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RE: How important is protocol? - 9/3/2007 7:16:50 PM

Missokyst

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Joined: 9/9/2006
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No, because as I said before, for me people are people. It wouldn't matter to me if physical pleasure was withheld. If someone has inspired that submissive factor within me it doesn't go away. Not everyone inspires that submissive factor from me. And a few of them who did were not men I played with. They just happened to have that confidence that let me know they were secure about who they were and didn't need reinforcement.
That DOES make me wet. LOL every one has their kink, ya know?
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Do you distinguish between pleasure dynamics and power dynamics in submitting, then?

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

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Post #: 61

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/3/2007 7:19:26 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
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he's merely Daddy (or Sir) and i'm daughter (or babygirl) - no other protocols are necessary in this relationship. we're not into that rigid formality

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Post #: 62

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/3/2007 7:20:00 PM

servantheart

Posts: 960
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Some submissives have shared with me the view that protocols help reinforce a mindset of obedience, drawing in the process a distinction between that and "feeling submissive" (the latter being something that is innate and not manufactured by protocol, ritual, or any other external entity).

Yes, Sir. Protocols do reinforce obedience. Personally, I do "feel" more submissive when adhering to them. They are a comfort to me in that they are little things that help me to feel my slavery more acutely. That being said, submissiveness in and of itself is an innate characteristic. Feeling my submission to You is like icing on the cake.

_____________________________

When you really trust someone, you have to be okay with not understanding some things.
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Post #: 63

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/3/2007 7:27:27 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

We might be talking across each other here. "Pleasure" in the context of what I was asking need not be physical, or sexual.

I was keying in on your statement that you when you submit to someone, your desire is to please, and obedience as such just isn't a concern. That focus on "pleasing" (physical or otherwise) is to what I refer when I mention "pleasure dynamics".

It has been my experience that some submissives conceptualize pleasing their dominant in terms of obedience to his rule--and not necessarily newcomers to the lifestyle, either. Focusing on obedience in this fashion I would term a "power dynamic".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

No, because as I said before, for me people are people. It wouldn't matter to me if physical pleasure was withheld. If someone has inspired that submissive factor within me it doesn't go away. Not everyone inspires that submissive factor from me. And a few of them who did were not men I played with. They just happened to have that confidence that let me know they were secure about who they were and didn't need reinforcement.
That DOES make me wet. LOL every one has their kink, ya know?
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Do you distinguish between pleasure dynamics and power dynamics in submitting, then?

_____________________________

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Post #: 64

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/3/2007 10:57:52 PM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
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I love protocol and ritual. "Yes, Sir" and "Yes, Ma'am" are simply polite ways of addressing other people. Being polite is never truly out of place, though some people reject it anyway. If someone doesn't like that kind of politeness, out of politeness, I will address them differently.

I think anything that enhances the D/s dynamic is, for me, a special gift I receive. When I am serving Dominants, they are always served before any submissives. That's a particular protocol I find appropriate in a D/s situation. Not all situations are D/s but I still work to ensure that Dominants are given the first servings, best pieces of food, nicest tableware, etc. It's my own personal way to show my submission within my particular kink. It's a protocol that I enjoy.

Just my thoughts.......

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

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Post #: 65

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/3/2007 11:28:08 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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You apply that rule to all dominants and submissives? Not merely "your" dominant?

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Post #: 66

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/3/2007 11:31:35 PM

iammachine

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Joined: 1/25/2006
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tl;dr entire thread.

But in regards to the OP:

I personally don't give a damn. If protocol is important to someone else, they are welcome to it, and I will respect that (though _insert entity of choice here_ help you if you call me Ma'am or Mistress without asking if it's okay, because I dislike both when applied to myself). Aside from generally being polite, however, I am unlikely to toss out honorifics unless they have been specifically negotiated or I feel they are otherwise called for. As stated above, I don't care for honorifics being applied to me, though I don't mind "Goddess" or "Miss" if honorifics are important to someone I'm talking to.

Sir, Miss or Ma'am I don't mind, as that's mostly just polite. If Master Hoo-ha puffs up and tells me that I need to address him as Master, I will tend to just kind of look at him as ask "Is that your protocol in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" (ditto for Mistress High-n-Mighty). Alternatively, however, if it's a part of a title, I'm a little more comfortable, as it's just kind of rattling off a part of a name. *shrug*

I guess by and large it's a matter of context for me.

