How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ?

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How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 2:37:57 PM

itseeks

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I work at a well known department store where i was promised a full time position with benefits.After working for a period of 12 40 hour weeks i had my hours cut to 32 . Now iam told that there is a hire and promotion freeze.Strange enough they hired a lot of mexicans who work at night and receive very little pay.Across from my house is a sawmill where a lot of mexicans are working now as well .(many without a greencard).I am not against people who come here to work and make a living if they do it the legal way but it burns me up if they do it illegaly and make it hard for others to make a living.

Post #: 1

RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 2:46:09 PM

Celeste43

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Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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Eat any food grown here lately? Chances are that a migrant laborer picked it.

There are lots of jobs that Americans don't want, like spending 12 hours a day during harvest season climbing ladders and picking apples. Or bent over picking broccoli. Or shoveling horse manure. Teen age girls aren't allowed on race tracks and they're the only ones I know who will shovel shit willingly.

Apples are the top agricultural crops around here and the farmers can't find pickers. It isn't like a hundred years ago where schools closed during harvest season. Horse riding farms are also important to local economy. Horses need a lot of care, stalls need cleaning daily. Watering and feeding takes quite a lot of time. It's unskilled labor and pays poorly, you want to do it? Most show barns I know have at least one immigrant traveling with the horses. You want a job that is filthy and smelly and requires being away from home half the week for poor wages? Neither does anyone else I know.

(in reply to itseeks)

Post #: 2

RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 2:53:08 PM

SirHedonicsslave

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Joined: 1/6/2006
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I have to agree with you. I think it's ridiculous. If someone wants to come here and work and live...fine...do it the right way. I did some research a while back on what it takes to immigrate to Mexico....omg....a person who is retired has to earn a large amount of money in order to go there....and there are a LOT of hoops to jump through.... you aren't even allowed to talk about Mexican politics or you can be deported. If you're down there illegally......ANY citizen of Mexico can detain you and call the police to have you deported.....you have no rights basically.
I'm really beginning to think that the government needs to look at the country the person is coming from and base our immigration laws on their laws......

(in reply to itseeks)

Post #: 3

RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 2:57:24 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: itseeks

I work at a well known department store where i was promised a full time position with benefits.After working for a period of 12 40 hour weeks i had my hours cut to 32 . Now iam told that there is a hire and promotion freeze.Strange enough they hired a lot of mexicans who work at night and receive very little pay.Across from my house is a sawmill where a lot of mexicans are working now as well .(many without a greencard).I am not against people who come here to work and make a living if they do it the legal way but it burns me up if they do it illegaly and make it hard for others to make a living.

Sounds like you need to call the Police.

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 3:06:03 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Eat any food grown here lately? Chances are that a migrant laborer picked it.

There are lots of jobs that Americans don't want, like spending 12 hours a day during harvest season climbing ladders and picking apples. Or bent over picking broccoli. Or shoveling horse manure. Teen age girls aren't allowed on race tracks and they're the only ones I know who will shovel shit willingly.

Apples are the top agricultural crops around here and the farmers can't find pickers. It isn't like a hundred years ago where schools closed during harvest season. Horse riding farms are also important to local economy. Horses need a lot of care, stalls need cleaning daily. Watering and feeding takes quite a lot of time. It's unskilled labor and pays poorly, you want to do it? Most show barns I know have at least one immigrant traveling with the horses. You want a job that is filthy and smelly and requires being away from home half the week for poor wages? Neither does anyone else I know.

Celeste, there's plenty of pickers out here, just not at $10 per hour.
Whatever happened to good old fashioned *Capitalism* in this country where , if you can't get workers at a certain rate of pay they *raise* that rate until they can.
Oh, and the growers and govt are "worried" about the "consumer" too!
Like they're going to "pass the savings along to the consumer."
YEAH, RIGHT!
I don't care if tomatos go up to $5 per pound as long as there's Americans picking them.

