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ORIGINAL: angelic

~Fast reply~ Ya know, a person can be so fucked up they do consent to abuse... does not change anything.. it is still abuse...and i do not give a rats ass what color you color it.... or how loudly a person screams 'but it's consentual'.....it does not make the Master any less insane or the 'slave' any less fucked up. 

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


I like the way that you describe what no limits means to you, Celeste. 

What do you consider to be personal boundaries?

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Having seen how some people report what I've said, I'll take that with a sizable grain of salt.

Quite... (snipping for brevity)

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ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings angelic,

i was simply stating that daddysprop repeating her beliefs on no limits over different threads in and of itself is not argument mongering, or trying to get attention, which i thought you meant that she was trying to do in the first post of yours i responded to. i apologize if i misunderstood you.

greetings madrabbit,

i have made up my mind. i do not consider his doing things that threaten my life or health requiring that i defend myself. i would not and do not defend myself from him on those things. i did not enter into the relationship expecting that those things would not happen, or thinking that it was necessary to defend myself from that kind of action. therefore, i did not enter into a relationship with someone that i have to defend myself from, and i did not enter into the relationship with the understanding that it would not involve threats to my life or health...i do not consider those threats things that i need to defend myself from, where he is concerned. the reason i might defend myself from those threats from another source and not from him have to do with the fact that i chose to give him complete control because i felt he would use it wisely (as xoxi and i were discussing before). using it wisely, to me, does not mean not threatening my life or health. i do not WANT to defend myself from threats to my life or health where he is concerned.

on top of that, i should probably warn you that i am not a logical person. i don't have much use for logic (usually) and i do not proof my opinions for their logic. i simply speak from my beliefs and experience, and my life itself does not conform to any "logic" that i know of. last i checked, being a logical human being was not required to post on this forum. i apologize if i missed the memo.

respectfully,
annabelle.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Edited to Add : I also fail to understand why I am not making myself clear in this thread.

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Having seen how some people report what I've said, I'll take that with a sizable grain of salt.

Quite... (snipping for brevity)

I had a feeling the situation was not as cut and dried as described, and after hearing Props describe her situation a bit further, I felt that feeling confirmed.

Submittous, you, Celeste and Annabelle ... I'm hearing similar concepts being described in different ways.

But the theme is there: being free from the Moral Majority (BDSM Chapter) is a key right many of us insist upon.

I keep hearing the same Vanilla arguments from the other side: "oh a woman cannot consent to being tied up and whipped unless she is legally incompetent", etc.

From my point of view, they are having a devil of a time distinguishing between potential and reality, and how potential is turned into reality.

Does my heart good to see so many defending their right to consent.

There's some good company here

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ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Edited to Add : I also fail to understand why I am not making myself clear in this thread.

lack of life experience?

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
It is my honest opinion that a Master in his own perspective not realizing boundaries and not respecting boundaries even if the slave has the mentality that she will not enforce them is dangerous.

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This is what is always excluded from these discussions. The slaves share their "no limit" mentality and perspective of the relationship, but the counterpart to that that keeps this is in check is never mentioned.

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Well, not 'always' excluded. I did address this in post #357.  It's a long thread though.

Celeste

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ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings madrabbit,

i would tend to agree with you, except that he HAS done things to threaten my life or health, so i'm not quite sure how that fits your picture of his mentality being particularly benevolent, so to speak (nor why you presume to know his mentality at all).

i certainly don't presume to know his whole reasoning on the subject, at least not such that i can respond to your post from his perspective. all i can say is that from first-hand experience he is not the type to limit activities just because they might be threatening to my life or health, so i'm not quite sure where he fits into your schema. he describes himself as no limits, although i think he might stop short of outright killing me because that would kind of remove the fun, but that's immaterial to me. but you lost me with the "master perspective" bit to begin with so perhaps i'm misunderstanding completely what you are trying to get at.

respectfully,
annabelle.

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ORIGINAL: susie

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ORIGINAL: submittous

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

prop, again I will say that it's not about you and him. It's about not being willing to say "it's ok for Master's/Dominants to take individuals who are incapable of consent (mentally incompetent) and abuse them at will under the umbrella of this lifestyle.

