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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:39:40 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

how is "she's a masochist, your honor, who fully consented to it" going to get anyone off of a battery charge?

because you can consent to sex, and you cannot consent to battery...it is not a valid comparison...my point was get her legal status not that of a child, and they can do what ever the heck they want...well actually they do that now...but i would not do that to my owner...i just wanted some of that l-o-g-i-c stuff...sorry...

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 521

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:40:01 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

If i knew a slave and she was going to walk off a cliff because her master told her to i would call 911 and report it, if i couldn't save her myself. It is my judgement that anyone who would do such a thing is not working on all cylinders and any master who would command such a thing is no more then a murderer in my eyes. If that's judgemental than so be it. i hope i am always judgemental, the day i stop being so i loose part of my humanity.

Anyone else hearing the echoes of the Schiavo case here?

Wow...are you seriously comparing that here in this context? Holy Smokes!

Ludicrous. i happened to be on the husbands side in that fiasco. She was terminal, never going to recover

We all are.

quote:

and she made her wishes known before she ever got sick.

Prop claims she was in her relationship with Daddy a year before being declared incompetent.

Seems to me she "made her wishes known before she ever got sick".

quote:

That predicament wasn't about competance it was about the right to live or die in a situation where all was hopeless for the woman. Nuff said O.o

Actually, the fight was over who should speak for her: her husband or her parents.

The decision to terminate her life was already made. It was all the challenges the parents raised that brought it out to the public.

Seems to me you want to speak for Prop's "best interests".

That you have to ignore Prop and the state who both agree Daddy is the best guardian for her doesn't seem to bother you a bit.

You telling me a complete stranger who doesn't know the details of the situation knows better than those who are involved intimately?

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 522

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:42:37 AM

obei

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

What a great topic and I have read many very insightful opinions. As for me, I do know I have limits, some hard and some not. While I can understand the logic of those who say being with the right person means you don't have limits because they would never ask you to do something you either could not or would not do, I still feel that in all honesty, regardless of the person I'd still have some limits. For example, I would never do anything that victimized an unwilling person or thing and that will always be a hard limit. On the other hand, there are a few things that I consider soft limits simply because I'm unfamiliar with them or find them a bit intimidating. I can certainly agree that those types of limits could change over time with the right person as trust was built.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 523

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:44:01 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I understand that you aren't critisizing the slaves side, but the dominants.
Why does this make any difference though? It really doesn't. Either way it is a witch hunt.

quote:

If she did die, is that what you would tell her mother?

I would tell her nothing - because she isn't my responsibility. She isn't yours either. And that is the crunch.
I don't believe in some big ole BDSM community. I do not believe that BDSM adheres well with the whole 'community' thought. I don't believe in it being some 'Lifestyle'. I don't suck up to the whole belief that we should be portraying a postive image just to please the masses. I like what I like and theres not a damn thing that matters what anyone else expects, thinks or believes. I am not going to waste my time trying to make BDSM respectable when respectable is subjective. I am not into fooling myself that SSC is even remotely acceptable for me and that total consensual relationships and behaviour exists because it doesn't and I accept that responsibility and take the fall if I have to.
I have sat watching this thread, watching people harp on and on and yet on another thread, people are almost congratulating someone for breaking the law and condoning the actions even though it could result in deaths of others.(Speeding thread).

Daddy and prop portray themselves exactly how they want. Whether you believe them or not is up to you. Whether you like it or not is up to you. And because they bring it into the open forum, they know they are going to get negative and positive responses. But when you cast that stone on Daddy - remember all the laws you break every bloody day and all the non consents you negate just by living your life... and that doesn't even start with BDSM.

the.dark.

this, right here, is worth repeating again and again

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 524

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:46:45 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

how is "she's a masochist, your honor, who fully consented to it" going to get anyone off of a battery charge?

because you can consent to sex, and you cannot consent to battery...it is not a valid comparison...my point was get her legal status not that of a child, and they can do what ever the heck they want...well actually they do that now...but i would not do that to my owner...i just wanted some of that l-o-g-i-c stuff...sorry...

your l-o-g-i-c is flawed, then.

even if her legal status was that of an adult, unless they are ONLY having vanilla sex, battery is still battery, so NO, they (just like the rest of us) can't just "do whatever the heck they want" in the eyes of the law. just because it is a different law being broken, doesn't mean no law is being broken.

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 525

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:46:53 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Seems to me you want to speak for Prop's "best interests".

