RE: What is self control?

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mnottertail -> RE: What is self control? (9/8/2007 11:16:51 PM)
What is self control? It is the certain jenaise se quas I lack when I am geting dog-licking peanut butter blowjobs from the love of my life---- easy to explain what it isn't but not easy to explain what it is. Ron

Cyntilating -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 3:37:24 AM)
[Basically, He just seems to have Himself together. He's wise and calm and patient....all things I aspire to be more of. He sees me sweating the small stuff and has a sense of humor about it. I'm doing better about not being that way and He's really helping me. As MadRabbit said, "self control doesn't translate to being uptight" because Master certainly isn't. He's very laid-back and funny and accepting. You just have to find that delicate balance] Luci great post! thats a very good term for it..."balanced" yes : ) and the examples you gave made me smile......they sound so similar to the calm and balance ( thanks) he brings to our relationship... being in control of emotions and reactions is an important one for me ( which is kind of hypocritical of me actually since most of the time I'm "emoting" all over the place about something LOL between menopause and just being an emotional person to begin with, I love the fact that he can embrace all that from me but not get wrapped up in it either... does that make sense? ) anyway thanks for your post. smiles

HalloweenWhite -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 4:14:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Hardly a day passes it seems where at least one thread does not offer up some commentary on how a dominant must possess "self control"--he or she must master himself or herself before mastering others becomes even a possibility. What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? As I understand the term, its the abiity control the extent to show, or not show what you're feeling. The point of that being that how you carry yourself and handle yourself around others matters for purposes of safety (in play) and respect for O/others in the lifetsyle.

burningdesires47 -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 6:00:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? What it means: Self control is the exertion of one's own will on their personal self - their behaviors, actions, thought processes. It is about having developed the ability to behave in a socially-acceptable manner, it's about having standards and holding one's self to the standards of themselves and the people around them. quote: ORIGINAL: jaxnsax: I use it in regards to a persons ability to maintain a calm attitude. EW. I don't want a Dom with a calm attitude. I want a Dom with Passions, with Flair, with Desire, who REACTS to the world around them and get FIRED UP and EXCITED over things. Pffft. F*k calm. I've had calm, I HAVE calm, and it just irritates me. Calm =/=self control (actually, all the "calm" people I know are the ones who lose control the worst. There's a difference between being in control and bottling things up so they explode.) quote:* ORIGINAL: MadRabbit: a reasonable and adult level of emotional control Now realizing that I just used societal norms as a caveat, I'm going to play devil's advocate to your comment and ask this: So if we use examples of the world around us to determine an ADULT level of self control, then your anti-examples are going to be THE example of self-control. If ADULT means how most adults behave, then it's going to be a matter of behaving in the most abhorrent, abusive manner toward one's self and the world around them. Wasteful behavior, entitlement complexes, unaccepting of apologies, no logic whatsoever, waiting to speak versus listening to another person talking, I'm sure you can fill in your own examples here. I personally, having seen how most adults behave, wouldn't use "adult" to mean anything anymore. quote: ORIGINAL: jaxnsax: By introducing the young boy into the argument Proof that you need to read the posts in their entirety and understand them before posting: child=/=boy quote: ORIGINAL: Mad Rabbit: Now...the flip side of this...is all these things are just as equally important to a slave. Page 1 of this thread quote: ORIGINAL: catize: I believe self control is important no matter orientation or type of relationship. post 23 quote: ownedgirlie As for the D/s setting, I rely on my Master's self control, and he relies on mine. If he had no self control/self discipline, he could not dominate me. If I had no self control/self discipline, I could not adequately obey. post 34 to which the following was replied: quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci: Very good point that no one else has brought up thus far. As you point out, it is equally as important on both sides "of the kneel," as they say I would say self control, by the examples jaxnsax gave, is not a desired trait at all. By the examples MadRabbit gave, perhaps not entirely a useless goal. But by the dictionary definition that I quoted above, if my will is to let my emotions sway my conscious decisions and my life, then that IS self control. If my will is to feel an emotion fully rather than shy away from them and shut them out then that IS self control. That means that self control IS flying off the handle and screaming and throwing things when I feel like it, it IS screwing every guy I want to when I feel like it, it IS drinking to excess when I feel like it, and it IS sleeping in til 3pm when I feel like it. Not that I do any of those things, because as much as I'd like to, my will is also to succeed at the goals I have in life, and those behaviors are not conducive to those goals. However, I STILL let my emotions rule me because that's who I am. I am EXCITED about my goals, and that DESIRE to reach them is what guides my decisions. How is that in any way bad? edit: typo

