RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (Full Version)

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LaMistressa -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:17:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Honestly, I really get tired of hearing about how dangerous sex-play can be.  Yes, it can be dangerous.  We know that.  But shoveling snow can be dangerous too.  When people start harping on how dangerous BDSM can be, you get the feeling that they're really just pumping up their own egos.  Be impressed, for I am a True Dom.  I hold a sub's very life in my hands when I tie her up and flog her.

Please.  That kind of talk may give you a rush, but it doesn't change the fact that people are more likely to be injured in a parking lot than by a singletail.


And this is why I never shovel snow! That shit's dangerous! [;)]



BoiJen -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:19:09 AM)

You're also assuming what is considered "serious injury." Everyone here is. Cuts that leave scars are way common. Scars are not caused by the severity of a cut...but by how tight the skin is in that particular area, how "jagged" the "cut" is, meaning that if the skin is torn it's more likely to scar rather than a cut from a scalpel. And everybody heals differently. People only have to cut through a very few layers of skin to bleed. And "deep" cuts are determined by the thickness of skin in the area. Just because someone is bleeding "alot" doesn't mean that it's a serious injury. Advil and other blood thinners cause easy bleeding. If you ate anything with garlic in it prior to a scene you're likely to bleed more.

"I've seen people with X injury...ohhh singletails are damnergous"...bullshit. Every toy is a weapon and dangerous at the same standards there. And if anybody has a question as to why I say this then personally drop me a line. I DO teach a class called "5 minutes to singletails" and "Exhibitionist Singletails" And I teach the class with a reason and get asked to teach it for a reason. I know my toys.

'Sides I tore the shit outta someone who's just itching to get it again. Someone's pansy ass "major injury" is another person's (masochist's) "good time"



Lordandmaster -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:20:11 AM)

Umm, yes, I'm aware that most people spend more time in parking lots than being whipped with a singletail, and that the comparison wasn't scientific.  I'm talking about the way people dramatize risk in order to make themselves feel more vital.  No one thinks twice about risking injury in a parking lot.  But when it comes to singletails, everyone wants to feel that they're braving Lucifer's own direst hazards.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

There is a problem with your logic there.  The only reason I can see for injury in a parking lot to be more common has nothnig to do with the inherent dangers of parking lots or singletails, but rather with frequency of opportunity for mishap.  If you want to have a valid comparison, you'd have to use injury rates.  Just what percentage of drives through a parking lot result in injury?  In serious injury?  What percentage of scenes utilizing a single tail result in injury?  In serious injury?  Unless you have a reasonable basis of comparison, you are talking apples to oranges.



BoiJen -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:21:42 AM)

Does that mean I can call myself "Lucifer" now?



MadRabbit -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:22:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

You're also assuming what is considered "serious injury." Everyone here is. Cuts that leave scars are way common. Scars are not caused by the severity of a cut...but by how tight the skin is in that particular area, how "jagged" the "cut" is, meaning that if the skin is torn it's more likely to scar rather than a cut from a scalpel. And everybody heals differently. People only have to cut through a very few layers of skin to bleed. And "deep" cuts are determined by the thickness of skin in the area. Just because someone is bleeding "alot" doesn't mean that it's a serious injury. Advil and other blood thinners cause easy bleeding. If you ate anything with garlic in it prior to a scene you're likely to bleed more.

"I've seen people with X injury...ohhh singletails are damnergous"...bullshit. Every toy is a weapon and dangerous at the same standards there. And if anybody has a question as to why I say this then personally drop me a line. I DO teach a class called "5 minutes to singletails" and "Exhibitionist Singletails" And I teach the class with a reason and get asked to teach it for a reason. I know my toys.

'Sides I tore the shit outta someone who's just itching to get it again. Someone's pansy ass "major injury" is another person's (masochist's) "good time"



Would you consider candle wax to have the same margin for the potential to cause the subjective term of "serious injury" as a whip?

I am completely against all the cadets in the safety force and I am against the dramatization of injury. In that aspect, I agree.

But I am also against overshadowing the fact that a certain toy has the potential to do a degree of injury in light of the fact that those injuries occur in a minority based on the snowball surveys presented here.

Edited Once Again To Add : There is a difference between the likehood of injuries occuring and the potential presented by a certain act to cause an injury. I happen to be a butcher and work besides machines that are designed to crush and cut bone and flesh and dont really make any distinction between which time they crush.