That you have to ignore Prop and the state who both agree Daddy is the best guardian for her doesn't seem to bother you a bit.

You telling me a complete stranger who doesn't know the details of the situation knows better than those who are involved intimately?

i never claimed to know anything i always said i can only go by what prop herself has posted. i suggest you go read them yourself before posting on things you really know nothing about. In her own words she was so depserate and unhappy she wanted to KILL herself (when she began her relationship with her daddy after he took her as ward) i am not making this crap up i read it in HER posts. She posted about feeling helpless and hopeless, spoke often of abuse abuse abuse - i did not choose her words SHE DID. If she accepted her daddys actions why did SHE CHOOSE to use the word abuse when describing what was done to her. If i accepted treatment from someone i don't think i would choose to call it abuse and stirr the shit pot, unless of course that was my whole intention from the beginning. Get my drift?

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Bobkgin)

Post #: 526

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:56:49 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings velvetears,

if i am not mistaken, her references to feeling helpless and hopeless had nothing to do with her relationship, rather how she felt before/during the early period of her relationship because of her own depression and things happening previous to the relationship. i might be completely wrong on this, but i read her post to mean that being her daddy's property actually helped her come to terms with her depression and those feelings and helped her with those, not that being his property was the cause of those feelings.

in some cases "abuse," meaning actual physical harm (not short term physical hurt) actually is an accurate word to describe some activities. in the sense that abuse refers to actual physical harm (that can be lasting or threaten life or health), there are many actions that m/s or bdsm people do that are abusive. i believe there was one post early on in the thread where prop stated that she labeled those actions as abusive because by the clinical definition, they are. at least from my own point of view in my relationship, that doesn't necessarily make them unconsensual.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 527

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:57:42 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Very true. But I have yet to find someone who would say that anal sex so rough that it opens up tears in the anus (an area with high bacterial concentration) that can lead to bloodborne illnesses, beating a woman so violently her bones are broken, or exposing her to violent, unprotected sex with people who may or may not have STDs is in her best interest.

Are you going to be the first? Are you going to tell me that she is better off having those things done to her than if he didn't do those things? No skirting the issue by saying "well she is better with him than without him" - that's not what I'm asking. I'm talking about the actions themselves - would she be better off if he did not do those specific actions. Or do you genuinely believe that a person is better off being consistently exposed to threats of disfigurement and illnesses that can cause death?

xoxi,

i am the type that tends not to make judgments about those who say they are happy in their relationship. So if that is the case, i am not the one to judge who does what to the other.

i am not a masochist but when i have heard some extreme masochist tales, i have cringed; that doesn't mean that i don't respect what they do in their relationship. So honestly, i am not the one to ask about what's in one's best interest if none of the parties involved are complaining.

i recall some time ago a thread where Kyra said KoM punches and kicks her. A DQ immediately announced "that is abuse!"....so then we had to have another thread about what constitutes abuse. As you well know, what constitutes abuse to one may not in any way be so to another. That is the beauty of all these diverse relationships.

You are trying to build a case that because prop is not competent, her Daddy abuses her. But if it's true what others have said, that the mental health authorities follow up on these things....then obviously they have not discovered such things. He must be passing some "test", no? i mean, she's been with him like 6 or 7 years (or somewhere around there). She certainly is not a newbie to the lifestyle she has chosen with him.

If anyone here had a partner that long and came on and said their Master told them to jump off a cliff, they did and broke both their legs....my first question would be "and were you somehow fulfilled by that?" If their answer is yes...then i go on my way. Again, i have no inclination to judge what people who profess happiness are doing in their relationship.

Prop isn't asking how she can get out that relationship. She is saying that is where she needs to be. And far be it from me to argue that point with her....particularly when i've never met the girl to begin with. So i go about my life...and wish her happiness in hers. i guess i'll just leave the judging to those who feel so inclined.

DG

(in reply to xoxi)

Post #: 528

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 10:58:18 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Seems to me you want to speak for Prop's "best interests".

That you have to ignore Prop and the state who both agree Daddy is the best guardian for her doesn't seem to bother you a bit.

You telling me a complete stranger who doesn't know the details of the situation knows better than those who are involved intimately?

i never claimed to know anything i always said i can only go by what prop herself has posted. i suggest you go read them yourself before posting on things you really know nothing about. In her own words she was so depserate and unhappy she wanted to KILL herself (when she began her relationship with her daddy after he took her as ward) i am not making this crap up i read it in HER posts. She posted about feeling helpless and hopeless, spoke often of abuse abuse abuse - i did not choose her words SHE DID. If she accepted her daddys actions why did SHE CHOOSE to use the word abuse when describing what was done to her. If i accepted treatment from someone i don't think i would choose to call it abuse and stirr the shit pot, unless of course that was my whole intention from the beginning. Get my drift?