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 8:44:11 AM)
I'm not sure you got my point. Why is this seen as a dominant trait? Why is the dom/me the identified one with self-control? Does that mean that the submissive gets to be out of control? And hence my white knight reference. quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe It's not really about the white knight. In a way, keeping control can be somewhat of a wall. One keeps certain things back, and throttles them down-or flat out sublimates them. I'm a rather mellow, calm guy. Which overlies a creatively passionate, rather cruel twin. Yes I can also be a bastard at play time.......I delight in inflicting certain amount of suffering and discomfort. It's a way to vent and appease that side of myself. It's never anything about compartmentalizing. I doubt I could manage a split personna. I simply have a practical view of when to express it-with who-and where to stop. Which is the control I feel that a Top needs to be able to excercise-to be a Top. It has not a lot to do with the rest of how one lives. quote: ORIGINAL: arayofsunshine55 Ack. I actually don't believe that doms need to be any more in control of their lives than subs. I think it's great for all people to develop self control. To develop self determination. To be able to evolve in ways they think important. Just not partial to thinking of it as a dominant trait. Why does this thread remind me of the white knight thread? I don't ascribe to the all knowing, all controlled, all whatever dominant. He's not better at that stuff than I am. I just like him leading me. And he's good at it.

celticlord2112 -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 12:39:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: burningdesires47 I would say self control, by the examples jaxnsax gave, is not a desired trait at all. By the examples MadRabbit gave, perhaps not entirely a useless goal. But by the dictionary definition that I quoted above, if my will is to let my emotions sway my conscious decisions and my life, then that IS self control. If my will is to feel an emotion fully rather than shy away from them and shut them out then that IS self control. That means that self control IS flying off the handle and screaming and throwing things when I feel like it, it IS screwing every guy I want to when I feel like it, it IS drinking to excess when I feel like it, and it IS sleeping in til 3pm when I feel like it. Not that I do any of those things, because as much as I'd like to, my will is also to succeed at the goals I have in life, and those behaviors are not conducive to those goals. However, I STILL let my emotions rule me because that's who I am. I am EXCITED about my goals, and that DESIRE to reach them is what guides my decisions. How is that in any way bad? To me, it is not bad at all. Yours is, without a doubt, one of the more distinctive articulation of self control I have seen.

slaveluci -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 12:42:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cyntilating Luci great post! thats a very good term for it..."balanced" yes : ) and the examples you gave made me smile......they sound so similar to the calm and balance ( thanks) he brings to our relationship.....being in control of emotions and reactions is an important one for me ( which is kind of hypocritical of me actually since most of the time I'm "emoting" all over the place about something LOL between menopause and just being an emotional person to begin with, I love the fact that he can embrace all that from me but not get wrapped up in it either... does that make sense? ) anyway thanks for your post. smiles Thank you very much, Cyntilating. Glad someone else knows exactly what I mean. I'm much like you describe ("emoting all over the place," LOL). I can't help it, it's my personality. I'm a Cancer, what can I say?[;)] But since we are so often at the mercy of emotions, that's why it's so vital to serve One who is not. It does create that perfect balance. It's not like Master and I are so different that we clash. It's like He gives me what I lack and vice versa. Yin, yang, the whole bit, ya know? Glad my post made sense and I also had to laugh when I read back through my examples. I'm sure there are many more I forgot............luci

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 2:13:43 PM)
To the OP...maybe it simply comes down to a propotional response to an outside stimuli..ie:..Mad Rabbits UM is being beaten, and he intervenes and beats the bloody crap out of said perpetrator...he then exercised self control, as he did not kill the perpetrator..:0)..proportional response!..Tempting

