RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !!

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missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 9:49:37 AM)
this slave prefers, thrives and is fulfilled in a relationship structure where she doesn't call ANY of the shots, doesn't limit Master and doesn't have to keep a safeword at the ready Me too [:D]

slavegirljoy -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 9:54:51 AM)
To both missturbation and Mercnbeth, you both have stated the way i feel about my need to be owned and controlled. In fact, it was my deep desire and need to be entirely under one man's power/control/will, that i gave up being a "Part Time submissive" with Doms and actively looked for and found a Master, who would take ownership of me and make me His full time slave. It was not enough for me to be required to submit only on occasion or only within a sexual activity. i needed to be fully dominated in all aspects of my life, day in and day out. i have never used a safeword in my life. In fact, when one Dom even asked me what my safeword was, i had no idea what he was talking about and i told him i didn't have one. So, he gave me one, just in case, and i never once used it. It seemed silly to me, because if i felt so uncertain about this man and what he might be capable of doing to me that i would even consider needing a safeword in order to control him from doing something to me that i didn't want, i wouldn't have had any desire to submit to him, in the first place. Having that much control over our relationship, that i can order him to stop, simply by uttering a code word, to me, defeats the whole intent of my being submissive to him. i needed to relinquish any authority i had over my life to a Master, who i felt was the right man to take on that responsibility and release me from the burden of having to make decisions for myself. He has freed me from that chore. He has taken on the burden of providing for my welfare and my safety and my needs. All i have to do is whatever He says. i defer to Him on all matters. i yield to His Power over me, whether i like something or not (and, there's plenty of things that i don't like), and i submit to His Dominance, always. This gives me a very strong sense of security and allows me to be myself to the fullest extent possible. And, i am eternally grateful for my Master and all that He does for me. slave joy Owned property of Master David quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation ...My non enjoyment of an activity is no reason to make it a limit... until this slave became a participant and reader of this internet message board, she thought the above statement was the difference between submitting in a relationship and Dominating one...as in, the one who limits what activities will or will not be done, and, to take it a step further, who will make the decisions when it comes to life choices is the one that is the Dominant part of the D/s. all or nothing is how this slave rolls, so to further complicate things this slave had never considered nor heard the term "switch", with regard to relationship orientations, either!!!! then she came here and found folks arguing over it as if it was the difference between slave and submissive, sane or insane...not just a preference on who calls the shots... this slave prefers, thrives and is fulfilled in a relationship structure where she doesn't call ANY of the shots, doesn't limit Master and doesn't have to keep a safeword at the ready.

AquaticSub -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:00:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I would not dream of saying 'i cannot wear a gag for more than ten minutes because of my asthma', setting a limit on the play. We don't consider that, in the slightest, to be setting a limit. I have allergic reactions to the cold. If he puts ice on my skin, I welt up. If I breathe in cold air, there is a chance of me having an asthmatic reaction and regardless, I have trouble breathing. Valyraen has stated, quite firmly, that I am required to tell him when the air is too cold. If he wanted me to wear a tiny shirt and slutty top (which he never would but let's just say he did) on a cold day, my telling him "Sir, I can not wear that because it is too cold" is not setting a limit. It is making him aware of a possible risk to my health. It is obeying him. Now I trust him to then go "Oh, ok, didn't realize. Forget that then. New plan!" BTW, my reactions are not easy to predict - even I can not always be sure as it varies depending on the temp. and the water in the air, so it isn't something he can look at the temp. and go "Ok, it is below 60 degrees, should make Aqua bundle up.". If I had regular asthema, you could not imagine how much trouble I would be in for not telling him "I can only wear this gag for ten minutes before I start having trouble". He doesn't give a damn if I remind him of something he already knows - he wants me alive and he wants me aware of my own limitations more than he wants a display of trust given in that manner.

WillowRain -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:04:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation If i trust Sir implicitly would i really have limits (hard or otherwise) or would i trust that He would not go to far? If i trust Sir implicitly would i really need a safe word or would i trust that He would see i needed to stop, see i only thought i needed to stop? * Not sure i've been too clear in my questions here. Im not looking for why people use safe words really, more how 100% trust can equate to the need for a safe word or limits. I might offer that perhaps you and your Sir have reached a point where he reads your non verbal safe words. He knows you well enough that he can judge by your body, your breath, the look in your eyes where you are at. You may not be calling out a "safe word" but if you think about it, or ask him about it, I bet he uses his judgement to "hear" or "see" or "feel" things in you and your behavior that function as safe words. What matters is that you two have found a way to communicate where you are, and how you are doing during experiences with him, however that manifests. You communicate to him in a way he understands. I think it is a bit silly to place value judements on what is better, a spoken word, or a recognized posture or breath pattern. It's just all about good communication and giving the Dominant the information they need to keep you safe, sane and healthy. If you didn't trust them, why on earth would you do any bdsm type stuff with them? Why would you follow them? Why would you entrust them with leadership? Why would you let them tie you up? Or take you into extreme sensation? None of that makes any rational sense unless you deeply trust the person. People communicate in different ways, to me it makes no statement about value or worth or level of trust if a pair need to use an actual word or words to communicate between them.