I -never- take anyone's word regarding another Velvet. Especially on a bdsm board.

You say "i can only go by what prop herself has posted". Thus far, the relevant information she has posted I've seen says this life is much better for her than any other, and that she and Daddy conspired to get her out of the hospital.

And the State allowed it. I see no one suggesting the state routinely hands out guardianships for young women to strange men, so there is obviously some connection here which the -State- recognizes as legitimate and safe for Prop.

All the dancing about what they do does not hide the fact that this relationship is, in part, a legal entity sanctioned by the State.

And the fact that Prop is happier this way.

Despite the effort to cloud this with legalities which are, for some reason, not applied to all the other bdsm activities which break laws, this boils down to a group of people who do not like Prop and/or do not like that she posts here.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 529

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:02:49 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

your l-o-g-i-c is flawed, then.

even if her legal status was that of an adult, unless they are ONLY having vanilla sex, battery is still battery, so NO, they (just like the rest of us) can't just "do whatever the heck they want" in the eyes of the law. just because it is a different law being broken, doesn't mean no law is being broken.

if her legal status were that of an adult, they wouldn't be being monitored on a regular by state and local agencies - leaving out the possibility of gross neglect on the part of said agencies - checking on her health and well being, and should anything visably wrong turn up they would report it, there would be an investigation, so forth and so on...(i would think repeated broken bones would throw up red flags) like i said in another post, i deal with this quite often...at some point in the distant future i am looking at possibly being another adult person's legal gaurdian...i am 4th in the "chain" of things...

but! i have figured it all out...once again

My fellow conspiracy theorists...

i have figured it all out...Daddysprop is a Doctorate level grad student who has been studying us for years and this school year when they will write their final thesis....feel free to discuss and further develop....

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 530

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:10:37 AM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

Just a thought and perhaps an unwelcomed one

Although I agree that mental incompency and legal consent is a valid discussion. Making an individual into a CM science project and subjecting the individual under our own microscope is not a fair debate. Can we leave individual persons out of the discussion and speak on whatever current topic this thread takes us?

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/20/2007 11:11:31 AM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to Bobkgin)

Post #: 531

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:11:35 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings velvetears,

if i am not mistaken, her references to feeling helpless and hopeless had nothing to do with her relationship, rather how she felt before/during the early period of her relationship because of her own depression and things happening previous to the relationship. i might be completely wrong on this, but i read her post to mean that being her daddy's property actually helped her come to terms with her depression and those feelings and helped her with those, not that being his property was the cause of those feelings.

in some cases "abuse," meaning actual physical harm (not short term physical hurt) actually is an accurate word to describe some activities. in the sense that abuse refers to actual physical harm (that can be lasting or threaten life or health), there are many actions that m/s or bdsm people do that are abusive. i believe there was one post early on in the thread where prop stated that she labeled those actions as abusive because by the clinical definition, they are. at least from my own point of view in my relationship, that doesn't necessarily make them unconsensual.

respectfully,
annabelle.

i remember her saying when she first became his and it was a done deal and that she could never ever leave this made her very depressed and also the things he did to her made her depressed to the point of wanting to kill herself. She still claims to be depressed.

Abuse imo has negative connotations. Words will affect people - abuse is one of those words that when heard will push buttons and debate will ensue. She talks about her master punching, kicking and so forth to the point of abuse breaking bones etc. She called herself his punching bag - that when he punishes her she accpets that he will harm her.... i have read many a thread where people condem punishment in anger because the dom should always maintain control and not punish uncontrollably, but here we are accepting it in props case? If someone likes abuse or accepts it, how is it abuse? i can see that something i might like can be seen as abuse by others but if i accpt it and like it, by definition is it still abuse? Maybe i am putting to much into the term, maybe it is used lightly with others and not intended as "this isn't something i like" But than again in many of her posts she said a lot of what her daddy did to her she did not like.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 532

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:18:33 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

your l-o-g-i-c is flawed, then.

even if her legal status was that of an adult, unless they are ONLY having vanilla sex, battery is still battery, so NO, they (just like the rest of us) can't just "do whatever the heck they want" in the eyes of the law. just because it is a different law being broken, doesn't mean no law is being broken.