Cyntilating -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 4:58:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: Cyntilating Luci great post! thats a very good term for it..."balanced" yes : ) and the examples you gave made me smile......they sound so similar to the calm and balance ( thanks) he brings to our relationship.....being in control of emotions and reactions is an important one for me ( which is kind of hypocritical of me actually since most of the time I'm "emoting" all over the place about something LOL between menopause and just being an emotional person to begin with, I love the fact that he can embrace all that from me but not get wrapped up in it either... does that make sense? ) anyway thanks for your post. smiles Thank you very much, Cyntilating. Glad someone else knows exactly what I mean. I'm much like you describe ("emoting all over the place," LOL). I can't help it, it's my personality. I'm a Cancer, what can I say?[;)] But since we are so often at the mercy of emotions, that's why it's so vital to serve One who is not. It does create that perfect balance. It's not like Master and I are so different that we clash. It's like He gives me what I lack and vice versa. Yin, yang, the whole bit, ya know? Glad my post made sense and I also had to laugh when I read back through my examples. I'm sure there are many more I forgot............luci {It's like He gives me what I lack and vice versa. Yin, yang, the whole bit, ya know?} I sure do [;)] signed> the one standing in the greeting card section of the store...reading a birthday card with tears streaming down my face...lol... groan.... and he's the one standing behind me..grinning and growling in my ear " save those bodily fluids..I will need them later"> so that I crack up and forget what the tears were all about... is that what you mean by balance and yin and yang? grinz [;)] it's all good...sigh

MadRabbit -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 5:48:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: burningdesires47 I would say self control, by the examples jaxnsax gave, is not a desired trait at all. By the examples MadRabbit gave, perhaps not entirely a useless goal. But by the dictionary definition that I quoted above, if my will is to let my emotions sway my conscious decisions and my life, then that IS self control. If my will is to feel an emotion fully rather than shy away from them and shut them out then that IS self control. That means that self control IS flying off the handle and screaming and throwing things when I feel like it, it IS screwing every guy I want to when I feel like it, it IS drinking to excess when I feel like it, and it IS sleeping in til 3pm when I feel like it. Not that I do any of those things, because as much as I'd like to, my will is also to succeed at the goals I have in life, and those behaviors are not conducive to those goals. However, I STILL let my emotions rule me because that's who I am. I am EXCITED about my goals, and that DESIRE to reach them is what guides my decisions. How is that in any way bad? Well... 1. Allowing Emotion to overtake you breeds Irrational Thought and Irrational Thought often results in bad decisions. This is where the old folk wisdom comes from of "Never make a decision while angry". The worst decisions I have made have been when I was drunk on Anger, Rage, Lust, and Love. Anger and Rage often bring regrets. Lust makes people into fools. Love...well...the phrase "Tough Love" comes to mind. Sometimes Love keeps people from doing whats logically and rationally right for the person they love, because it "feels" wrong. As someone who is making decisions for myself and for another adult who I want to keep around, I dont consider myself to have that luxury. There is many ways to properly deal with Emotion as opposed to bottling it up or just letting it run hog wild with your mind. Talking about them, meditating, yoga, simple breathing exercises, or at the very least, self aware enough to reckonize them for what they are and how they are affecting you. But...perhaps that is where our philsophies differ. Allowing Emotion to competely rule me IS losing my Will, not my Will is allowing my Emotions to rule me. The latter comes off as...in all honesty...bullshit to me. 2. As I read this, the string of all too familar bullshit that has become a social cliche' comes to mind...."I dont drink because I have a problem. I drink because I choose to!" There is a fine line between the behaviors ruling you and you ruling the behaviors. As always, just my opinion

NControlofU -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 7:36:05 PM)
Self control means that I dont let others push my buttons and cause a reaction in me that I didn't intend or that goes against my better judgment or that I might regret later. I dont let the words or actions of any one else cause me to lower my standards for my personal conduct. I dont have control over what everyone else does or says but I do have control over how I choose to react to them or not. Self control is important to me in any relationship. If I feel that some one is bringing too much drama into my life or is acting up just to get a reaction out of me, I wont have anything more to do with them. I just dont need it. Its not worth it. The people I choose to have in my life add a positive element to it or they are out. I do lose my temper sometimes but I quickly figure out a way to defuse it and get my anger under control even if that means removing myself fromthe situation. quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Hardly a day passes it seems where at least one thread does not offer up some commentary on how a dominant must possess "self control"--he or she must master himself or herself before mastering others becomes even a possibility. What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship?

