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RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 3:14:04 PM

Helios001

Posts: 5
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline

Hm.

Very interesting. I like -- and agree with -- a lot of the ideas posited already.

Here's the thing, though.

I think it's very important to diferentiate between "ignoring" and "deprivation." Because DEPRIVING a submissive of something -- of contact -- is very different than ignoring them.

When it comes to deprivation, I have in mind such things as solitary confinement (of her person), especially as it relates to "being ignored," as it were.

Basically, I see "ignoring" as a passive activity that is mostly ineffectual, whereas "deprivation" is an active activity that can have a much better positive impact on a submissive.

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 21

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 4:23:42 PM

Redoubt

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/11/2007
Status: offline

when I was starting out, withdrawal was a tool I used, to not only punish her... but to sort out the own mess in my head. I initially didn't start off setting a time frame, it was : you will wait here til I return, and I'd walk around the block, sit in my car... just alone time. It was almost as bad a punishment for myself, after all - this dynamic was somewhat new to me and I was fascinated with the endless options that were being presented. It would never last overnight as I had the wise words of my father: "Never go to bed angry" ringing in my head. We would then talk, I would explain what her punishment would be, let her know I forgave her, gave her a hug and then made up the ole fashioned way.

Over time, I realized that there were more effective ways to go through the confession, absolution, redemption cycle, both for me and her... and withdrawal seemed to be a less decisive and more wishy washy punishment that confused her, and made me feel like crap. But in the early days, I didnt want to call my mentor and say "She did this, what should I do?" - pride of the young man, his ruin....

I would say: it's better to take it softly to start with, especially if you're coming to terms with things, but make it a specific time frame, never overnight. (Isolation/withdrawl that is - The punishment for her to sleep at the foot of your bed can be very effective - even if its just for an hour)

I realized I pretty much paraphrased what LA was saying, but hell - there are worse things in life :)

(in reply to Helios001)

Post #: 22

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 4:38:51 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

How much better if people let things calm down, talked over where things went wrong, why they went wrong, worked on the SOURCE of the issue (because disobedience almost always is a sign of a deeper problem), and used it as a way to become closer, more intimate and a better team together?

It works well, doesn't it? :)

What withdrawing does is:

Eliminates the sub who "acts up" to get attention
Gets the sub's attention immediately.
Makes them THINK about their actions.

The Dom/me knows when to open up any discourse about the situation to discuss it and it's NOT determined by when the submissive thinks it should be.

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I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 23

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 4:50:25 PM

Cyntilating

Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helios001

Hm.

Very interesting. I like -- and agree with -- a lot of the ideas posited already.

Here's the thing, though.

I think it's very important to diferentiate between "ignoring" and "deprivation." Because DEPRIVING a submissive of something -- of contact -- is very different than ignoring them.

When it comes to deprivation, I have in mind such things as solitary confinement (of her person), especially as it relates to "being ignored," as it were.

Basically, I see "ignoring" as a passive activity that is mostly ineffectual, whereas "deprivation" is an active activity that can have a much better positive impact on a submissive.

[
I think it's very important to diferentiate between "ignoring" and "deprivation." Because DEPRIVING a submissive of something -- of contact -- is very different than ignoring them.]

good point Helios..
I agree...there is a difference.

ignoring = go away, youve made me mad and I dont want to deal with you .

deprivation = this is what you did...this is how I feel about it...it is unacceptable and THIS will be the consequence for this amt of time..

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Helios001)

Post #: 24

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 4:58:50 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

~ FR ~

I wanted to also note, however, that many submissives who are upset about something withdraw from their dominants, which is also unhealthy. In many ways, it's a way of "punishing" the dominant for doing whatever he/she did which upset the submissive. I actually think that practice is more common than a dominant ignoring a submissive in punishment. I hear about it all the time - "Oh I just shut down when I'm upset. I can't even talk to him." In both directions, I find the behavior to be destructive.

(in reply to Cyntilating)

Post #: 25

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:07:03 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

I couldn't agree with you more, LA... very eloquently put. I also agree with servantheart that it leads to fear of openly communicating with the dominant... and ownedgirlie's Master in that it would exacerbate any feelings of insecurity or abandonment.

All told, I believe it sends a message loud and clear that the dominant is only interested in actively participating in the relationship as long as he isn't inconvenienced.

While I don't really believe in unconditional love (or for those whose relationships don't involve "love", unconditional acceptance) I do think that successful relationships need to have something as close to that as possible, as well as a determination and willingness to face and address issues. Sending the message, "piss me off and I won't want to be with you" isn't exactly something that would inspire trust in a sub's feelings of security within a relationship.

Of course we all have our "breaking point". I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be use of time to step back, cool off and reflect... but it would really all depend upon what the threshold of that action would be.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 26

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:18:20 PM

InkedMaster

Posts: 342
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I for one find the topic of punishment an interesting one as I find there are more opinions on the subject than I have Valium in my pocket when I go to Chucky Cheese. Personaly if I want to see my slave endure a Corporal scene or to put her through some intense torment, I'll do it just because I want to, I get off on seeing her suffer for me and besides it's just plain cool. But that being said and using a form of punishment for a behavior modification, wether it be physical or mental leaves me with this thought "where did I go wrong? where in your training did I fail you?" To me, if she fails that means I have failed her, and that thought kills me. If there is a situation that needs correcting, I talk it out, explain it, listen to her and come to a solution. Course I'm just a dumb ass Biker, so your milage may vary! (smirk)

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(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 27

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:20:37 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

The gist of this is pretty clear.

Ignoring as 'punishment' because one is incapable of adequately addressing feelings and behavior issues, is not healthy.

Ignoring as punishment, in the context of an otherwise healthy and communicative relationship can be one of many useful tools.