if her legal status were that of an adult, they wouldn't be being monitored on a regular by state and local agencies - leaving out the possibility of gross neglect on the part of said agencies - checking on her health and well being, and should anything visably wrong turn up they would report it, there would be an investigation, so forth and so on...(i would think repeated broken bones would throw up red flags) like i said in another post, i deal with this quite often...at some point in the distant future i am looking at possibly being another adult person's legal gaurdian...i am 4th in the "chain" of things...

but! i have figured it all out...once again

My fellow conspiracy theorists...

i have figured it all out...Daddysprop is a Doctorate level grad student who has been studying us for years and this school year when they will write their final thesis....feel free to discuss and further develop....

oooooooooooo-kay.

back to the l-o-g-i-c:

wasn't "illegal shit" your whole arguement? that her status didn't give her "legal" right to consent?

you talk about your Owner. pretty sure everyone knows it's illegal to own another human being....so, l-o-g-i-c-ally you must be either participating in "illegal shit" or perhaps you might be in need of some "help"?

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 533

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:19:40 AM

susie

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

If i knew a slave and she was going to walk off a cliff because her master told her to i would call 911 and report it, if i couldn't save her myself. It is my judgement that anyone who would do such a thing is not working on all cylinders and any master who would command such a thing is no more then a murderer in my eyes. .

....and people ask me why don't you have a profile here anymore?

With posters like this here who needs enemies.

Well thank goodness there are a whole lot of people out there that do not feel the same way as you. If you would just stand by and watch someone jump off a cliff without making any attempt at intervention then that is a very sad position to be in.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 534

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:22:01 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

i used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy and hope one day i lived in a fairy princess castle and could ride unicorns and wear those white flowing dresses but i grew up Bob and became an adult and no longer believe all that i read. Life has taught me many lessons along the way, good and necessary lessons. You want to see the unicorns and i want to see reality of what was ACTUALLY POSTED... enjoy your ride

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Bobkgin)

Post #: 535

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:30:55 AM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

oooooooooooo-kay.

back to the l-o-g-i-c:

wasn't "illegal shit" your whole arguement? that her status didn't give her "legal" right to consent?

you talk about your Owner. pretty sure everyone knows it's illegal to own another human being....so, l-o-g-i-c-ally you must be either participating in "illegal shit" or perhaps you might be in need of some "help"?

definition of Owner in this context: relationship dynamic, not bought, and therefore have a right to sell, throw away or destroy...

and no, it's not a case of might be in need of some "help"...i definately need mental health help...but not because i like the relationship dynamic of being Owned (i've been reassured thats perfectly fine by many mental health professionals) ...more along the lines of i can't let an argument go when i am clearly not getting anywhere...though i might be getting somewhere...*taps her cane blindly in front of her*

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 536

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:31:41 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

If i knew a slave and she was going to walk off a cliff because her master told her to i would call 911 and report it, if i couldn't save her myself. It is my judgement that anyone who would do such a thing is not working on all cylinders and any master who would command such a thing is no more then a murderer in my eyes. .

....and people ask me why don't you have a profile here anymore?

With posters like this here who needs enemies.

Well thank goodness there are a whole lot of people out there that do not feel the same way as you. If you would just stand by and watch someone jump off a cliff without making any attempt at intervention then that is a very sad position to be in.

It isn't just someone, it is a slave ordered to jump by her owner. Where exactly do I get the right to impose my will upon her or him? What if she wouldn't give me consent to intervene? What about HER rights and her right to surrender her will to her owner, including the right to her life? I thought this was all about consent...now we are going to decide some activities are just things nobody can possibly consent too? So who gets to rule what actvities are OK and which ones are not?

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 9/20/2007 11:36:20 AM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 537

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:36:39 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

~ FR ~

Truly fascinating, the direction this has turned. Wowser!

To .the dark., Chewsie, beth, adaddysgirl, IrishMist...and anyone else on that same plane - I applaud what you are saying.

I am extremely careful about what I put out here, because I've watched the prop-witch-hunt repeatedly on these boards, and because frankly I don't have the kind of stamina she has to keep spreading the message.

And adaddysgirl, my Master has been called a piece of shit, an abuser, and far worse, both on these boards and in private email, for what little I have revealed about our relationship.