RRafe -> RE: What is self control? (9/9/2007 8:34:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NControlofU Self control means that I dont let others push my buttons and cause a reaction in me that I didn't intend or that goes against my better judgment or that I might regret later. I dont let the words or actions of any one else cause me to lower my standards for my personal conduct. I dont have control over what everyone else does or says but I do have control over how I choose to react to them or not. Self control is important to me in any relationship. If I feel that some one is bringing too much drama into my life or is acting up just to get a reaction out of me, I wont have anything more to do with them. I just dont need it. Its not worth it. The people I choose to have in my life add a positive element to it or they are out. I do lose my temper sometimes but I quickly figure out a way to defuse it and get my anger under control even if that means removing myself fromthe situation. quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Hardly a day passes it seems where at least one thread does not offer up some commentary on how a dominant must possess "self control"--he or she must master himself or herself before mastering others becomes even a possibility. What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? Amen.

burningdesires47 -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 7:49:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Well... 1. Allowing Emotion to overtake you breeds Irrational Thought and Irrational Thought often results in bad decisions. This is where the old folk wisdom comes from of "Never make a decision while angry". There is many ways to properly deal with Emotion as opposed to bottling it up or just letting it run hog wild with your mind... Talking about them, meditating, yoga, simple breathing exercises, or at the very least, self aware enough to reckonize them for what they are and how they are affecting you. Who said that living WITH my emotions means they overtake me? The self-control that I described IS EXACTLY one of those many ways. In fact, the example you JUST gave, about being self aware, recognizing them and how they affect me is exactly what I said. The self control you are describing is bottling it up. So by your own logic, your version of self control is not desirable. quote: Allowing Emotion to competely rule me IS losing my Will, not my Will is allowing my Emotions to rule me. The latter comes off as...in all honesty...bullshit to me. So, because I said that emotion doesn't completely rule me, and therefore I'm not losing my will... It's bullshit? Wha? What kind of intolerant rudeness brought about that kind of attack? I'm having a lively discussion here and you're starting to attack me personally. Sounds like you're not in control of your self-righteous anger. Oh wait, is that an emotion? Better go meditate. I'm going to go ENJOY my breakfast (which by the way since pleasure and happiness are emotions, I'm allowed to do because I will it so.)

liorsnava -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 9:53:11 AM)
so does that mean, if my Master ( who is also my Husband and a father ) gets upset, or angry ....because He is human... He is not a good Master/Husband/Father ? we ALL have flaws... we ALL have stresses in our lives that sometimes take over, and the end result is usually a release of some sort...but it does not mean He has no "self control" it simply means he is human...above everything else...

YourhandMyAss -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 10:26:01 AM)
Because I will not put my life and my submission into the hands of someone who can't or won't manage their life. Part of being a responcible adult means doing things in your life that needs done. Someone who refuses to manage their life and take care of their shit wouldn't have their life in control enough to control me. I wouldn't respect them, and I won't submit to them. quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Hardly a day passes it seems where at least one thread does not offer up some commentary on how a dominant must possess "self control"--he or she must master himself or herself before mastering others becomes even a possibility. What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship?

CreativeDominant -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 12:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Hardly a day passes it seems where at least one thread does not offer up some commentary on how a dominant must possess "self control"--he or she must master himself or herself before mastering others becomes even a possibility. What does it mean to have "self control"? Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? For me, it means being in a reasonable level of control over my thought processes, my actions, my emotions. Reasonable gives leeway for those times when you are going to be uptight and leeway for those times when maintaining control is damn near impossible. Getting angry over a submissive breaking a plate by accident is an example of poor self-control. Getting angry and knowing to step back and think about the best approach to the problem in the proper manner when a submissive breaks a plate deliberately is good self-control. Wanting to beat the man who molested my daughter under the guise of an uncle's concern and building up of her esteem and telling him that if he ever comes near her again that I will is an example of an understandable loss of self-control, though not a complete loss. And, given everything, I have a feeling that if he did come near her again and I beat him, that even legally the judge would understand it. I might receive some punishment in terms of a fine but I think his judgment would include the word "justifiable". It is important to a D/s dynamic...any dynamic...because being unable to control yourself is one reason for the increase in abuse seen nowadays and the fracturing of many relationships. I cringe sometimes when I hear the way some people...who are so "madly in love" with each other speak to their partners. Calling them on something wrong in front of others...calling names...etc. Where is the control there?