breatheasone -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:08:40 AM)
quote: People communicate in different ways, to me it makes no statement about value or worth or level of trust if a pair need to use an actual word or words to communicate between them. Yep....

SolarAndViolet -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:09:53 AM)
First of all, the example with the knives don't apply to me. I do trust him not to cut me and he never has. Just wanted to say that. Secondly.... You have to keep in mind that not all Doms are like yours. Some actually do not enjoy doing things if they know that their partner is not enjoying it either. Some things they do, others they don't. If my Sir knows that something is going to make me sick to my stomach, like for example, watersports. (Not judging anyone who does enjoy this kink.. just stating my own personal view on it) He will not enjoy doing it. And I understand you don't view it in that way and it doesn't make a limit for you, but it does for me and my Sir. Our relationship is a partnership, we want both to be happy in our relationship, and we are. He cares for my likes as well as my dislikes. And again, I do trust him completely. I totally agree with 'breatheasone' because just like you don't get us, I don't get you... and how you equate 'limits' with 'lack of trust' But I will just shrug and let it go. :) Your view and relationship is different from mine, and the important thing that you are happy within yours and I'm happy within mine. I doubt that I'll be able to give any more to help you understand. At this point, I do think that you either accept the other different relationships that are unlike yours, or you do not. There is no one right way to be in a D/s relationship. It is, what makes the couple happy. But I do give you all the props for trying. 'violet' *Edited to remove a big-ass quote*

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:16:22 AM)
We don't consider that, in the slightest, to be setting a limit. You see i do. Anything that says 'i can but .........' is setting a limit on something for me. If I had regular asthema, you could not imagine how much trouble I would be in for not telling him "I can only wear this gag for ten minutes before I start having trouble". Sir knows i have asthma, i do not need to remind Him of this. I trust He has been given this info and remembers this info. He doesn't give a damn if I remind him of something he already knows - he wants me alive and he wants me aware of my own limitations more than he wants a display of trust given in that manner. Then this is probably where we differ. For me repeating that kind of info shows a lack of trust that Sir took it in the first time.

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:20:15 AM)
I totally agree with 'breatheasone' because just like you don't get us, I don't get you... and how you equate 'limits' with 'lack of trust' But I will just shrug and let it go. :) Your view and relationship is different from mine, and the important thing that you are happy within yours and I'm happy within mine. Most definately and it frustrates me that i just cant seem to get it. I mean understand how complete trust and setting limits can apply together. There is no one right way to be in a D/s relationship. It is, what makes the couple happy. Most definately again.

AquaticSub -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:20:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I cannot fathom how you would put a limit on something your dom enjoys just because you do not. Surely pleasing your dom by participating in this activity is more satisfying. Grrrr didnt really want to go into that but feel with all the mentions of my limit is there because i dont like it and dont want to do it warrants it. [:D] Valyraen very rarely enjoys beating me for the sake of beating me. He enjoys doing it with me being it is something we both in enjoy. I please my dominant by telling him exactly what I enjoy, exactly what I don't, and exactly what could cause me ill effects. He does not play with ice because it does not please him to see welts on my body or me struggling to breathe. It displeases him greatly, so I must tell him what I can and can not do regarding the cold. He wants me to enjoy myself and be relaxed. Therefore I must tell him what makes me nervous and what calms me. Perhaps you see that as setting limits. I see it as obeying and doing the things that please him. As far as sex and scenes go... he really has no interest in having me do something that I don't enjoy. He rarely uses my body to slake his lust because he finds going solo in the bathroom to be more efficant. There are occasions where he may do things just because it pleases him but it's rare. Taking something that I don't enjoy would honestly displease him more 9 times out of 10 or more. Not all are like this of course but mine is. Now... when it comes to fetching shit - doesn't matter if I like it or not. I'm getting him his drink, damn it. [:)]

hisannabelle -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:21:49 AM)
greetings aquaticsub, quote: Simple. When your ropes hurt you say "Please loosen the ropes" and it happens. If I don't use a safeword and I say "The ropes are too tight", he says "Too bad bitch!" actually, i don't think that safewords and saying, "please loosen the ropes" in a situation like mine (or what i think missturbation was describing - although i may be wrong about her view) can really be compared. i don't have a safeword in the sense that i can say something and he will just stop because i want him to stop. me saying, "please loosen the ropes," does not actually mean the ropes will be loosened. it means he knows i'm uncomfortable with the situation and chooses to act on it as he pleases. it is not, in my opinion, in any way similar to having any kind of term (whether a safeword or an understanding that my expressing being uncomfortable would actually be heeded) that is naturally expected to stop the situation or change things to the way i want them to be. he might choose to comply with what i want, he might not. in that way i do not believe they are comparable. just a thought. respectfully, annabelle.