If they can afford HORSES they can afford to pay $20-$25 per hour. Greedy bastards!
I go to a fruit and vegetable stand here that uses "All American Labor" to grow and pick their produce.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/3/2007 3:08:56 PM >

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 3:49:03 PM

masterandmeat

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Joined: 3/31/2007
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there is nothing wrong with legal migrant works picking the crops. They come they pick they leave Most farmers are now having problems finding pickers because they have moved into other jobs. lets talk about the construction industry for example they come and take away employment from Americans Boys and Girls we have been invaded even in some of the most remote part of this country you will find ilegals I was in the most back woods town not to long ago there were even mexicans there 20 to a house 10 to car This country needs to first close the border then second enforce the laws that are on the books like fining employers for hireing a ilegal workers 10 k per employee

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 6

RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 3:56:46 PM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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Meat, they need to put them in prison for 3-5 years.
And, we need to start ostracising people and companies who hire them.
Maybe spraypaint their houses so everyone knows who they are.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 5:06:46 PM

itseeks

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Joined: 3/26/2007
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I agree with you popeye make every one know who they are maybe make there wear a sign "I am unamerican I take food from your kids mouths"

(in reply to popeye1250)

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 5:16:33 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Meat, they need to put them in prison for 3-5 years.
And, we need to start ostracising people and companies who hire them.
Maybe spraypaint their houses so everyone knows who they are.

Wow...What a great idea....Punish illegals making the minimum wage or less...By incarcerating them at the cost of at least $35,000 a year passed on to the citizens of this country...That's using the old noodle!

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 5:18:41 PM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Meat, they need to put them in prison for 3-5 years.
And, we need to start ostracising people and companies who hire them.
Maybe spraypaint their houses so everyone knows who they are.

popeye:
Do I understand you correctly...you are in favor of vandalism?...you run off at the mouth a lot about how illegal immigrants are criminals yet here you are inciting criminal behaviour...do you just open your mouth to change feet?
thompson

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 10

RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 5:24:10 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Wow. Let's call the INS to take the migrant workers away and we can whine later when there are no crops to eat. It's doubtful anyone else is gonna step in and do the picking. I worked with migrant workers years ago, in an ESL program. The migrants whom I had exposure to were hard working and just hoping to give their families a better life. A little bit of nothing in this country was much better than anything they had in theirs. And yes, they had their green cards, lived in migrant camps and moved all over the country, I don't think they had a super wonderful life.

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 5:27:00 PM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: masterandmeat

there is nothing wrong with legal migrant works picking the crops. They come they pick they leave Most farmers are now having problems finding pickers because they have moved into other jobs. lets talk about the construction industry for example they come and take away employment from Americans Boys and Girls we have been invaded even in some of the most remote part of this country you will find ilegals I was in the most back woods town not to long ago there were even mexicans there 20 to a house 10 to car
How did you find out that these "Mexicans" were illegal? If you knew they were illegal why did you not report them to the authorities?
One would think that with the fuel shortage that you might be in favor of car pooling.
Twenty to a house....sounds to me like you are not in favor of family values...ya know like the extended family working together for the betterment of the family.
Are you sure you are not just a bigot masquerading as a law and order guy?

This country needs to first close the border then second enforce the laws that are on the books like fining employers for hireing a ilegal workers 10 k per employee
Why not use the asset forfeiture laws and seize their homes, bank accounts business and other assets like we do with drug dealers.

(in reply to masterandmeat)

Post #: 12

RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 5:35:07 PM

jaymckenas

Posts: 146
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

econemy ?

*Economy

quote:

illegaly

*Illegally

I'm not even going to go over the rest of the grammar issues that are spread throughout the OP's arguments. Please master the english language before attacking those whom you claim are "Aliens" and "Unamerican". Unless being unable to use proper grammar and unable to edit a message before posting to a forum are American ideals, then please be more careful/concise with your wording and punctuation.

Popeye, while I respect your perspective, vandalizing the homes of alleged "illegal aliens" would A) Violate their rights, considering nothing is proven... B) Earn you some jail time or at least a mark on your record, and C) Be an absolutely bigoted and horrendous thing to do...

To the OP--- Making them wear signs that say "I am unamerican I take food from your kids mouths" ... are you serious? Well then while we are at it perhaps we should make everyone wear a sign that describes their undesirable side. Yours might include how you often discriminate against others for their heritage. You offer no examples of why you accuse these individuals of being "Illegals" other than to say they are Mexican... So all Mexicans are illegal Aliens?

D.G. is right. If we are going to punish the illegals via incarceration, the trickle down to the tax payers ultimately punishes ourselves and thereby hurts the economy. So your own logic is flawed, considering your argument would be even MORE detrimental to the economy than just allowing the "Illegals" whom your only real proof of illegality is a personal view that any minority that takes your job is, in fact, and Illegal.

Not to mention, if you are in a job market that has the opportunity to lose your job to illegal immigrants, then you should probably become a bit more competitive, perhaps make a more noticeable effort towards punctuation, grammar, etc.