Not every submissive/slave will respond positively to ignoring as punishment. Not every dominant will be comfortable making use of this tool.

Ignoring doesn't need to equate with full blown 'banishment' for days or weeks. It can simply be a ten minute cut in contact, followed by an explaination. One could say this is little different than going to separate corners to regroup, or telling a submissive to go to a corner for ten minutes.

I dont' consider taking a moment to calm down during heated discussions or destructive activities to be related to ingoring as punishment. I would call such actions to be "cooling off."

Stephan

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(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 28

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:27:16 PM

Cyntilating

Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline

toservez

I am in a relationship where physical punishment doesn't happen... punishment, itself isn't really necessary...
I hate to displease and try very hard to listen and do what is expected of me and what will please him..
He knows this and observed very quickly that my mistakes that happen are just that> mistakes. and that I generally am extremely upset at myself! more than he might even be. I am an adult, I know what is right and wrong, if I honestly make an error in judgement ( or forget, thank you very much menopausal moments) or sometimes I just fukup...sigh..it wasnt intentional and we TALK about it.... he asks me and we talk..and I tell him what happened and why...and we work through it... That is always his first course of action about most things.. talking and listening ( for both of us ) ..

acting out> is something entirely different..
displeasing on purpose or to manipulate...
and at the beginning of our relationship he made it clear that>
that is not something that will be tolerated..
He doesn't use physical means to punish..His feeling is that it messes with the headspace of the submissive if the physical is used as pleasure as well as punishment..and so He said> purposeful manipulative disobedience would be responded to with the command to leave. leave his presence..
10 years later> I have never found out if that would really happen or under what conditions and to what extent & do not intend to find out lol.... I do feel ( knowing him the way I do ) that he still would talk about it..listen and consider, before making that decision.. and never with haste or loss of control ( ie anger, immaturity, rage or spite ) ..

and as I posted already under Helios's post> there is a difference between ignoring as in "sending them away"
and depriving someone of something that will correct the behavior..

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Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 29

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:43:01 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Ignoring as 'punishment' because one is incapable of adequately addressing feelings and behavior issues, is not healthy.

Ignoring as punishment, in the context of an otherwise healthy and communicative relationship can be one of many useful tools.

I agree with this completely.

The only context I have found it to be effective in my experiences is when I sit down, express my disapointment, tell her what she has done wrong and then tell her "Now I am going to not talk to you or bother with you for X amount of time so you can think about what you have done.".

Then when "X amount of time is up" we talk some more, purely in a positive and constructive way.

I have screwed up in the past by :

1. Being emotional
2. Not explaining why exactly I am ignoring her before ignoring her so she is not freaking out the entire time.
3. Not setting some kind of time limit.

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(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 30

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:48:56 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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The closest to this I ever get to this, is just saying "You need to leave me alone for a while.. I might be impressed if you can tell me why I'm upset at you-when I'm finished."

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Post #: 31

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:52:35 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Interesting post.....Ignoring as punishment. I couldn't help but laugh as all of the women chimed in that they dislike this type of behavior, when they are the ones that perfected the art form...

"Hey Kathy, have you spoke to Maureen lately?" Maureen Glares at her friend..."I'm not speaking to her ever ever again....She wore the exact same dress that I had on to Nicky's reception...What a bitch!"

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(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 32

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:58:00 PM

corsetgirl

Posts: 824
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

Being ignored does not solve anything between a dom and a sub. My first ex-dom did that to me for two weeks and being new to this lifestyle, I honestly believed that we were finished. I believe if there is a problem, then things should be addressed immediately and not allow things to fester because there could be misunderstandings that lead to a breakdown of communication.

< Message edited by corsetgirl -- 9/11/2007 5:59:48 PM >

(in reply to subsa)

Post #: 33

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 5:59:07 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

when i was talking to potential dominants, one man ignored me. at a time when i was going through some rough emotional times, and had asked him specifically to please have daily contact with me.

that was one of the reasons he and i are not together.

kitten, whose Sir has NEVER ignored her, even when we argued....

(in reply to subsa)

Post #: 34

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 6:02:40 PM

arayofsunshine55

Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline

Well not big on punishment. Sometimes one of us needs space. That's pretty normal between adults and is not IMO ignoring. Ignoring me pisses me off. So in that way is highly counterproductive. Cause you know what? I can withdraw as well. I can live my life without you too. It's not worth playing with.

_____________________________

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Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 35

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 6:03:38 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I refuse to do ignoreing as a punishment. It never solves anything and I am usualy worse behaved than ever when they come back. My first dominant was a fan of ignoreing me and he never really seemed to understand why he came back to a sub that was worse than before. One time he was like oh I chose not to call for a few days cause I didn't feel like dealing with you.

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 36

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 6:06:54 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: arayofsunshine55

It's not worth playing with.

It certainly appears to be worth playing with...

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Post #: 37

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 6:12:12 PM

arayofsunshine55

Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline

I suppose that is true if what one is interested in is my anger. Or if one doesn't really care to be in relatonship with me. But then, we don't do punishment. And we both want to be in this for the long haul. And no matter what other women do, I don't ignore him.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 38

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 6:17:51 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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Dammt woman!!! I was referring to your bod....Christ can't you just take a fucking compliment without making me spell it out.....U...R....HAWT....(Domiguy places aray on Block)

Once properly ignored she will cave to my advances.

Edited to add....Hijack over..Please continue on about the merits of giving someone the dreaded "silent treatment."

< Message edited by domiguy -- 9/11/2007 6:19:15 PM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Ignoring as a punishment - 9/11/2007 7:04:47 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

Ignoring me is a hard limit. For me it is damaging and the damage eventually will be permanent. So frankly if they wanna play 'i'm gonna go pout and ignore you' then they can find someone else to play that game.

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 40

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