RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom

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RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/4/2007 10:52:17 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

FR

are you a good witch or a bad witch?

i have seen good, well respected Dominants out there that would tell you to go take a flying leap off a tall building if you tried to tell them your problems...its not that they don't care that you have problems...its just that they that...your problems...and if you were a close friend they may or may not be willing to listen...depending on their mood and what else is going on and where your problems rank in the importance of things going on in their life, after all they are not your therapist...if they were, you would pay them and they would be happy to sit and listen for as long as you were paying them (ahhh capitalism...)

so, that being said...i am gonna have to go with thud baby on this...good vs bad (whether it be D-type or s-type --saving my fingers here-- or switch or vanilla or flying purple people eater) to me would be based on core values - honor, integrity, credibility...

*skips off to go pick flowers from a field of wild flowers eerrrr walk in the dark dreary back streets of sub-urban upper middle class san antonio...in the rain...while its thundering....ok so i am really just gonna go smoke a cig on the porch...but the other things sounded much more dramatic, and i am allllll about the drama...that was sarcasm by the way*

chelle

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 21

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/4/2007 11:17:20 PM

Perplex

Posts: 110
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I would argue that "good" dominants are more aware of the submissive/bottom's emotional and mental states. They are more cognizant of the consequences of their exercises of power.

I would also argue that to go farther than that ventures into the arena of personal style and personal kink. A dominant might be highly aware of what he's doing to a submissive, and still be a cold-hearted bastard about it--and for some submissive's that's exactly what is desired.

ouch. Let's really stress those defintions til they scream. Empathy is not inherently a cute n fuzzy word, it means being able to sense another's non-traditional communication (verbal physical etc) so by your defintion of "cognizant of consquences" (which sounds like a game show I'd want to play) that is empathy, even if the dom doesn't give a rats ass one way or the other.

READY SET GO, to your websters people!

site an example, an orderly knows Mrs. P is goin' puke, he knows if he doesn't get her a basin he will be changing her sheets, he brings her a basin, that MRs. P. takes as an act of kindness <empathy> since now she doesn't ahve to see today's lunch on her tidy whities, but the orderly only cared he would have work if he didn't get the basin.

and yes, why yes I do sometime next week be on page 27 hashing this out :)

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 22

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 6:08:24 AM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

Empathy?

Just 'cause I can intuit what would make dude feel better doesn't mean I care or I'm going to use my powers for good, right?

There are crappy people who are talented as Dominants. And submissives. I know that's going to raise hackles among people who want to start defining Dominant with adjectives like "caring" before "focused, inspiring, strong, demanding" and such things come down the pike. I think the idea of "No REAL Dominant would act that way" and conflating Dominance and All Things Just and Good actually lowers people's attention to "is this person a dick?" factor.

How do you tell the bad from the good?

Use the bullshit detectors and defense mechanisms you use with anyone else.

(in reply to Perplex)

Post #: 23

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 6:44:45 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

fast reply

Empathy is not really the core to a good Dom. Con artists use it for exploitation-so try again.

< Message edited by RRafe -- 9/5/2007 6:45:34 AM >

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

Post #: 24

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 6:56:20 AM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Somebody who can truly separate what you need from what you want, and can make you desire doing that more than just what you want - because they want that for you, and want you to do it for them (if that makes any sense).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/5/2007 6:59:58 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 25

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 7:04:11 AM

e01n

Posts: 1472
Status: offline

I don't think it's so much empathy that makes a good dominant... I'd say it's more about having sensitivity. They can see and know and understand (in the sense of supporting - "stand under")...

Does this force them to act on it in a way that makes you feel warm and fuzzy? But they should be observing what is going on in a holistic manner - not just the action-reaction dynamic. As Dr. Leary said, it's dose, set AND setting.

Let us not forget: subspace is an altered state of consciousness...

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 26

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 8:27:41 AM

witchywoman313

Posts: 48
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

A good Dom knows when enough is enough, A good Dom lets the Sub choose to submit, A good Dom takes no for an Answer (at least while they get to the bottom of why, or until they have established safewords). A good Dom inspires a desire to be lead/to submit/to serve. A good Dom desires feedback. A good Dom doesnt consider checking on their sub, breaking the mood. (I half expect a dozen critisisums on this last, but I find it makes me even more able to let go and space out when they get back into hard play.) A good Dom knows that a little consentual pushing of limits is not the same as calously disregarding bonderies.

To put it another way: Most BDSM play involves some risk phyisicaly or emotionaly or both to the submissive. The way I play (when I"m bottoming) I very often am quite litteraly trusting my Dom with my life. So to me a good Dom is one who is worthy of the trust invoved when I hand over control. Subspace is a wonderful place to be but it does tend to make one a bit volnerable beeing all chained up, with a knife beeing held to your throat. There are self named Doms/Masters and Mistresses I know who I wouldnt even dream of submitting for, who may be quite good for others. Then there are some that I would feel bad for anyone or anything in their care. The ones I call Assholes in Dom clothes. Its sometimes easier to say what makes a bad Dom then a good Dom. I guess the easiest way to say it is that a good Dom actualy gives a shit about their sub. Is actualy tuned in to their sub enough to make sure that things are going right for them at least for the duration of time that the sub is in their care, and makes sure that when playtime is over the sub has had a chance to regain at least a bit of equalibrium before they are turned loose. The very minumum I'd be willing to accept as a sub or Top as aftercare.