I'd bet that when prop was discharged and released from her hospitalization she recieved paperwork that essentially certifies that she was then mentally competent, otherwise whe would not have been released. What sort of verification do you have that you are competent? If you are like most of us, none until and unless you have been committed and discharged, which by your standards would make you incompetent.

I once worked for a man who had been hospitalized for depression and he took great pride in lambasting the rest of us because he was "the only muthafucka in this place that can prove he is sane". And he was.

I think you jump to conclusions when you assume someone hospitalized at some point in their lives is forever viewable as mentally incompetent.

I do agree with your premise that consent is only valid when the person giving it is capable of doing so, but that is a complex situation to understand. I also totally agree with props concerns about demonization of relationship systems in bdsm by individuals who usually don't or can't understand the realities of the judged relationships. I've been involved in bdsm for a long time and the vast majority of horror stories I have heard about and later investigated turned out to be more hype than problem.... Once the real situations were understood and the real people talked to the real story came out and the more rational and legitimate their situation turned out to be.

Over reacting and running screaming "OMG he is gonna kill you and feed your ears to the dogs" seems to most often be the tactic of people who have looked at something they didn't understand and not the reaction of  experienced  accepting bdsm people who see a situation that is truly dangerous.  The few times I have run accross really dangerous situations in bdsm the solutions have always been easy to see and execute and never required histrionics.

I think this thread has a lot of reaction from people who see something that for whatever reason they don't understand and that scares them and when they demonize others bdsm relationships it hurts us all and spreads the paranoia that what we do is wrong, dangerous or somehow evil.

Let's all take a deep breath and realize that none of us has all the answers, in fact we are only looking for the answers that work for ourselves.... seldom or maybe never are those answers universal and applicable to everyone in bdsm.

Bill

I think in this case what erin is talking about is someone who has by her own admission been legally declared incompetent and who has posted often about the abuse she suffers at the hands of her master. We (as in the majority of people on this site) always talk about the difference between WIIWD and abuse and yet in this case it is overlooked because the person involved says it is what she wants.

If someone came on to the boards and said "I have been declared incompetent but I am here looking for a sadistic Master. I don't mind if he abuses me, breaks my legs, lets his friends rape me or if he wants to kill me" then you and most every other person here would tell them to stay well away from that situation.

I personally don't see her relationship with her "Master" as something that should be openly encouraged as being within what we normally call the "lifestyle" and I don't view it as a healthy relationship at all. But that is my opinion.

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daddysprop247
however in my case i was declared mentally incompetent by the state, due to an involuntary in-patient psych commitment....very long, boring, infuriating story there that i won't get into on the board. the sole bright spot in the whole situation was that it presented my Master with an opportunity to do something he'd wanted to do since the very beginning...have some sort of legal reinforcement of his ownership over me, even to the limited degree available under US law. He realized that my being declared mentally incompetent opened the door for him to be able to become my legal guardian and for me to be declared his ward for life. so that is what he did. actually i was only released from the looney bin under the condition that it was under his care (as he is considered a mentally and emotionally stable model citizen, *smirk*), and with the understanding that he was soon to be my legal guardian. so basically you could say he took advantage of an otherwise horrible situation, and i'm grateful for that everyday.

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Actually, daddysprop has never said that she is now competent. She has never said that she has even ever been re-evaluated. daddysprop is a very eloquent and intelligent poster and many people see that as an indicator of her competence. However, eloquence and intelligence have nothing whatsoever to do with psychiatric competency.

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daddysprop247
however in my case i was declared mentally incompetent by the state, due to an involuntary in-patient psych commitment....very long, boring, infuriating story there that i won't get into on the board. the sole bright spot in the whole situation was that it presented my Master with an opportunity to do something he'd wanted to do since the very beginning...have some sort of legal reinforcement of his ownership over me, even to the limited degree available under US law. He realized that my being declared mentally incompetent opened the door for him to be able to become my legal guardian and for me to be declared his ward for life. so that is what he did. actually i was only released from the looney bin under the condition that it was under his care (as he is considered a mentally and emotionally stable model citizen, *smirk*), and with the understanding that he was soon to be my legal guardian. so basically you could say he took advantage of an otherwise horrible situation, and i'm grateful for that everyday.