Would I say injury is something that I worry about though in my job or am I afraid of? Nope

Would I say that these machines dont have the potential to cause serious injury and major injuries? Fuck no.



BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:24:08 AM)

Not only scars which is part of the game but there is a bad staph germ which has come up within the bdsm community, all it takes is a very small cut to invade...all impact play should be done only after a good cleaning of toys before hand.....bounty



LordVelvet -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:25:44 AM)

I have been holding the whip when it happened. I was trained but right as the whip was about the hit, he moved just a little. It cut him open rather well but no enough to warrant a trip to the hospital. Accidents happen.
LordVelvet



BoiJen -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:25:54 AM)

yes I would...in fact I consider it more  "dangerous" as burns tend to leave "deeper" wounds than singletails. People don't generally know exactly how hot something is...then again my father was a firefighter and I'm paranoid.

And truely I consider any type of rope play (specifically bondage) the "most" dangerous type of play out there....go ahead ask me why.



RRafe -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:26:55 AM)

And leather is extremely hard to clean properly. I prefer to avoid playing in clubs, or with too many people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

Not only scars which is part of the game but there is a bad staph germ which has come up within the bdsm community, all it takes is a very small cut to invade...all impact play should be done only after a good cleaning of toys before hand.....bounty



MadRabbit -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:29:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

yes I would...in fact I consider it more  "dangerous" as burns tend to leave "deeper" wounds than singletails. People don't generally know exactly how hot something is...then again my father was a firefighter and I'm paranoid.


Well, I have to seriously disagree because I worked as a professional cook/chef for my life and have been burned a hell of a lot. In my subjective opinion, I would not consider singletails and candle wax to be in the same ballpark at all. Especially considering one takes a lot of time to master and the other took me a few sessions. I find candlewax burns to be laughable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
And truely I consider any type of rope play (specifically bondage) the "most" dangerous type of play out there....go ahead ask me why.



Sure, I'll bite



BoiJen -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:30:36 AM)

My whips are nylon.....the whip maker's site is TheWhipChick.com She's back order from last I knew at least a couple of weeks. Her crackers are also changeable so I don't ever reuse the same cracker.

And what did I see? "It cut him open rather well but no enough to warrant a trip to the hospital."

Thank you LordVelvet.



MadRabbit -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:33:13 AM)

Also...please keep in mind, BoiJen...

You did not say "There is a small chance of injury occuring from a whip"

You said "There is NO WAY"



celticlord2112 -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:34:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
Every toy is a weapon and dangerous at the same standards there.


Factually and demonstrably NOT true.

A butt plug is hardly likely to cut flesh in the same fashion as a singletail.  It DOES have the potential to damage the rectum.

However, the statistical likelihood for serious bodily injury from a butt plug is far less than that from a singletail, or even a flogger.

To play despite the risk is personal choice.  To dismiss the risk is foolishness.  To mock others for contemplating the risk is amateurish and offensive.

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn how many groups you stand in front of and purport to teach.  On these forums you present yourself as reckless and immature--between you and the singletail, YOU are more likely to cause grievous bodily harm than the singletail.




BoiJen -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:40:30 AM)

I said serious injury.

Now I learned how to use a whip within minutes. It's why my own class is called "5 minutes to singletails"

Rope (just like floggers) is mostly dangerous because people think "I can't possibly hurt someone with this." The number one cause for injuries resulting in hopsital or emergency care in the BDSM world are caused from rope use. Rope bondage is also the number one leader in accidental death in the BDSM world. Ever heard those stories about somebody hanging themselves? Some of them are true...and mostly tend to make headlines. Loss of circulation is very hazardous to your health and is likely to cause blood clotting in spots where it's not supposed to happen. Joints are damaged on a regular basis for being tied up the wrong way or for too long in any one particular position.

I mentioned floggers...floggers tend to be heavier toys. And while our kidneys are rather durable as far as internal organs ...people crack ribs on a relatively frequent basis as far as "serious injur" BDSM type play goes.

Think about it...on any given day someone will pick up a flogger and immmediately go to hit someone on their firstf ew minutes of playing with it. And not think twice because it doesn't "look" like a "dangerous" toy. And on any given day someone who picks up a whip thinks they have a "deadly weapon" in their hand and isn't likely to do much more than hold it to look cool. Part of the myth of the singletail.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:42:29 AM)

You're just talking out of your ass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

However, the statistical likelihood for serious bodily injury from a butt plug is far less than that from a singletail, or even a flogger.



BoiJen -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:42:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


Factually and demonstrably NOT true.

