RE: Random thoughts

RE: Random thoughts (Full Version)

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mmb1 -> RE: Random thoughts (9/15/2007 7:00:30 PM)
lol, if you have to think too hard about all of this, I would run too.

RRafe -> RE: Random thoughts (9/15/2007 7:01:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mmb1 lol, if you have to think too hard about all of this, I would run too. There's really nothing quite so annoying as a navel-gazing narcciscist.

mmb1 -> RE: Random thoughts (9/15/2007 7:02:26 PM)
lmao

mmb1 -> RE: Random thoughts (9/15/2007 7:04:37 PM)
I didn't know it takes so much thought process to say not a gift, a gift etc, whatever it is, I say If it works for you accept it, embrace it and move on :)

YourShyPet -> RE: Random thoughts (9/15/2007 7:08:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 quote: ORIGINAL: YourShyPet I've found that the people who have problems with "give" "gift" are takers...and while I'm sure there are many people who are fine with the take... want the take... it doesn't exactly work for me... my Daddy is the only person I've ever felt submissive too... and yet he still had to wait for me to give it to him... had he attempted to "take" I would have slapped him down like a fly... he also had to give me his dominance I couldn't take or force it from him ... for us it boils down to an equal exchange of emotions and a bond... if it wasn't an equal exchange it would not work for us. a good way to look at it. I think this is the best for a healthy exchange for a long term relationship hijacking to Toot... going on 6 years strong... (giggles) most people think 6 years is long-term in D/s but to us.. we're still in the honeymoon phase... but then we both have come from past D/s relationships that were over a decade and a half long.

Focus50 -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 4:54:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YourShyPet I've found that the people who have problems with "give" "gift" are takers...and while I'm sure there are many people who are fine with the take... want the take... it doesn't exactly work for me... my Daddy is the only person I've ever felt submissive too... and yet he still had to wait for me to give it to him... had he attempted to "take" I would have slapped him down like a fly... he also had to give me his dominance I couldn't take or force it from him ... for us it boils down to an equal exchange of emotions and a bond... if it wasn't an equal exchange it would not work for us. Call it semantics but I have a problem with people implying that something I've taken the time and trouble to earn is actually a gift. So tell me; when you say your "Daddy is the only person I've ever felt submissive to", is that because he was just some random fella who got lucky when you felt like giving over this magical "gift of submission" to or was he someone who had and did what it took to earn your trust and respect etc, and everything that goes with it, including this "gift of submission"? And did you submit obligation free or was it to get something in return? If you were single, is it possible some vanilla could earn your "gift of submission" or was there a specific reason why your "gift" went to a dom? Lets face it, a sub can give her "gift" to anyone if there is no ulterior motive for who you choose.... I freely acknowledge that people we care for have special qualities to earn that status - I just loathe that term "gift" for such qualities because it sounds like unearned charity! This makes me a taker in your eyes....? <shrugs> And yet the rest of your post seems to support my own sentiments anyway.... Focus.

Bobkgin -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 5:06:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cyntilating Master uses the term " gift" sometimes when talking about my submission to Him.... when he says it, it is in the context of something he treasures about me and about Us.. I don't feel the need to tear it apart and dissect the term.. He calls my writing a gift, my massages a gift... my ability to feel others feelings, and anticipate his needs, a gift... my submission to him.. they are all from a place within me.... and the feeling of pride in me and appreciation for what it brings to our relationship comes from a place in him... so if he wants to use the term " zallllsbot" or gift or whatever.... its the feelings he is expressing, rather than the term, that I embrace anyway ... and when I hear others talking about it in their relationship> I focus on the feelings that must exist for them, rather than the term "gift". ...and I'm not really sure why it causes to much turmoil when brought up ... Some people see a gift as a obligation to give back. Some people want sub/slaves to think they are being done a favour by being allowed to serve. Some people do not want sub/slaves to feel they (the sub/slave) are special or capable of giving something special. Some people prefer prostitutes to loving companions. Some people ...

Babybass -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 6:00:22 AM)
I am not going to quote Focus here - because i agree with almost all that he has said!! I am submissive to my Master because that is the way i am - i do not know how else to be. It suits me to be submissive! And without his dominance my submission would be useless - they are two sides of the one coin!!! Opposite but equal! He is the only man that i have been submissive to - but it is His qualities as a Dominant that allow me to be a submissive. And if i did not respect and love Him i would not submit to Him - those are the unuttered conditions of my submission. And i do have expectations - i expect to be loved and respected in the way i need to be - if those conditions are not met in any relationship i would not stay!!

