RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam

RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/7/2007 10:57:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Now I know about the "72 virgins" but if I just punch myself in the face can I get just two virgins? "Who the hell wants 7 virgins? Give me one professional" George Clooney.

popeye1250 -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 12:22:26 AM)
Has Hillary Clinton ordered her Burkka yet? You know that some lefty moonbats will convert.

NorthernGent -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 12:43:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra I'd rather dig my eyes out with a fork than convert to Islam, or any other religion. They are as bad as the Nazis in their hate for other human beings. Besides this redhead isn't putting a rag on her head and groveling at the feet of anyone. ~Lashra Sarcasm? If not, comparing Islam with National Socialism is wide of the mark. Who is to say a "rag on the head" and "grovelling at the feet" are any more oppressed than Western women prostituting themselves in marriages undepinned by money and shoes in exchange for a good looking woman? 'Simply cultural values, and those running Western culture like to tell us that we're right and they're wrong; primarily because of moments like today when they want support for their ventures into land belonging to the "wrong" people.

NorthernGent -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 12:53:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070907/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_video What a fucking hypocrite. "Convert to Islam, because that's good. We might still kill you anyway, because we don't particularly give a shit whom we blow up when we blow up our targets, but at least you'll be a Muslim when we kill you." Why do Muslims listen to this asshole? I can't see anything about converting to Islam in that link; I see "embrace Islam". Personally, I do not trust the people running your country, including your secret services. They will say anything, absolutely anything to achieve their goals, and they have form for it stretching back a long time. It's fairly easy to take a few quotes out of context and cobble them together to present them in a certain way in order to meet a political agenda; I would also want a view on the authenticity of this video before even considering anything they're saying. Many people are looking at this conflict and believe the Americans to be the greatest threat to world stability, not the Iraqis, nor the Iranians, nor any other group of Muslims. The Americans are the ones with form for invading countries and overthrowing sovereign governments stretching back decades: that fact tells a story.

InfernoMDM -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 12:59:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra I'd rather dig my eyes out with a fork than convert to Islam, or any other religion. They are as bad as the Nazis in their hate for other human beings. Besides this redhead isn't putting a rag on her head and groveling at the feet of anyone. ~Lashra Sarcasm? If not, comparing Islam with National Socialism is wide of the mark. Who is to say a "rag on the head" and "grovelling at the feet" are any more oppressed than Western women prostituting themselves in marriages undepinned by money and shoes in exchange for a good looking woman? 'Simply cultural values, and those running Western culture like to tell us that we're right and they're wrong; primarily because of moments like today when they want support for their ventures into land belonging to the "wrong" people. Last time I checked most socialist nations killed people that stepped out of line. Russians sent people to Goulogs(SP), and muslim extremists for instance kill 70,000 people in Algeria to include women who are unveiled. Socialism isn't a bad concept, but it rarely works even remotely well. As for your comparions of values. Women may show off there self for things, but at the end of the day its is the choice of the woman to do this. In other muslim countires like Iran, showing to much skin by accident will get you killed. Here at least they wont be killed for either course of action.

NorthernGent -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 1:07:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InfernoMDM quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra I'd rather dig my eyes out with a fork than convert to Islam, or any other religion. They are as bad as the Nazis in their hate for other human beings. Besides this redhead isn't putting a rag on her head and groveling at the feet of anyone. ~Lashra Sarcasm? If not, comparing Islam with National Socialism is wide of the mark. Who is to say a "rag on the head" and "grovelling at the feet" are any more oppressed than Western women prostituting themselves in marriages undepinned by money and shoes in exchange for a good looking woman? 'Simply cultural values, and those running Western culture like to tell us that we're right and they're wrong; primarily because of moments like today when they want support for their ventures into land belonging to the "wrong" people. Last time I checked most socialist nations killed people that stepped out of line. Russians sent people to Goulogs(SP), and muslim extremists for instance kill 70,000 people in Algeria to include women who are unveiled. Socialism isn't a bad concept, but it rarely works even remotely well. Have another check. Britain has had a Socialist government, no one was killed, the same applies to France. It seems to me that you're crow-barring extremes into the norm position. How did the Americans treat Communists during the '60s etc? Weren't they the victims of spying and other forms of oppression. 'No use playing Snow White here, pal. I'll swerve the offer of an honest debate on the ins and outs of Socialism. quote: ORIGINAL: InfernoMDM As for your comparions of values. Women may show off there self for things, but at the end of the day its is the choice of the woman to do this. In other muslim countires like Iran, showing to much skin by accident will get you killed. Here at least they wont be killed for either course of action. It may be the choice of the Western woman, but is it an inforned choice? Does the Western woman understand the damage to her self-esteem? After-all, self-esteem is everything when it comes to happiness. Is it not the choice of the Muslim woman to wear a head dress?

