RE: What is self control?

RE: What is self control? (Full Version)

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MadRabbit -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 6:37:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit When people talk about self control, they only talk in terms of the ideal. Everyone loses control. It all depends on the level of stress someone is under or the level of trauma of the situation someone is under. Good point. I have read (and made) more than a few posts where a particular dominant's behavior was deemed "abusive"--generally leading to a pontification on "self control"--so perhaps the better question to be asking is "When is it acceptable to get angry (i.e., lose control)?" In my opinion... In a philosophical and idealistic sense, its never "OK" to lose self control. If you say. "Well, I did it and it was OK", then there is no strive or drive to improve and not do it again. You have to always be accountable and responsible for your actions and have to own up to them. At that point, its up to the person who was the victim in your loss of self control and their capacity to understand to forgive. It falls down to the individual slave and whether the Master meets their personal values and standards of an acceptable level of "self control".

celticlord2112 -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 6:39:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jaxnsax Greetings No. By introducing the young boy into the argument, you removed it from the context that the question was asked. I wish you good humor and health jaxon As the OP, I am rather curious how you came to that conclusion regarding context. For clarity, I posed the following questions: quote: What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? How does MadRabbit's example fall outside of this context? The example of losing a child to violence is extreme, but I do not see how that invalidates his reasoning.

catize -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 6:43:55 PM)
I believe self control is important no matter orientation or type of relationship. Self control is recognizing the emotions, understanding the basis for that emotion and then dealing with it without harming others, without harming yourself and without undue damage to your belongings. We all have our moments when in extreme situations (as in MadRabbit’s scenario), but I’m addressing the everyday kind of shit that rolls our way.

MadRabbit -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 6:44:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jaxnsax Greetings No. By introducing the young boy into the argument, you removed it from the context that the question was asked. I wish you good humor and health jaxon I fail to see how I did that because the context of the question was "self control". Whether or not someone maintains self control depends on the level of stress and the scenario. I can maintain self control in one situation, but lose it in the next. So there is varying levels of "maintaing self control". You stated that... quote: Their emotions do not rule their actions, nor does it rule their words. This very simplistic statement doesnt take into account the varying degrees of emotion and stress presented by various circumstances. Its also something that is completely relative. You have stated that you wont be continueing this discussion, but yet you keep posting. That qualifies as a "loss of self control" because you said you were going to do X and then proceeded to Y because you allowed my future posts to influence you into staying and posting.

celticlord2112 -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 6:45:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I have yet to meet any of these dominants with this Zen like disposition. I wish to inject a small disclaimer here: My personal spiritual practice draws primarily on Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. I hardly typify the ideal you describe...but on most days it seems a worthy goal.

MadRabbit -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 6:47:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize We all have our moments when in extreme situations (as in MadRabbit’s scenario), but I’m addressing the everyday kind of shit that rolls our way. Thank you. That is exactly my point and my dogma. We would consider being able to handle everyday situations without freaking out to be the "social norm" of a mature adult.

MadRabbit -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 6:48:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I have yet to meet any of these dominants with this Zen like disposition. I wish to inject a small disclaimer here: My personal spiritual practice draws primarily on Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. I hardly typify the ideal you describe...but on most days it seems a worthy goal. I comnend you on that. As I said before, I beleive its important to have ideals that one strives for. The distinction is made between seperating an ideal for a living, breathing human being.

Grlwithboy -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 7:02:44 PM)
I think there's a latitude for a lot of personality, it really depends on the needs and tolerances of the people involved. I am loud. I'm from the east coast, from a very loud family in which one has to shout to even exist. I'm quick to get mad, but mad blows over quick. I'd be a HORRIBLE choice of Dominant for some people, but for others who have similiar backgrounds, or for my husband who's stuck it through with the patience to handle our cultural differences, it's OK. Loud doesn't mean mad, mad doesn't mean mad at you. I'm not dangerous or unskilled or abusive because I'm a bit volatile - I'm unsuitable for certain people. AND I know I'm volatile. I can explain it, and work to express myself in ways that are less confrontational and less - loud - and such. What's bad is someone with those issues who has no clue she has them and considers herself cool as a cucumber and a paragon of self containment. THEN there are problems.