I find that most Doms that are respected in Live BDSM comunities at least have a general respect for safewords, negotiate scenes (especialy when playing with strangers) and make sure that submissives are cared for after a scene (at the bare minimum they make sure you can still walk, give you a glass of watter and hand you into the care of your friends) And a bidding war on a Dom that involves lots of diffent submissives bidding on them? I would find that as at Least a good sign that they are probably trustworthy and have a desirable style (always subjective of course), assuming the group of people know each other well enough to be useing more then first impressions as a basis for bidding.

To the OP
Good luck and have fun experimenting with BDSM, just a warning its a bit addictive and a hell of a lot of fun when done safetly. Trust your instincts.

Witchywoman313

(in reply to e01n)

Post #: 27

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 8:31:58 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Il Brutto, Il Cattivo, Il Bueno----

hyenas laugh-----------------fade out.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to witchywoman313)

Post #: 28

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 8:32:08 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I think empathy is perhaps the best separator of good verses bad people in the scene as I have ever heard. Some people can only project their own motions/reactions/motivations onto others, one must be able to empathize in order to step outside yourself and "see" others for who they are and who they think they are.

One can have empathy and not act on it. I can empathize with a drama queen who is sleeping around for love and pronouncing her last partner as the spawn of the devil and the current one the bringer of light although I doubt she would like my vision of her. In my case I would avoid her and her current partner and have some sympathy for her ex partners although I would note that they chose to get involved with her.

One must empathize with newbies and know which ones need a hand holding, which ones need space from which to observe. Who needs a hug or a compliment, etc.

One of the things that turned me off to flogging when I first entered the scene is that I noticed how little connection most people doing the flogging had with their targets.

However, as for auctions, they are funny. I am a "respected" dominant in my local scene and yet I went for more as a bottom than as a top although from my understanding that is a common occurrence. I did go for good money as a dominant though, just want to put that out there...lol!

(in reply to e01n)

Post #: 29

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 9:00:33 AM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: e01n

As Dr. Leary said, it's dose, set AND setting.

Let us not forget: subspace is an altered state of consciousness...

This made me laugh, and agree. Very cool.

(in reply to e01n)

Post #: 30

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 9:36:46 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

i am also a firm believer that there is someone out there for everyone...so for that asshole dom there is some shallow bitchy sub and they can be misserable together in an illusion of perfection and leave the rest of us alone....

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

Post #: 31

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 9:36:48 AM

TotalState

Posts: 278
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline

When I saw this thread, I immediately thought it referred to a game similar to "good cop, bad cop" and was bloody aroused.

I'm kind of disappointed now.

_____________________________

Spanking with a smile, living with feeling.

(in reply to Grlwithboy)

Post #: 32

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 9:39:44 AM

TheIronOrchid

Posts: 21
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalState

When I saw this thread, I immediately thought it referred to a game similar to "good cop, bad cop" and was bloody aroused.

I'm kind of disappointed now.

Wow dude. Now you've got me thinking about it. That sounds like a really fun scene!

(in reply to TotalState)

Post #: 33

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 10:00:47 AM

e01n

Posts: 1472
Status: offline

So... TheIronOrchid... We know that your buddy TotalState was the one who was driving the car. That means that you were the one in the store with the gun. It's only a matter of time before my partner gets him to give you up... Write it down and I can get the DA to cut you a deal...

Oh, not here? Okay... <shuffles away>

(in reply to TheIronOrchid)

Post #: 34

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 10:03:14 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. So this person respects you. Their partner might think the same person is a jerk. Respect is a subjective feeling.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 35

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 3:26:02 PM

littlebitxxx

Posts: 732
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

i am also a firm believer that there is someone out there for everyone...so for that asshole dom there is some shallow bitchy sub and they can be misserable together in an illusion of perfection and leave the rest of us alone....

I agree. I don't think there really are bad Doms or bad subs...just bad relationships if the right two don't mix.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 36

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 6:46:53 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I lack empathy in a big way. I don't think that makes me a bad dom.

If you had a machine to measure empathy.... people would wonder if the machine was working since the needle woudn't even move.

I also have a huge lack of empathy. I can intellectually understand that a person will feel X do to situation Y... but emotionally... I am rather disconnected to those feelings the person is having. I suppose that is why I can look at a person's situation that is an emotional rollercoaster for them and be very objective about the whole thing. In fact... I would say not only do I lack empathy.. I can be rather heartless... particularly when I judge that their emotional rollercoaster is their own doing and they reject sound advice that would of prevented the ride. So... Compassion is not big on my strengths of character either......

In order to respond to this thread... I had a quick conversation with Alandra and Kyra... to confirm their prespective of my character in this regard.......

As a note... Alandra thinks I am more tactful with some that is signficant to me.... of course.. that is only if I am in the mood ... otherwise.. I am actually more blunt and direct that I would be to some one of lesser significance..... mmmmmmmm damn I am complicated!!!!!!

welll... I guess this makes me a horrible Dom... not just a bad one.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 37

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 6:57:00 PM

MellowSir

Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline

Easy, bad ones are inconsiderate jerks and good ones are caring people lol

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 38

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 7:32:12 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I lack empathy in a big way. I don't think that makes me a bad dom.

lack of any of the basic human qualities is being flawed.. with out those things we tend to not have a full understanding of what it is being a person of substance.
who you are inside also reflects who you are on the outside

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 39

RE: Good Dom vs. Bad Dom - 9/5/2007 9:36:36 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

are you saying that LA is not perfect?! say it ain't so?! i think, correct me if i am wrong, God knows some one will...that she would be the first to ssy so...

edited to add: on a completely different note...i still ocassionally have fantasies of dungeons falling on certain Dominants....
edited further for clarity: i mean someone i have met in real life....

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 9/5/2007 9:38:13 PM >

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 40

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