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Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 10:09:00 AM

feline

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Is it ever ok for a Master to lie?

Thanks in advance,

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 10:14:29 AM

stormsfate

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I don't think is "ok" for anyone to lie, but that isn't reality.

[s]We all lie...[/s]

(maybe I'm over generalizing...I'm sure there are some who are brutally honest in all they say). Most of us lie, even if it is just to say "no, you don't look like you've been crying" or "no, those pants don't make you look big".

I'm not sure what point you are trying to get at. Are you talking in general or with regard to something in particular? In short, I don't think its okay to lie, but some lies are more acceptable to me than others, if that makes sense. If my owner were to lie to a little old lady and tell her how wonderful she is looking, when in truth she looks at death's door, the I would find that acceptable. Does that make sense?

f

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 10:20:55 AM

oceanprincess

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No, I don't feel that it's ok for a Master to lie, or for a sub or slave to lie to her Master either. I had a situation yesterday, and I was going to drive a friend of mine and his daughters off with their Mom about an hour away. Well, I would have had to drive my Master's pride and joy, his car, to be able to help out my friend and his kids. Well, my Master called and asked me what I was up to, and I asked him if it was ok to take my friend and his girls for the hour drive, and I said no. So I didn't do it. I called my friend, who was of course mad at me, and told him that I wasn't going to be able to drive him in my Master's car, but that I could drive his car, my friend's car, to take them, or he could drive and I would just make sure to keep an eye out on the road to help him drive. Well, he said, no thanks, I will just have to find someone else. So then he hung up on me, and it will probably be a while before we talk again, and that's fine.

But I wasn't going to help out a friend, if it meant lying to my Master about it. I easily could have, since my Master is away in another country on business, but I didn't. Yes, he could lie to me as well about possibly sleeping with someone else while he's there, but I trust him, and I don't think that he would. I know that I would never cheat on him, because I love him, and I would wish that he wouldn't cheat on me either.

ocean

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 11:37:17 AM

lonewolf05

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it is NOT ok for ANYONE ANYWHERE to EVER lie!!!!!!

the wolf

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 11:40:20 AM

lonewolf05

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quote:

~~We all lie...~~

excuse me? nuh uh. "I" have not told a lie since i was nigh on 8 year old!

the wolf

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 11:58:10 AM

feline

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fate here's a scenero for you;

And let's say your working on building a trusting relationship with this person. They tell you they don't do something. No big deal, no real reason for telling you, but they do. Then a time later you find that they are doing exactly what they volunteered to you that they weren't.

Is a lie not still a lie? (please let's just stick with the lie issue right now

)

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 12:11:29 PM

perverseangelic

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Yes, it's ok for a dominant person to lie in the same cases it's ok for a vanilla person to lie.

I was trying to come up with a way to outline situations where I believe lies are ok, but it didn't work. The best I could do was give examples.

It is ok to lie to questions like "Do I look ugly with this haircut?"

Things where being brutally honesty "You look like you fought a weed wacker" accomplishes nothing but hurting someone else while getting you nothing.

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 2:38:27 PM

stormsfate

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

quote:

~~We all lie...~~

excuse me? nuh uh. "I" have not told a lie since i was nigh on 8 year old!

the wolf

Errrr...that's why I struck out that sentence and qualified it with "most people".

Feline... I would not consider the scenario you outlined to be harmless, so I do not believe it would be ok.

For those of you who never, ever tell little white lies, I'm going to take you with me next time I need an honest opinion about an outfit or haircut

f

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 2:56:44 PM

CitizenWolf

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No, it isn't okay to lie.

And Feline if you want that image to show up in every one of your posts you should right click it and copy the properties into your signature instead of uploading it every time you post.

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 3:49:59 PM

lonewolf05

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

quote:

~~We all lie...~~

excuse me? nuh uh. "I" have not told a lie since i was nigh on 8 year old!

the wolf

Errrr...that's why I struck out that sentence and qualified it with "most people".

Feline... I would not consider the scenario you outlined to be harmless, so I do not believe it would be ok.

For those of you who never, ever tell little white lies, I'm going to take you with me next time I need an honest opinion about an outfit or haircut

f

by god if i could go with you i damn sure would........i LIKE to shop for things that are NEEDED.......not to just to spend money on stupid stuff. if an outfit looks like hell i would damn sure tell ya.

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 5:01:54 PM

mossy

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Feline: i have a question for you?
Is it ever OK for a Master to lie.....Because He is in a position of Authority?
Or is it just OK for a Master to ever lie, period?

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 5:08:36 PM

lonewolf05

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nobody nowhere at any time should ever lie.
-"I" ever catch anyone lie to ME they best hope their hospital insurance is paid up!