Cyntilating -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 8:04:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Hardly a day passes it seems where at least one thread does not offer up some commentary on how a dominant must possess "self control"--he or she must master himself or herself before mastering others becomes even a possibility. What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? This is an excellent question... could it be another one of those personal perspective and personal preference subjects? I ask because.... when I think of "having self-control" in a vanilla way........for instance > using self-control with ones nutrition or diet>>> you think of " things in moderation" ... not too little and not too extreme somewhere in the middle... being in control of eating habits and not having food control you...just as an example. well...personally ..Im not so sure that applies to the context of Ds or Ms... I happen to enjoy some of the extremes of my Ds relationship.... "in moderation" really doesnt describe much of what he and I experience together.. and I certainly wouldn't describe him as "lacking self-control" because of the dynamics/extremes of his desires and actions.. I think with regards to submission > a person cannot give or submit what they do not already possess or have.. including control of themselves first..in order to give that control to another.. love of self..in order to love another.. sense of self.. and so in that context> control of oneself means...emotionally, mentally and physically able to take care of themselves and their actions and maintain their life in a stable and reasonable manner. the same would apply to a Dominant/Domme/Master... to accept the submission ( control ) of another, they would first have to have the same in their own lives... The personal perspective part comes in> when trying to define what "reasonable and stable" means..and what is emotionally and physically able or healthy. may mean different things to different people... personally what I look for in a Master in the way of being in control of himself>> usually is incontrol of everything that WASNT being controlled (or under control )in the person in my prior relationship ( ie addiction/habits/anger/emotions/feelings/words of degradation).. but I also know those will not be everyones definition. and yes, I do feel it is vital to a Ms or Ds relationship..needing to feel secure that the person you give your control over to HAS control and can handle yours.. ..it creates security... sense of security leads to trust...trust is vital to submission..imo.

RRafe -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 8:17:55 PM)
It's about having an emotional and mental edge. If you cannot control your own thoughts, emotions, and reactions....someone else will. quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Hardly a day passes it seems where at least one thread does not offer up some commentary on how a dominant must possess "self control"--he or she must master himself or herself before mastering others becomes even a possibility. What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship?

slaveluci -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 8:47:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe It's about having an emotional and mental edge. If you cannot control your own thoughts, emotions, and reactions....someone else will I totally agree with this statement, RRafe, as well as several others made throughout this thread. I consider my Master to be almost Zen-like as He is very in control of His emotions and reactions. We actually were just joking about this the other day when we both checked our blood pressure and pulse. Mine was nearly twice as fast as His! We laughed because that's pretty indicative of our states of mind. I'm always seemingly "worked up" about this or that and He is "Mr. Cool." Now, as MadRabbit posited, if I murdered someone in front of Him I'm sure that would alter a bit. Outside of that or something like it, He indeed does maintain. I guess to me, I see Him as having much self-control because of some of the following reasons: He works for a psycho bitch who I personally believe is menopausal and bi-polar. She could make the Pope curse. He tells me about her nonsense and I want to drive down there and bitchslap her every single day. He doesn't raise His voice or call her nice little names (outside of her earshot, of course) or any of that. He tries to see reason in her madness[8\|]. That's maddening to me somedays. He sometimes deals with angry customers and is always able to defuse the situation. He actually enjoys starting out with someone who is unhappy and doing all He can to make them a satisfied customer. He has never raised His voice at me or said anything even coming close to being mean or hateful, even when He's been displeased. He's had reason to before, but He never has. (And He's not passive-aggressive, either). He just doesn't seem to have those reactions. He is very patient with things that give me headaches like computer problems, etc. Never gets visibly irritated or slams things around even when the going gets tough. I feel like taking a sledgehammer to the thing and He's all calm and easy-going. *He exhibits much self-control as far as bad habits. He has none that I know of. Doesn't smoke, drink, do drugs, gamble, cheat, etc. Basically, He just seems to have Himself together. He's wise and calm and patient....all things I aspire to be more of. He sees me sweating the small stuff and has a sense of humor about it. I'm doing better about not being that way and He's really helping me. As MadRabbit said, "self control doesn't translate to being uptight" because Master certainly isn't. He's very laid-back and funny and accepting. You just have to find that delicate balance. The OP asked why self-control is important to M/s. I think it's especially so since He has total control of me. Heaven forbid He couldn't control Himself but sought to control me. I need someone to guide me and help me grow, not be as reactive as I can sometimes be[;)]................luci