seeksfemslave -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 1:23:40 AM)
While believe it or not I agree with some of what NG says,eg criticism of the Wisconsin Senator's antics in the 50's and especially the CIA, he appears to be overlooking the fact that bin Laden sees himself and his religion as being in a fight to the death with Western values.We either appease or oppose. To achieve their aims fundamentalist Muslims will do anything up to exploding dirty nuclear devices. Is that western propaganda ?

NorthernGent -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 1:35:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave While believe it or not I agree with some of what NG says,eg criticism of the Wisconsin Senator's antics in the 50's and especially the CIA, he appears to be overlooking the fact that bin Laden sees himself and his religion as being in a fight to the death with Western values.We either appease or oppose. To achieve their aims fundamentalist Muslims will do anything up to exploding dirty nuclear devices. Is that western propaganda ? You're confusing Bin Laden, fundamentalism, terrorism and Islam: they're not one and the same, so there's no use in trying to fit them into a neat package to support your pre-conceived notions.

farglebargle -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 1:54:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave While believe it or not I agree with some of what NG says,eg criticism of the Wisconsin Senator's antics in the 50's and especially the CIA, he appears to be overlooking the fact that bin Laden sees himself and his religion as being in a fight to the death with Western values.We either appease or oppose. To achieve their aims fundamentalist Muslims will do anything up to exploding dirty nuclear devices. Is that western propaganda ? No, but you have to understand that Fundamentalist Christians are exactly as dangerous a threat, too. You'll find extremist nuts everywhere. There are Bush Supporters who think Nuking Iran is a good idea. The great challenge is not to lose your nerve. Bush never had any guts in the first place, so it's no wonder he's a chicken-shit pussy when it comes time to accept the price of Freedom and Liberty -- Other people having Freedom and Liberty.

NorthernGent -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 2:36:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle The great challenge is not to lose your nerve. Bush never had any guts in the first place, so it's no wonder he's a chicken-shit pussy when it comes time to accept the price of Freedom and Liberty -- Other people having Freedom and Liberty. Bush and associates couldn't care less about freedom and liberty: they're in it for the power. They'll lie to their own people, spy on their own people, and kill people in foreign lands to protect their position. The challenge is for the average man/woman on the street to understand their place is in this game, and aim for self-ownership rather than having their strings pulled by establishment propaganda; this assumes that the average man/woman on the street is remotely interested in the concept of freedom/liberty. The establishment will paint their cultural values as being right, and all others wrong, but they're simply ideas; there's good and bad in every culture, and depending on pre-conceived ideas we could take the good or the bad, rather than accept it for it is: simply another way of living, a different take on life, a different idea. One thing that is unmistakable though is that violence is rarely justified. There is a heavy burden of proof: in my opinion, the US government haven't satisfied this burden with their foreign policy of recent decades. That's not cultural, nothing to do with the good and bad, that's a tyrannical government invading and meddling in the affairs of sovereign nations.

Politesub53 -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 3:07:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave While believe it or not I agree with some of what NG says,eg criticism of the Wisconsin Senator's antics in the 50's and especially the CIA, he appears to be overlooking the fact that bin Laden sees himself and his religion as being in a fight to the death with Western values.We either appease or oppose. To achieve their aims fundamentalist Muslims will do anything up to exploding dirty nuclear devices. Is that western propaganda ? You're confusing Bin Laden, fundamentalism, terrorism and Islam: they're not one and the same, so there's no use in trying to fit them into a neat package to support your pre-conceived notions. Bin Laden is an Islamic fundamentalist involved in terrorism. How can you say they are not linked in a package ? True enough only a few Muslims are terrorists. Seeks views on Bin laden and what he hopes to achieve, by any means he can, are correct. He ( Bin Laden ) has issued a Fatwah stating as much. Also when Bin Laden speaks of embracing Islam its obvious to me he means convert to Islam, perhaps you choose to see it differently but that doesn`t mean everyone else is wrong.