NO ONE should lie to anyone about anything.

authority figures are the ones that are supposed to..set the example.......

i am not selling MY soul just coz 99% of the crowd i am in does it.

wolf

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 7:06:36 PM

perfection20005

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I think little "white lies" are almost impossible not to say. But I don't think its right to lie about anything to anyone. This is espically true of a Master/slave relationship. Honesty is of the utmost importance, once that is betrayed, its hard to regain it.

perfection

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 8:09:54 PM

DesertRat

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I don't want to sound like I live by some ironclad warrior code of honor...I most surely don't...but I don't think lying is ever right. I never lied or even fibbed to my former slave, and we had a wonderful relationship that disintegrated due to another problem that had nothing to do with trust or betrayal.

On the other hand, as an EMT, I am trained to sometimes be...I dunno what to call it...reassuringly evasive, maybe...if a patient asks me something like "how bad is it?" or "am I gonna be okay?". Is that lying? I suppose it is, but it's done to keep things as positive as possible.

Bob

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 8:29:18 PM

onceburned

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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
It is ok to lie to questions like "Do I look ugly with this haircut?"

Things where being brutally honesty "You look like you fought a weed wacker" accomplishes nothing but hurting someone else while getting you nothing.

You took the words from me before I even tried to type them.

The intention of a person seems to matter, in deciding whether a lie is harmless or not. If the intent is to cause harm to another person, then the lie is bad. But if the intent is to avoid hurting someone, then it seems okay.

Brutal honesty is simply honest brutality.

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/16/2005 11:26:05 PM

MasterBenedict

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I think that it depends... If he (your Master) is lying about something ABOUT you, then. NO WAY!!
If, on the othe hand, he is simply lying to 'conceal' a suprisxe, then BY ALL MEANS!"

Hope that helps.

MB

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/17/2005 1:12:31 AM

lonewolf05

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Rat Sir?

if i am EVER in an emergency vehicle and i ask...even if i am dying........

DO NOT lie to me. i have the right to know my condition, since i am the only one able to speak in my case. i have no one to write in that blank for next-of-kin. my elders are dead, no siblings no spouse no kids

i am alone out here.... i HAVE TO KNOW Sir.

thanks wolf
p/s
yes what You asked. it IS a lie. no matter the intention. it is a lie.

< Message edited by lonewolf05 -- 7/17/2005 1:13:39 AM >

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/17/2005 6:40:01 AM

conflicted

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i dont think it's good to lie.......if a friend asks me if they look big in an outfit (and they do) i tell them...very tactfully.

Feline.....

i think if He told you He wasnt doing something, and this "something" doesnt impact directly in your relationship with Him, then you shouldnt stress too much about it.

OR

Perhaps His reason for doing this was too tell you indirectly, that He is doing it... so if you ever found out, He can go back and make up a scenario that led to the instance of you becoming aware of His actions.

OR

perhaps it was something He was intending to keep from you, and the reason He told you He wasnt doing it...was to test your reaction.

i think (and no direspect intended here!) Master's are funny creatures, and there always seems to be a reason as to why They do what They do, not always ones that are seen immediately by us.

Hope i made some sense, after re-reading this post....
i nearly confused myself!!!

take care

n

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/17/2005 7:12:36 AM

Methos

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I personally believe in honesty and I have not found much reason why a Master would need to lie to his slave, even “for her benefit” such as the kind white lie.

Often times, as suggested, you don’t need to lie as long as you are careful on how you phrase your truth. However even that, not lying, is not necessarily being entirely truthful. For example, if you ask a man if he smokes and he says no, failing to mention that he quit three weeks ago. Then one day you come home and he’s out on the deck smoking, was it a lie? Technically no, but one would assume that with such a question a person would also offer the truth that they did develop a habit and it’s possible that the habit return.

I have a strong believe and expectation in honor and honesty, especially in my personally relationships. Life is not black and white regarding most things and I think this is one of them. I also believe it’s unnecessary and not dishonest to be careful in how you speak your mind.

In a personal relationship, I think it’s fair to expect the “spirit” of honesty. If we are not honest with each other, then trust becomes very difficult. Although there are situations in life when complete honesty is probably not the best approach, I would think our personal relationship typically is not one of those situations.

-Methos

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RE: Issues of trust - 7/17/2005 7:47:35 AM

DesertRat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

Rat Sir?

if i am EVER in an emergency vehicle and i ask...even if i am dying........

DO NOT lie to me. i have the right to know my condition, since i am the only one able to speak in my case. i have no one to write in that blank for next-of-kin. my elders are dead, no siblings no spouse no kids

i am alone out here.... i HAVE TO KNOW Sir.

thanks wolf
p/s
yes what You asked. it IS a lie. no matter the intention. it is a lie.

I tend to agree with you, wolf. I'm a rookie, and still working it out in my head and heart. To use your scenario: If I were to be attending you in an emergency vehicle and you were to ask me if you were dying, I would be expected to say something like "we're gonna do everything we can to help you." If I am ever confronted with a situation like that, I honestly don't know what I will say. Won't know till it happens. I am not a pro...just a lowly First Responder serving my volunteer fire department.

Training notwithstanding, I still think it's wrong for people in a loving relationship, even one in the early stages, to lie to each other. But I suppose there could be a certain situational subjectivity to it.

Bob

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