SirDraco7 -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 6:05:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tearfulsurrender I have a very strong dislike for the phrase "Gift of submission". I am not giving him anything that doesnt come naturally to me. Quite the opposite, I feel like what I give him sorely pales in comparison to all that he gives to me. He gives me his strength when i am weak; he gives me his courage when i am scared. He takes me physically to places i had once only fantasized about. I feel like I give him nearly nothing and it hurts my heart. What do you give a man who gives you everything? I give him the pieces of a heart broken long ago and a soul that has been shattered through years of distress. He deserves so much more than I can give. Each day I will strive harder to find something more to give the man who already has all of me. I personally like the term. it's the best term that fits what happens in my opinion. It might be true that in your case, he gives more back, but you still give him control. You choose to be with him and you choose to submit to him. Such are your choices, and as such if you allow him to control you, in a way it is your gift to him. Just how I see it anyways. :)

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 6:05:07 AM)
i have always thought "it is what it is"..................im not in to over evaluating stuff though...... if you call it a gift-so be it.....if you dont....so be it.......it is what is is......no more, no less

MistressLikeToys -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 6:13:23 AM)
Off Topic: I always love Domiguys posts rofl....inbetween his ramblings there is a normally well thought out point, and they make me giggle...kudos On Topic: It is so nice to see that others share the same basic opinion on the "sub gift" thing that I do. I am sure mine varies from alot of peoples, but everyone has a different one and thats what makes life go round. Maybe its because I know the world it not all chocolate and rose gardens but I have never understood that term. No, to me, submission is not a gift. It is something I earn, something you show me, something you do to be in my presence or you carry your ass out the door. I dont do it for dollars, I do it for my enjoyment...yes MY enjoyment. The sub is there for HIS/HER enjoyment, just because their enjoyment comes from me getting my pleasure does not make it a gift. If they didnt want to be there then they wouldnt. It is an exchange, something I take in exchange for what I give. Now, I am not into all the mushy love wanting to find my subbie hubbie in life kind of person either. Maybe that does effect my views. I am alone, I like alone, and I like uncomplicated and that is just me. Everyone has their own opinions and views, if you see if as a gift so be it. But, if I were to be approached by someone who portrayed it as a gift to me, something I should swoon over...out the door. A good example, if I task my submissive to do something that they do not wish to do, and I know they do not enjoy it (which makes it more fun right?), so they step back and balk. Do I hold them and say its ok, you have given me so much, let me show you some gratitude.....hell no! I say the door is over there, enjoy your life, dont call or write me again and then do my flight attendant impression (bye, bye bye now, bye, bye have a safe trip, bye bye now). I can tell you its happened, and more than once, and you know what....they dont leave! The do what they were tasked! Some gift...

Bobkgin -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 8:14:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLikeToys It is an exchange, something I take in exchange for what I give. I see. You take. You give. But nowhere do you say the submissive gives, the submissive takes. So if you are doing all the giving and taking, and the submissive is doing neither, how do you manage to call this an "exchange"?

YourShyPet -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 8:17:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: YourShyPet I've found that the people who have problems with "give" "gift" are takers...and while I'm sure there are many people who are fine with the take... want the take... it doesn't exactly work for me... my Daddy is the only person I've ever felt submissive too... and yet he still had to wait for me to give it to him... had he attempted to "take" I would have slapped him down like a fly... he also had to give me his dominance I couldn't take or force it from him ... for us it boils down to an equal exchange of emotions and a bond... if it wasn't an equal exchange it would not work for us. Call it semantics but I have a problem with people implying that something I've taken the time and trouble to earn is actually a gift. So tell me; when you say your "Daddy is the only person I've ever felt submissive to", is that because he was just some random fella who got lucky when you felt like giving over this magical "gift of submission" to or was he someone who had and did what it took to earn your trust and respect etc, and everything that goes with it, including this "gift of submission"? lol he hates it when people tell him he's lucky... oh yes he had to Earn my trust and respect... it took quite a long time, and the hoops I set out for him to jump thru were insane. And did you submit obligation free or was it to get something in return? Yes it's obligation free... it was and is for him... I never expected nor do I expect now to get anything that I didn't have before I submitted. If you were single, is it possible some vanilla could earn your "gift of submission" or was there a specific reason why your "gift" went to a dom? Lets face it, a sub can give her "gift" to anyone if there is no ulterior motive for who you choose.... There is a specific reason it went to him... vanilla... dom... the lable makes no difference.... it has to do with him not a title or a lifestyle. I freely acknowledge that people we care for have special qualities to earn that status - I just loathe that term "gift" for such qualities because it sounds like unearned charity! This makes me a taker in your eyes....? <shrugs> And yet the rest of your post seems to support my own sentiments anyway.... Focus. Just to clear things up for you we don't refer to it as a "gift"... but he does say that I Gave it too him... as opposed to him taking it.... gave in as chose too... that was the point I was trying to make... you just seemed to have missed it.