I don't mean to sound caustic and biting, but the initial post is laced with discrimination and bigotry and has drawn a lot of passion from me with it's words.

I respect your opinions, but please have an actual case/argument when you pose them.

Don't just say that Mexicans are illegals just because they replaced you at your job...

-Jayson

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 6:09:46 PM

defiantbadgirl

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Joined: 11/14/2005
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Illegal immigration is definitely a problem, but so is outsourcing. The combination of both at the same time is what's hurting the US economy.

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 6:22:27 PM

cyberdude611

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Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

Simple solution... Deport them.

There is a process in place for people outside America to come here legally. If they break the law, arrest them and throw them out. It really is that simple. And this is what the law says right now. You enter this country illegally, you are committing a crime.

(in reply to jaymckenas)

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 6:32:58 PM

Petronius

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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To answer the simple economic question in the O.P.: "How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy?"

They benefit the economy based on the plain-vanilla fact that they produce more than they consume. That is normally a touchstone in this type of economic analysis.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the econemy ? - 9/3/2007 8:32:21 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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Most of the money goes out of country to feed their family. Yes there are people willing to pick crops, just not at the wages and conditions that are existent today. Some of my family use to be seasonal pickers, traveling in a camper from north to south, moving to where there was work. It is not just the work that takes money from legal citizens (and I include immigrants that have come here legally), it is services and crime as well. Beside me right now is three families from Mexico, all here legally. The one that owns the house that came here 20 years ago, puts up the money for others to start a business, he gets the loan paid back, plus 10% of the profits for the life of the company. He also provides housing for them, and the place stays well kept. All of them are learning English, because it is a requirement of their "sponsor". At his home he flies the US flag and just below it the Mexican one. He has no sympathy for those here illegally and says that they are just taking the easy way out.

Our borders need to be secured for many reasons, and not just immigration. You have to wonder why many of the politicians on both sides of the aisle are not actually doing anything about it.

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the economy ? - 9/4/2007 3:34:52 AM

Satyr6406

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From: New Brunswick, N.J.
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As I have said, many times, before I live in a primarily Central/South American immigrant community. I would estimate that the majority of my neighbors are here, legally but I am quite sure that the chasm between illegal and legal immigrants is not that wide.

I am involved in helping these people to assimilate into our society. Unfortunately, on the whole, they have no desire to assimilate past learning just enough to scam the system.

I had grandparents that were immigrants from Germany, Italy, and Ireland. While my ancestors from Ireland didn't have a "language" barrier to worry about, they had other factors that hurt them in their attempts to become part of their new homeland.

My German and Italian grandparents had to contend with learning a new language among all the other things but, they did that and they worked hard and they embraced their new homeland and set about to become a part of it and to help it prosper.

What I have seen from the "Latino" community is an attitude that appears to resemble: "So what if we violated your laws and came here, illegally. We are here and you have to "tolerate" (that's pronounced: "kiss our ass" for those of you in Poughkeepsie) us. You HAVE to learn our language and conduct government business in our language. We will NOT teach our children your language so you MUST have bi-lingual education in your schools which the population at large will pay for since we can't declare our earnings. You HAVE to provide translation services free of charge, when we have to go to court. You HAVE to change your way of life to accommodate us and that's just the way it is.

I have a hard time mustering a whole lot of sympathy for the way the system treats a group of people who, on the whole, berate and denigrate the system and the country that seems to be willing to kiss their collective ass with regards to making their transition into our society as painless as possible.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by Satyr6406 -- 9/4/2007 3:35:51 AM >

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Peace and comfort,

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the economy ? - 9/4/2007 5:12:53 AM

itseeks

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Joined: 3/26/2007
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So if i fix my grammar and have no more typos i will have the right to break the law?

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RE: How do illegal Aliens effect the economy ? - 9/4/2007 8:14:08 AM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: itseeks

So if i fix my grammar and have no more typos i will have the right to break the law?

No but your resume will look a tad bit more professional and you might be able to land a job that will not have competition from illegal immigrants.

That being said....How can anyone argue that they would not do the same? I live in Mexico...I'm poor I have a family. By crossing the border into the U.S. I am now able to find work with higher compensation than that available at home. Our government doesn't seem to care....The companies hiring these people don't seem to care and appear to be under little threat of prosecution.

But most people seem to be threatened by the illegals themselves than all the other players responsible that would allow them to be here in the first place. I will never begrudge anyone a higher wage...If I lived in Mexico and I was unskilled and poor I would be working here.

Sincerely

Domihombre

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