NorthernGent -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 3:46:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave While believe it or not I agree with some of what NG says,eg criticism of the Wisconsin Senator's antics in the 50's and especially the CIA, he appears to be overlooking the fact that bin Laden sees himself and his religion as being in a fight to the death with Western values.We either appease or oppose. To achieve their aims fundamentalist Muslims will do anything up to exploding dirty nuclear devices. Is that western propaganda ? You're confusing Bin Laden, fundamentalism, terrorism and Islam: they're not one and the same, so there's no use in trying to fit them into a neat package to support your pre-conceived notions. Bin Laden is an Islamic fundamentalist involved in terrorism. How can you say they are not linked in a package ? True enough only a few Muslims are terrorists. Seeks views on Bin laden and what he hopes to achieve, by any means he can, are correct. He ( Bin Laden ) has issued a Fatwah stating as much. The OP is concerned with Bin Laden, but, as per usual, we've progressed from Bin Laden to fundamentalism to Islam as if they're all irretrievably linked i.e. the opinion that there is something about Islam that inevitably leads to terrorism, in a way that other religions don't. My point is/was that Bin Laden is one person, he is not Islam, nor is he fundamentalism, nor does fundamentalism necessarily lead to terrorism. 'Not sure how much you know about the Middle East, but they are far more concerned with fundamentalism than you and I, because they will have to live with the consequences, unlike you and I. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Also when Bin Laden speaks of embracing Islam its obvious to me he means convert to Islam, perhaps you choose to see it differently but that doesn`t mean everyone else is wrong. Is it obvious? Not to me. When I hug someone I embrace them, I invite them and accept them: I'm not attempting to control/convert that person to my way of thinking; in my mind, embrace suggests acceptance, rather than control. I'll hazard a guess that if you have a look in the dictionary for a definition of the word embrace, it will suggest inclusion rather than conversion. If you choose to see embrace as control, then I'd be baffled, but it's your call if you want to go down that road.

came4U -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 4:08:00 AM)
Get these mther fcking virgins off this mother fcking plane.

Real0ne -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 4:09:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InfernoMDM RealOne - Because there is more to his health problems then one would think. Keeping it supressed allows us the benifit of not haveing tons of Supporters of Bin Ladin not faking documentation all over the place. He doesn't let out he has medical problems to his followers because he has been formed into the image of Mohammed. Like him hiding in caves much like Mohammed did. I suggest before you go shooting off on topics you don't know you do a bit of research. Thanks i really appreciate your suggestion. So since you are the authority on the subject i wont bother mentioning that he is being taken care of in US Military hospitals, even tho he has been wanted by the US government for over 25 years. but you knew that right? Next how about you post some of his writings and lets compare them to see how closely they match the style in this cite. Do you really think his followers have no clue of his illnesses? Like he really gives a shit in the first place? Oh and he is not hiding.... People see him in the cities all the time... LOL Its just one of those things you know... like leaving the mexican borders wide open while at the same time passing the patriot act to spy on the american citizenry, only to try and make these same illegal mex's citizens with a wave of the magic wand. Suffice to say; Life is full of mysteries.

came4U -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 4:43:21 AM)
quote: Oh and he is not hiding.... People see him in the cities all the time... LOL Bin Laden, Elvis.. omg, I am seeing a connection.

Politesub53 -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 4:52:02 AM)
NG... My point about Bin Laden is that he is a Fundamentalist educated as such in Saudi. Sure not all fundamentalism leads to terrorism but much of it does, therefore, in my view, the two are linked. He is using terrorism to meet his fundamentalist beliefs. Re Embrace Islam...... Google both terms and you will see what i am getting at. We both know embrace has several meanings. [;)]

Real0ne -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 5:11:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U quote: Oh and he is not hiding.... People see him in the cities all the time... LOL Bin Laden, Elvis.. omg, I am seeing a connection. peshawar

Real0ne -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 5:21:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 He is using terrorism to meet his fundamentalist beliefs. I wonder what ever happen4ed to the use of the word "allegedly" For the life of me i dont recall any convictions/judgements being made.

came4U -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 5:21:49 AM)
Bin Laden and Elis are in Peshawar, Pakistan???

Politesub53 -> RE: Bin Laden urges Americans to convert to Islam (9/8/2007 5:34:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 He is using terrorism to meet his fundamentalist beliefs. I wonder what ever happen4ed to the use of the word "allegedly" For the life of me i dont recall any convictions/judgements being made. Why does he need to have been convicted to make my statement correct ? As i said before he has declared a Fatwah telling people to kill the US and their Allies to achive his aims of " freeing" all the Holy Sites, thats in the public domain and in his own words. While i`m at it, why dont you use allegedly with all your posts [:D]

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