SirDraco7 -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:05:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jaxnsax Greetings What is self-control? When I use the term in regards to others, whether they be Dominant, submissive, male, female…I use it in regards to a persons ability to maintain a calm attitude. Their emotions do not rule their actions, nor does it rule their words. I hope this day finds you in good humor and health jaxon I understand where you are coming from, and I can see your point. My defination differs in some respect. Self control, to me, doesn't have to be just being calm and Zen like. Self control, to me means that they control their emotions. Being calm could be one aspect of that, but so could anything else. Just because you get angry donesn't mean you don't have self control. It all depends on if you control the anger or the anger controls you. Emotions are natural, they will happen. be it happy and good ones, or sad and bad ones. Self control is all about how you control the emotions. Don't let them control you. This includes becoming addicted to whatever emotion. At times emotions might rule their actions, but the emotions would never rule them. That is the difference. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that My definition differs from yours slightly. Your defination is yours. Saying it's wrong or incorrect is like saying your defination of slave is wrong because mine is right. Just my thoughts....

RRafe -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:17:58 PM)
I like being happy.. like those around me being happy. I tend to shut out or alter things that do not-including people. You'll doubtless notice that with me here too-refusing to feed the negative with attention. But show me wisdon, new things of benfit-creativity and laughter that has no victim-and you will gain not just my attention-but my compassion and loyalty. Why is that? Those are the only buttons I LET people have access to.[;)] quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe It's about having an emotional and mental edge. If you cannot control your own thoughts, emotions, and reactions....someone else will I totally agree with this statement, RRafe, as well as several others made throughout this thread. I consider my Master to be almost Zen-like as He is very in control of His emotions and reactions. We actually were just joking about this the other day when we both checked our blood pressure and pulse. Mine was nearly twice as fast as His! We laughed because that's pretty indicative of our states of mind. I'm always seemingly "worked up" about this or that and He is "Mr. Cool." Now, as MadRabbit posited, if I murdered someone in front of Him I'm sure that would alter a bit. Outside of that or something like it, He indeed does maintain. I guess to me, I see Him as having much self-control because of some of the following reasons: He works for a psycho bitch who I personally believe is menopausal and bi-polar. She could make the Pope curse. He tells me about her nonsense and I want to drive down there and bitchslap her every single day. He doesn't raise His voice or call her nice little names (outside of her earshot, of course) or any of that. He tries to see reason in her madness[8\|]. That's maddening to me somedays. He sometimes deals with angry customers and is always able to defuse the situation. He actually enjoys starting out with someone who is unhappy and doing all He can to make them a satisfied customer. He has never raised His voice at me or said anything even coming close to being mean or hateful, even when He's been displeased. He's had reason to before, but He never has. (And He's not passive-aggressive, either). He just doesn't seem to have those reactions. He is very patient with things that give me headaches like computer problems, etc. Never gets visibly irritated or slams things around even when the going gets tough. I feel like taking a sledgehammer to the thing and He's all calm and easy-going. *He exhibits much self-control as far as bad habits. He has none that I know of. Doesn't smoke, drink, do drugs, gamble, cheat, etc. Basically, He just seems to have Himself together. He's wise and calm and patient....all things I aspire to be more of. He sees me sweating the small stuff and has a sense of humor about it. I'm doing better about not being that way and He's really helping me. As MadRabbit said, "self control doesn't translate to being uptight" because Master certainly isn't. He's very laid-back and funny and accepting. You just have to find that delicate balance. The OP asked why self-control is important to M/s. I think it's especially so since He has total control of me. Heaven forbid He couldn't control Himself but sought to control me. I need someone to guide me and help me grow, not be as reactive as I can sometimes be[;)]................luci