< Message edited by iammachine -- 9/3/2007 11:35:13 PM >

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Post #: 67

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 9:27:01 AM

Elegant

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Joined: 3/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Master and i don't have any, He prefers it that way. Perhaps someday we'll have little rituals that we do at bedtime or what have you. I think that would be very nice.

Protocol and ritual are two different things.

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

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Post #: 68

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 9:29:08 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Master and i don't have any, He prefers it that way. Perhaps someday we'll have little rituals that we do at bedtime or what have you. I think that would be very nice.

A question just popped into my mind....why don't you have little rituals as you describe?

In other words...why wait for "someday"?

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Post #: 69

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 9:33:12 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Hi

Protocol can be nice, but it can also be inpractical. i try to follow protocol when it is required and sometimes in our relationship it is. And it can be very nice then. But for everyday life we do not use it much.

Mai i wish you well

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Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

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Post #: 70

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:28:19 AM

submittous

Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
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I started off in M/s thinking that protocols, especially "high" protocols were at best pretentious and at worst silly. After a few decades working at 24/7 tpe as a lifestyle I have slowly evolved a different view.

I now see structured protocols as another tool usable in creating the environment for M/s to prosper. In many cases it has become a backbone that holds a relationship together in hard times. Protocol is NOT a replacement for relationship skills, a good communications system or honesty, loyalty and integrity but protocols have occasionally been very helpful to me.

M/s is so unique and individual that I think it is very hard to speak to anyone else's needs but our own, so please don't take anything I say on this as a criticism.

Bill

_____________________________

"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving

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Post #: 71

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:29:45 AM

MiladyElaine

Posts: 1086
Joined: 10/10/2004
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I use protocols because I like things done certain ways. I like to be called "Milady" all the time except in public. My given name sounds irreverent to My ears unless its from a female friend or boss.

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Milady

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Post #: 72

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:34:43 AM

RRafe

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Joined: 8/29/2007
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Protocols are needless, in the face of cooperation.

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Post #: 73

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:41:48 AM

ocilla

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Joined: 6/12/2007
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There is a thread in the Mistress area on arguments and there seemed to be a general agreement that well thought out and practiced protocols may have averted the incendent. Tammyjo's responses were particularly enlightening in that the protocols she refered too seemed quite specific to providing guidelines in what if situations. If I understood correctly. I think it is a very good idea. And I also like the idea of certain daily, weekly or other timelined rituals to reinforce the D/s dynamic. But I believe rituals or traditions are a positive part of any relationship in any event....
How the protocols get developed, put in place and reinforced is another story. I would love to hear how some folks do this. I imagine there are many different styles and methods.

< Message edited by ocilla -- 9/4/2007 10:45:25 AM >

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Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

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Post #: 74

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:43:17 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

As I asked feastie...how then do you express your submissiveness?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Pretty nonexistant here. But we're parents and obviously I'm not going to go about the house naked but for cuffs and collar calling him Grand Master Lord Pooh Bah while also checking backpacks and such.

More importantly, the more you put things in place that inhibit open communication, the more chance there is for things to fester. And as I have trouble with confrontation to begin with, making me do so sweet and soft spoken would mean that I wouldn't ever be able to bring a problem up. And as I said, stifling the communication leads to one of those days where the woman says "fuck you and the horse you rode in on" while the man is left wondering why this is coming out of the blue.

Ask anybody who's been in the military and they'll tell you that they can say Yes Sir while thinking 'what a jackass'. I follow where he leads, I strive to make this the best relationship I can for us both to flourish in. We're into the spirit of the relationship, not the outer trappings.

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Post #: 75

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:48:47 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous
I now see structured protocols as another tool usable in creating the environment for M/s to prosper. In many cases it has become a backbone that holds a relationship together in hard times. Protocol is NOT a replacement for relationship skills, a good communications system or honesty, loyalty and integrity but protocols have occasionally been very helpful to me.

Makes sense. As KoM pointed out, constructive protocols can help foster communication.