A butt plug is hardly likely to cut flesh in the same fashion as a singletail.  It DOES have the potential to damage the rectum.

However, the statistical likelihood for serious bodily injury from a butt plug is far less than that from a singletail, or even a flogger.

To play despite the risk is personal choice.  To dismiss the risk is foolishness.  To mock others for contemplating the risk is amateurish and offensive.

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn how many groups you stand in front of and purport to teach.  On these forums you present yourself as reckless and immature--between you and the singletail, YOU are more likely to cause grievous bodily harm than the singletail.




And it's stuff like this that tells me people don't actually get out of their lil cubby holes and stop reading the fiction on the net.

Sides a butt plug gone wrong is likely to tear not only skin but the muscles of a sphincter...I hear the words "blown out ass" more than I'd like right about now. And frankly my singletails can't do THAT.



AquaticSub -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:42:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Also...please keep in mind, BoiJen...

You did not say "There is a small chance of injury occuring from a whip"

You said "There is NO WAY"



Just thought it could use a little highlighting.

The stats are that I am more likely to get in a car crash causing death than a BDSM accident.

I'm also amazed at how lightly people view driving and the conditions people will drive under (severe lack of sleep, mild intoxication, while high, etc). Just because people accept the risk of driving/BDSM play/swimming in the ocean/sky diving/whatever does not mean you should ignore those risks. They don't magically go away.



amelliagrace -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:49:17 AM)

Lordandmaster:
Which is why I also said that you had a valid point on that. (Those words are in the "quote' section of the post, which may have confused things).
 
To BoiJen:
Yep, one person's serious injury might be another's good time.  Indeed, just about anythnig can be used as a weapon, used to harm, become an "oops", or be misued by the clueless.  That doesn't change my opinion that some things are inherently more risky than others.  Personally, I think that is a reality that it doesn't take more than common sense to see.  I also consider it someone else's business if they enjoy being scarred.  Takes all kinds.  The topic at hand deals more with irresponsible statements, and a lack of awareness.
 
Do you honestly believe that a single flogger stroke has a risk factor comparable to the risk factor in a stroke from from a single tail?  There are competent, highly skilled whip weilders.  The human factor is the real bitch.  Contrary to legend and myth, Dominants sometimes miss, err, or make a mistake.  If one of them does it with a knife, it may not be a big deal, but the potential for it to be a big deal is quite real.  If the Dominant goofs with a slapper, the potential for harm isn't what I'd consider even close to that of an error made with flame or single tail.
 
Sure, people will draw the line in different places for what is "serious", but somehow I can't fathom any sane and responsible individual calling the loss of an eye or having an ear ripped half off to be "minor".
 
-grace



SmokingGun82 -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:54:52 AM)

I think there's a middle ground between "singletails can KILL OH MY GOD THE HUMANITY!" and "They're no more dangerous than a newborn kitten that's had it claws and teeth removed!"

Anything can be made dangerous- even said newborn toothless, clawless kitten. Freak accidents can occur. One time I saw a guy open a beer bottle, using a bottle opener. His grip slipped, the cap went flying, and it caught someone right in the eye. He's blind now. I'm not sure the odds of that happening, but it's gotta be on the order of getting hit by lightning while winning the lottery and being bitten by a shark six days in a row.

I'm willing to bet at least one, possibly more than one, other person on these forums has seen some sort of injury from a bottle being opened, even if it's just a decent chunk of thumb being taken off when someone thought a bottle was twist-off and it wasn't. There are definitely people who've opened bottles without injuring themselves.

People use singletails and hurt others. There are obviously way more instances where no one gets hurt.

I'm going to side with singletails can be dangerous, if there's a freak accident, or if someone isn't really paying attention, or if they screw up- user error, in other words. And yes, user error can be caused by inexperience- that doesn't make the toy any more inherently dangerous. I wouldn't let a five year old play with any of my Zippo's- that doesn't mean the lighter is dangerous.

The opening sentence deliberately exagerrated both points of view- if I'm going to offend one side, might as well go for both.

And, as always, that's just my opinion.



BitaTruble -> RE: Whips and 'Accidents' (9/7/2007 9:57:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

The number one cause for injuries resulting in hopsital or emergency care in the BDSM world are caused from rope use. Rope bondage is also the number one leader in accidental death in the BDSM world.


Citation, please? I'd like to read the source for these facts myself. I have a vested interested in such because of my hard-core penchant for rope bondage. Thanks in advance,

Celeste



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