about $10 or from a fetish store like http://www.extremerestraints.com/heavy-duty-nipple-enlarger-kit_640.html for $35. They do work well on nipples, which is the only thing I use my set for.. even though it takes time for them to damage the connection to the testicle I'm not willing to risk any damage to my husband.

You can visit http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Elastrator to see what an elastrator does to the human body when used on testicles. Warning.. the images are for those with a strong stomach ONLY.



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