Stephann -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 8:18:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Some people see a gift as a obligation to give back. Some people want sub/slaves to think they are being done a favour by being allowed to serve. Some people do not want sub/slaves to feel they (the sub/slave) are special or capable of giving something special. Some people prefer prostitutes to loving companions. Some people ... Some people haven't learned how to set their ego aside a moment to consider the value of other people's thoughts. C. Darwin

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 8:32:37 AM)
It is like seeing the greatness in someone beyond all the bs and respecting them for it.

Bobkgin -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 8:56:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Some people see a gift as a obligation to give back. Some people want sub/slaves to think they are being done a favour by being allowed to serve. Some people do not want sub/slaves to feel they (the sub/slave) are special or capable of giving something special. Some people prefer prostitutes to loving companions. Some people ... Some people haven't learned how to set their ego aside a moment to consider the value of other people's thoughts. (says the gentleman with the big bolded letters) Would you be referring to the sub/slave/d/m who sees what a sub/slave gives as a "gift"? It is not like this thread is about people who criticize others for -not- seeing submission as a gift. The OP makes very clear this is about her disagreement with those who -do- see it as a gift. So perhaps you'll answer Cyndi's question: why do some people need to criticize the idea that submission is a gift?

Bobkgin -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 9:07:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 It is like seeing the greatness in someone ... and respecting them for it. Well said, Latex. I know I could never make myself as vulnerable as my partners have been with me. Trusting anyone that much is beyond me, and I do not see that changing. In that sense, I see myself as a coward, fearing to trust anyone so much as that. Which means my partners had buckets of courage/faith/love/trust more than I will ever have. How can I not respect them for what they have made of themselves? How can I not see that the exchange between their trust and mine is so out-of-balance that I am getting their trust virtually for free? Their trust in me is a gift. They are instructing me about how deep trust/love/faith can go. And while I cannot follow in their footsteps, I can apply what I learn to what I do. Their lives, their well-being is more valuable than my own. The species doesn't have enough people who can love and trust as deeply as my partners (and many like them) that it can afford to lose any of them.

Stephann -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 9:44:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin (says the gentleman with the big bolded letters) Would you be referring to the sub/slave/d/m who sees what a sub/slave gives as a "gift"? It is not like this thread is about people who criticize others for -not- seeing submission as a gift. The OP makes very clear this is about her disagreement with those who -do- see it as a gift. So perhaps you'll answer Cyndi's question: why do some people need to criticize the idea that submission is a gift? My eyes just aren't as good as they used to be, perhaps, but it's likely I've been using this font in a time before you learned enter an html link address. I could have sworn you were comparing people who don't consider submission as a gift, to people who prefer prostitutes to healthy relationships. As for your questions, I answered them in an earlier posts. Just because you don't see yourself being quoted, doesn't mean the ideas haven't already been addressed. Stephan

Bobkgin -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 10:11:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann So perhaps you'll answer Cyndi's question: why do some people need to criticize the idea that submission is a gift? I could have sworn you were comparing people who don't consider submission as a gift, to people who prefer prostitutes to healthy relationships. I offered an assortment of reasons, including that one. quote: As for your questions, I answered them in an earlier posts. Just because you don't see yourself being quoted, doesn't mean the ideas haven't already been addressed. I do not see the connection between what you wrote and what Cyndi wrote: quote: ORIGINAL: Cyntillating ...and I'm not really sure why it causes to much turmoil when brought up ... To which I responded: quote: ORIGINAL: Bobkgin Some people see a gift as a obligation to give back. Some people want sub/slaves to think they are being done a favour by being allowed to serve. Some people do not want sub/slaves to feel they (the sub/slave) are special or capable of giving something special. Some people prefer prostitutes to loving companions. Some people ... Now why wouldn't the above groups of individuals create turmoil whenever the "gift of submission" topic is raised? And if not them, then who is generating the turmoil, in your opinion? Are those who want to discuss the topic (such as the OP) generating the turmoil by raising the topic in the first place? Should this be a banned topic?

Stephann -> RE: Random thoughts (9/16/2007 10:59:39 AM)
As I pointed out, it's a conceptual divide, usually founded in feelings with rhetoric to assert one's position, vice an intellectual theory with established proof. Simply put, people approach relationships from different points of views, with vastly different needs. Some people feel submission needs to be a gift, others feel it needs to be integral. I'm in the latter camp, while you are clealy in the former. Declaring that anyone who doesn't agree with you, is approaching an emotional relationship from a perspective you do not agree with, to be on par with a prostitute/client relationship, is rather childish though, and hardly conducive to any form of polite discussion. Nobody is saying you have to agree with, or even like the ideas presented. I'm saying, as I've suggested to you in the past, that healthy debates don't stem from throwing stones. Put yours down, and you might find the turmoil factor reduced. The Not-So-Gentle Man With the Bold Letters

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