MadRabbit -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 2:38:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: burningdesires47 quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Well... 1. Allowing Emotion to overtake you breeds Irrational Thought and Irrational Thought often results in bad decisions. This is where the old folk wisdom comes from of "Never make a decision while angry". There is many ways to properly deal with Emotion as opposed to bottling it up or just letting it run hog wild with your mind... Talking about them, meditating, yoga, simple breathing exercises, or at the very least, self aware enough to reckonize them for what they are and how they are affecting you. Who said that living WITH my emotions means they overtake me? The self-control that I described IS EXACTLY one of those many ways. In fact, the example you JUST gave, about being self aware, recognizing them and how they affect me is exactly what I said. The self control you are describing is bottling it up. So by your own logic, your version of self control is not desirable. quote: Allowing Emotion to competely rule me IS losing my Will, not my Will is allowing my Emotions to rule me. The latter comes off as...in all honesty...bullshit to me. So, because I said that emotion doesn't completely rule me, and therefore I'm not losing my will... It's bullshit? Wha? What kind of intolerant rudeness brought about that kind of attack? I'm having a lively discussion here and you're starting to attack me personally. Sounds like you're not in control of your self-righteous anger. Oh wait, is that an emotion? Better go meditate. I'm going to go ENJOY my breakfast (which by the way since pleasure and happiness are emotions, I'm allowed to do because I will it so.) Your putting words in my mouth and making assumptions. I never once said anything about "bottling up emotions". You just didnt understand my orginal statement and took it the wrong way. For clairfication, my ideal was making Emotions a source of information for the Will and not directly influencing the Will itself. No where did I say anything about bottling them up. Nor was that a personal attack, but rather my opinion in regards to someone who would say "I am in control because I choose to let myself be out of control". Its circular logic. However, your post is littered with them (as well as erroneous assumptions on my mental state while writting this based on how you perceived my words and not how I actually wrote them) Which is also where the contradiction lies. Now you say you dont allow your emotions to overtake you, but before you said... quote: ORIGINAL: burningdesires47 That means that self control IS flying off the handle and screaming and throwing things when I feel like it I fail to see how self control is allowing one's self to enter into a state where they are not in control. It seems to be more..."doing whatever you want". And "doing whatever you want" would fall under the definition of freedom and not the defintion of control. If I simply just did whatever I "felt like it", I would hardly call myself being "self controlled". I would call "self control", at the very least, doing whats best for the situation despite my own "feelings" I disagree with the premise of your thesis because it takes the standpoints that "I choose therefore I am in control". If mere autonomy was the qualifier for self control, then naturally we all have self control and this discussion is fruitless. However, in light of your apparent instability and the fact that you are f not ollowing my logic or directly dealing with the points themselves (or even putting much thought into this), but rather the comments you took personal offense to, I am not interested in contining this discussion until you can communicate in some rational and calm way. (In fact, your last half of the post really tends to really discredit your creditability about being able to lecture on what "self control" is)

domiguy -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 2:58:35 PM)
Christ....everyone is different...I think the best you can hope for, especially out here, is someone who will never place you directly in harms way. Emotions? What fun is keeping all of your emotions under wraps?....I love to laugh...Some times so hard where you can't catch your breath or start to cry....Then there is sadness or anger...Why keep everything hidden? As long as everything is cool and no one is going to get hurt. I fly by the seat of my fucking pants....You think we are going to zig...We zag. I never have dug predictability....Spontaneity reigns supreme in my book...To each their own. *This message has been approved by the Domiguy trolling for pussy association.

Mercnbeth -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 3:14:50 PM)
quote: What does it mean to have "self control"? It means that you have made an intelligent consideration regarding the consequence of your action prior to initiating the action, and have made a determination that the consequence was justified and acceptable. quote: Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? Consequences for actions is a fundamental consideration for any relationship D/s or M/s considerations notwithstanding; maintaining "self control" is no different.

Aswad -> RE: What is self control? (9/10/2007 3:21:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 What does it mean to have "self control"? Being able to act with restraint, despite a desire not to restrain oneself. Also, being able to do something one does not want to, because one has decided to. quote: Why is it important to a D/s or M/s relationship? The former sense allows one to consider consequences, and balance them rationally, rather than opting for short-term gratification, or avoiding unpleasant consequences in the short term at the expense of worse consequences in the long term. The latter sense, allows you to enact discipline despite compassion, or otherwise stay the right course even when it is hard, allowing (among other things) long-term consistency. Health, al-Aswad.

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