It's funny to me, in an odd sort of way, that if a race car driver dies from an awful crash, or a stunt pilot takes a fateful explosive plunge to the ground, the general consenus is, "Well he died doing what he loved." A dangerous, high risk career in which obtaining life insurance must surely be a bitch, but if he dies doing it, and his odds are much higher at dying an early death than say a school teacher, he died doing what he loved, isn't that awesome, let's all light candles and call him a hero.

But if I died at my Master's hand, in an ultimate state of bliss, having lived as I've never lived before...well let's call the cops, haul his ass in jail and stamp VICTIM in 120 point font all over my headstone.

You know that scenario I wrote about in other threads about safewords, where I explained I thought my ankle was breaking so I screamed out "ankle!" a bunch of times? The thought that was running through my head at the time was not "Oh dear god stop cuz you're breaking my ankle" It was "I wonder if he'll let my ankle break, and if so, how long I'll be on crutches"

There are "immoral" and "illegal" and "unethical" and "dangerous" risks he exposes me to periodically. He is aware of the risk. He prefers to not damage or kill me. But he knows that some of what he does is dangerous and edgy. Hey I'll jump out of an airplane with a parachute...well when I do what he subjects me to, he is my parachute, and if something malfunctions, then you can all say I died doing what I loved to do.

So call me crazy. Maybe I am. But I'm living life to its fullest, and enjoying every minute of it!

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 538

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:47:41 AM

Bobkgin

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i used to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy and hope one day i lived in a fairy princess castle and could ride unicorns and wear those white flowing dresses but i grew up Bob and became an adult and no longer believe all that i read. Life has taught me many lessons along the way, good and necessary lessons. You want to see the unicorns and i want to see reality of what was ACTUALLY POSTED... enjoy your ride

You know, Velvet. You might be right.

Maybe I am chasing unicorns.

I happen to believe in Diversity, Individuality. I think its a logical result of a species number 6 billion +.

If Daddy and Prop are standing out there on the fringe of consensual interaction that's their business.

If you hear of them talking about involving innocents in non-consensual ways, you let me know and I'll rally to the charge.

But what they do between them I view as done between husband and wife, and I will -not- mess with that. If either of them want help getting out of it, our society has made it extremely easy for them. That Prop is here tells me she has contact with the outside world. Her mental state is her business. I'm not involved, not going to be involved, let alone involved enough to be able to sort out what is what.

Would I do what you claim has been done to her? No. Diversity and Individuality specifically recognizes what I do others do not, and vice versa. That we are each a blend of many qualities and beliefs, unique.

Does Prop suffer from low self-esteem? I don't believe so. It takes courage to post her thoughts here, and fortitude to read the responses and defend her statements or try to clarify them. Neither courage nor fortitude are in much supply with one who lacks self-esteem, unless the individual has hyper-inflated her ego. And Prop does not show that quality.

So Prop has a healthy dose of self-esteem, she is reasonably intelligent and articulate, and has chosen a way of life that is at the extreme end of "obedience", a valid BDSM kink.

Yet we are to make a hullabaloo because they've got a document that makes her master her guardian too?

Throw that away and everything is okey-dokey?

All this vitriol over a piece of paper is ridiculous given the evidence in hand that Prop knows what she is doing and is competent enough to make that decision.

And as almost everyone is saying it is not the kink, it is the legality, while refusing to recognize Prop's courage and fortitude to put up with the slings and arrows hurled at her...

... rather obvious the motive has nothing to do with what has been stated publicly.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to velvetears)

Post #: 539

RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/20/2007 11:48:37 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

oooooooooooo-kay.

back to the l-o-g-i-c:

wasn't "illegal shit" your whole arguement? that her status didn't give her "legal" right to consent?

you talk about your Owner. pretty sure everyone knows it's illegal to own another human being....so, l-o-g-i-c-ally you must be either participating in "illegal shit" or perhaps you might be in need of some "help"?

definition of Owner in this context: relationship dynamic, not bought, and therefore have a right to sell, throw away or destroy...

and no, it's not a case of might be in need of some "help"...i definately need mental health help...but not because i like the relationship dynamic of being Owned (i've been reassured thats perfectly fine by many mental health professionals) ...more along the lines of i can't let an argument go when i am clearly not getting anywhere...though i might be getting somewhere...*taps her cane blindly in front of her*

regardless of how your psychobabblist(s) feel about your fantasy of having an "Owner", again, wasn't "illegal shit" your arguement...or are you trying to say your way is okay because everything you and your fantasy "Owner" do is legal?

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 540

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