AquaticSub -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:23:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Then this is probably where we differ. For me repeating that kind of info shows a lack of trust that Sir took it in the first time. Whereas we don't regard it as a display of trust to not remind him. If he wants a display of trust, he will tell me to get in the car because we are going on a drive during a snowstorm. He knows I hate being in the car during snowstorms (I will avoid them at all costs) but I trust his driving 100%.

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:25:54 AM)
might offer that perhaps you and your Sir have reached a point where he reads your non verbal safe words. He knows you well enough that he can judge by your body, your breath, the look in your eyes where you are at. You may not be calling out a "safe word" but if you think about it, or ask him about it, I bet he uses his judgement to "hear" or "see" or "feel" things in you and your behavior that function as safe words. Yes i agree with this totally. What matters is that you two have found a way to communicate where you are, and how you are doing during experiences with him, however that manifests. You communicate to him in a way he understands. I think it is a bit silly to place value judements on what is better, a spoken word, or a recognized posture or breath pattern. It's just all about good communication and giving the Dominant the information they need to keep you safe, sane and healthy I agree again. However i fail to see and i wish i could believe me how repeatedly stating limits is a show of trust. If you didn't trust them, why on earth would you do any bdsm type stuff with them? Why would you follow them? Why would you entrust them with leadership? Why would you let them tie you up? Or take you into extreme sensation? None of that makes any rational sense unless you deeply trust the person. If you do trust them why would you need to keep limits? If you do trust someone why would you need to repeat them? See there is always the other side of the coin too. People communicate in different ways, to me it makes no statement about value or worth or level of trust if a pair need to use an actual word or words to communicate between them. Being different to most (as i know i am) this is an issue for me and one i would like to resolve. Most peeps who know me in cm will know i hate judgement of any kind and to find myself being judgemental is like torture for me.

SolarAndViolet -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:36:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Valyraen very rarely enjoys beating me for the sake of beating me. He enjoys doing it with me being it is something we both in enjoy. I please my dominant by telling him exactly what I enjoy, exactly what I don't, and exactly what could cause me ill effects. He does not play with ice because it does not please him to see welts on my body or me struggling to breathe. It displeases him greatly, so I must tell him what I can and can not do regarding the cold. He wants me to enjoy myself and be relaxed. Therefore I must tell him what makes me nervous and what calms me. Perhaps you see that as setting limits. I see it as obeying and doing the things that please him. As far as sex and scenes go... he really has no interest in having me do something that I don't enjoy. He rarely uses my body to slake his lust because he finds going solo in the bathroom to be more efficant. There are occasions where he may do things just because it pleases him but it's rare. Taking something that I don't enjoy would honestly displease him more 9 times out of 10 or more. Not all are like this of course but mine is. Now... when it comes to fetching shit - doesn't matter if I like it or not. I'm getting him his drink, damn it. [:)] Aquatic, Thanks! That's what I was trying to get at... That Doms may not want to do things that their subs do not enjoy... 'violet'

AquaticSub -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:37:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SolarAndViolet Aquatic, Thanks! That's what I was trying to get at... That Doms may not want to do things that their subs do not enjoy... 'violet' Yay! I was helpful! [sm=mrpuffy.gif]

SolarAndViolet -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:41:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: SolarAndViolet Aquatic, Thanks! That's what I was trying to get at... That Doms may not want to do things that their subs do not enjoy... 'violet' Yay! I was helpful! [sm=mrpuffy.gif] Well to me you were :)

BeingChewsie -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:41:58 AM)
quote: this slave prefers, thrives and is fulfilled in a relationship structure where she doesn't call ANY of the shots, doesn't limit Master and doesn't have to keep a safeword at the ready Agreed! Thrives is a perfect word!