ownedgirlie -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:31:53 PM)
~ FR ~ I think people should have realistic self control. For the most part, my Master is a very controlled person. But he is also a very passionate person. When he laughs, he laughs hard. When he's happy, he radiates it. When he's angry, you sure as hell know it. When he's lustful...well...never mind...heh. But he always knows how far he is going and controls when to stop or pull back. Yes, he will yell when he is angry. But he won't fly off the handle and break things or hurt me. Yes, he puts himself into it and enjoys his use of me. But he won't overdo it and break me. And so on. He is very aware of his actions and very conscious of doing no harm - mental, emotional or physical. To me, someone who lacks self control is someone who lacks discipline, and who may not stop before harming something or someone, including themselves. And someone may be very controlled in one element of life but out of control in another (as seen in some people with addictions, or with abusers). As for the D/s setting, I rely on my Master's self control, and he relies on mine. If he had no self control/self discipline, he could not dominate me. If I had no self control/self discipline, I could not adequately obey.

slaveluci -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:34:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe I like being happy.. like those around me being happy. I tend to shut out or alter things that do not-including people. You'll doubtless notice that with me here too-refusing to feed the negative with attention. But show me wisdon, new things of benfit-creativity and laughter that has no victim-and you will gain not just my attention-but my compassion and loyalty. Why is that? Those are the only buttons I LET people have access to.[;)] How wonderful and wise of you[:)]. Very healthy way to handle things, I do believe.........luci

slaveluci -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:36:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie As for the D/s setting, I rely on my Master's self control, and he relies on mine. If he had no self control/self discipline, he could not dominate me. If I had no self control/self discipline, I could not adequately obey. Very good point that no one else has brought up thus far. As you point out, it is equally as important on both sides "of the kneel," as they say...........luci

RRafe -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:37:39 PM)
Yes, there must be parity. An owner cannot maintain a healthy state with an unhealthy and unstable property. quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie ~ FR ~ I think people should have realistic self control. For the most part, my Master is a very controlled person. But he is also a very passionate person. When he laughs, he laughs hard. When he's happy, he radiates it. When he's angry, you sure as hell know it. When he's lustful...well...never mind...heh. But he always knows how far he is going and controls when to stop or pull back. Yes, he will yell when he is angry. But he won't fly off the handle and break things or hurt me. Yes, he puts himself into it and enjoys his use of me. But he won't overdo it and break me. And so on. He is very aware of his actions and very conscious of doing no harm - mental, emotional or physical. To me, someone who lacks self control is someone who lacks discipline, and who may not stop before harming something or someone, including themselves. And someone may be very controlled in one element of life but out of control in another (as seen in some people with addictions, or with abusers). As for the D/s setting, I rely on my Master's self control, and he relies on mine. If he had no self control/self discipline, he could not dominate me. If I had no self control/self discipline, I could not adequately obey.

ownedgirlie -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:41:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Yes, there must be parity. An owner cannot maintain a healthy state with an unhealthy and unstable property. Nor would mine tolerate it.

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 9:56:40 PM)
Ack. I actually don't believe that doms need to be any more in control of their lives than subs. I think it's great for all people to develop self control. To develop self determination. To be able to evolve in ways they think important. Just not partial to thinking of it as a dominant trait. Why does this thread remind me of the white knight thread? I don't ascribe to the all knowing, all controlled, all whatever dominant. He's not better at that stuff than I am. I just like him leading me. And he's good at it.

RRafe -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 10:59:01 PM)
It's not really about the white knight. In a way, keeping control can be somewhat of a wall. One keeps certain things back, and throttles them down-or flat out sublimates them. I'm a rather mellow, calm guy. Which overlies a creatively passionate, rather cruel twin. Yes I can also be a bastard at play time.......I delight in inflicting certain amount of suffering and discomfort. It's a way to vent and appease that side of myself. It's never anything about compartmentalizing. I doubt I could manage a split personna. I simply have a practical view of when to express it-with who-and where to stop. Which is the control I feel that a Top needs to be able to excercise-to be a Top. It has not a lot to do with the rest of how one lives. quote: ORIGINAL: arayofsunshine55 Ack. I actually don't believe that doms need to be any more in control of their lives than subs. I think it's great for all people to develop self control. To develop self determination. To be able to evolve in ways they think important. Just not partial to thinking of it as a dominant trait. Why does this thread remind me of the white knight thread? I don't ascribe to the all knowing, all controlled, all whatever dominant. He's not better at that stuff than I am. I just like him leading me. And he's good at it.

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