Case in point: One of the rules I have for My slave is that she is to tell me ASAP when she is not feeling well. Often, there's little I can do but be sympathetic (that healing touch thing just doesn't work like it should!), but at least I know her state of being--and can adjust my expectations accordingly. Also, the rule helps keep her from bottling negative energies up inside; it is one way to ensure that what needs to be discussed in fact gets discussed.

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 9/4/2007 11:12:29 AM >

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Post #: 76

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:53:59 AM

ocilla

Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
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I have heard of one tradition between a Domme and sub that consists of a weekly outing for beer where the dynamic is put on hold and any issues the sub has are to be aired. At first the sub said it was difficult but with reassurance, security and maturity from the Domme he was able to open up and express potentially critical issues. She did not always like what she heard and sometimes he said they would have 3 or 4 beer discussions, but that it always helped. Wish I could remember where I read or heard about that.

_____________________________

Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

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Post #: 77

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 10:58:17 AM

twistedkytten

Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
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I had to look the two up for myself -
Protocol -
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French prothocole, from Medieval Latin protocollum, from Late Greek prOtokollon first sheet of a papyrus roll bearing date of manufacture, from Greek prOt- prot- + kollan to glue together, from kolla glue; perhaps akin to Middle Dutch helen to glue
1 : an original draft, minute, or record of a document or transaction
2 a : a preliminary memorandum often formulated and signed by diplomatic negotiators as a basis for a final convention or treaty b : the records or minutes of a diplomatic conference or congress that show officially the agreements arrived at by the negotiators
3 a : a code prescribing strict adherence to correct etiquette and precedence (as in diplomatic exchange and in the military services) <a breach of protocol> b : a set of conventions governing the treatment and especially the formatting of data in an electronic communications system <network protocols> c : CONVENTION 3a,b
4 : a detailed plan of a scientific or medical experiment, treatment, or procedure

Main Entry: 2ritual
Function: noun
1 : the established form for a ceremony; specifically : the order of words prescribed for a religious ceremony
2 a : ritual observance; specifically : a system of rites b : a ceremonial act or action c : an act or series of acts regularly repeated in a set precise manner.

For us, there are rituals observed, because He enjoys them I enjoy doing them for Him... I refer to Him as Master because that is naturally what comes out of my mouth would I do so in a public setting? yes I have been known to do so...

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 78

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 11:00:52 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

What role does protocol play in furthering a Dominant/submissive dynamic?

I only read through the first page of responses, so forgive me if this has been said elsewhere.

Establishing stability, boundaries, and the differing areas of authority are the first three that pop into my head.

I have to journal on two specific areas of life and in a certain manner (hand-written) every day and within a limited time/space frame. That's one of the protocols in place. Every time I pick up that pen, I am serving his desire and filling my obligation and everytime I pick up that pen and begin to write, the fact of the dynamic we share is brought home. I am probably the last person who needs to be reminded of my place in our relationship, yet that place stares at me every day from a blank page whether I need reminding of it or not and I love that it does so.

Training, I do see separately and it doesn't 'hit' me in the submissive bone when I, for example, make coffee for him. He trained me on how to make his coffee, that's the way I make it. I'm pleased and blessed to be allowed to do such for him, but it doesn't slap me in the face that I'm doing it simply because I'm his. I'd make coffee for anyone to their preference. Don't like cream? No problem. Want some extra sugar? You got it. In other words, I'd do it anyway. I wouldn't do my journal in the way I do without his command for me to do it, however. That's 'his' will which I follow only because I am his.

quote:

What is the importance to the relationship that the submissive/slave say "Sir," "Master," "My Lord," (or the feminine equivalants) when addressing the dominant?

Honorifics are spoken from me to him as a sign of my respect for him and his place above me. Other terms are spoken from me to him as a sign of my love and affection for him. Still others are spoken to ensure he knows that sometimes, when he's being particulary sadist, I think he's a Fucking Blackhearted Bastard (note the caps!) ... always said with the utmost respect and affection, of course.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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Post #: 79

RE: How important is protocol? - 9/4/2007 11:02:24 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
Ask anybody who's been in the military and they'll tell you that they can say Yes Sir while thinking 'what a jackass'.

Oh, believe me, we can think MUCH worse things! (4 years USMC)

(you learn to keep the "fuck you, Sir" silent until after said officer leaves the general vicinity!)

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Post #: 80

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