WillowRain -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 10:45:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation However i fail to see and i wish i could believe me how repeatedly stating limits is a show of trust. If you didn't trust them, why on earth would you do any bdsm type stuff with them? Why would you follow them? Why would you entrust them with leadership? Why would you let them tie you up? Or take you into extreme sensation? None of that makes any rational sense unless you deeply trust the person. If you do trust them why would you need to keep limits? If you do trust someone why would you need to repeat them? See there is always the other side of the coin too. People communicate in different ways, to me it makes no statement about value or worth or level of trust if a pair need to use an actual word or words to communicate between them. Being different to most (as i know i am) this is an issue for me and one i would like to resolve. Most peeps who know me in cm will know i hate judgement of any kind and to find myself being judgemental is like torture for me. Let me try a specific. You are equating safe words with a calling out of lack of trust. With my last partner at times it was almost a game for him sometimes to play me hard enough to get a yellow out of me. I dislike using safe words and will resist them. I will take pain until my body is starting to go into fight or flight responses and I want to flee in a gut animal way, and then I am somewhere around yellow. I may let things go until I am showing shock symptoms, shaking, panting. That yellow, that verbalizing of yellow, is a yeilding. I am admitting how far he is pushing me, and that I can't take everything he can give. For me, in those spaces, yellow isn't about trust, yellow is about yeilding. Trust was a given. Use of language and communication is very subtle, varried, and elaborate. If you had been in those spaces watching, and assumed that when I cried out yellow I was setting a limit on him, you would have been wrong. Me calling out yellow, is me admitting that I am incapable of actually taking everything he could give me. It was a form of yeilding. It was a way for me to accept, and call out, my own limits and boundaries, to admit to them, even though I didn't want to have any, even though I wanted to be able to bare the brunt of absolutely anything he had to give. For another person, safe words might be something they intentionally use to build trust. If you had a bottom who was very poor at boundaries, who was lacking in ability to state their own limits, it might be a teaching process. There might be great rewards from a loving Dominant who was trying to help their submissive develop the ability to define boundaries and speak out about them. Their ability to use a safe word might define and be a beautiful example of their own personal growth. Their ability to call out a safe word and move in spaces of trust that it is safe for them to be honest about who they are and where they are might in fact define the trust that is between them. The action of using safe words might actually build and grow trust. Don't get too caught up in assuming that what a safe word might mean to you and your Sir, would be the same thing it would mean to another person. There are so many ways that people can be together. What builds trust for you, or destroys trust for you is hugely unique to you. What builds trust for others, or destroys trust for others is hugely unique to them. Don't know if this helped or not... And it's just one persons opinion. :)

ownedgirlie -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 11:00:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie quote: this slave prefers, thrives and is fulfilled in a relationship structure where she doesn't call ANY of the shots, doesn't limit Master and doesn't have to keep a safeword at the ready Agreed! Thrives is a perfect word! Ditto. It's a word I picked up from Bita and continue to use. Threads like these are always interesting to me in a weird sort of way. The usual activities are thrown out there as hypothetical examples, as though to shock us into thinking, "Oh crap - you're right, I didn't consider he might want to do that to me" while not understanding that perhaps those activities are part of our normal interaction anyway? There seems to be an assumption that everyone shares the same limits. That is an incorrect assumption. There seems to be an assumption that just because a submissive/slave does not like doing a particular thing, it won't be done. That is an incorrect assumption. There seems to be an assumption that if we don't all think the same, because some of us don't subscribe to limits and safe words in our relationships, that something is wrong with us. Well, maybe there is, lol. Maybe there isn't. But to assume this as fact would be an incorrect assumption. In my slavery to my Master, a safe word would indicate lack of trust. Lack of trust in his ability to read me, lack of trust in his remembering what ails me, and lack of trust in his ability to dominate me as he believes is best. Since I am capable of alarming him to a potential problem, no matter what my state (it might even be a change in the way I am inhaling), there has not been a need to create a code word to do so. Oh and this was the way it's always been, from the very first time he made use of me. The most amazing thing - he read my reactions from the beginng. That went a long way in instilling a ton of trust. In my case, there were no medical issues to be aware of, but a lot of emotional ones. Once he smacked my ass with a shoe. Simple enough, right? Non threatening? I yelped and recoiled, as a suppressed memory of a childhood shoe-beating came flooding back into my head. In a heartbeat the shoe was dropped and my face was in his hands with his eyes looking right into me, as he told me to tell him what just happened. No damage done, instead an incredible bond was continued, and my trust in his ability to handle me grew deeply. Yep, thrive is a great word.

AquaticSub -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 11:11:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie There seems to be an assumption that if we don't all think the same, because some of us don't subscribe to limits and safe words in our relationships, that something is wrong with us. Well, maybe there is, lol. Maybe there isn't. But to assume this as fact would be an incorrect assumption. I hope that isn't the flavor you've gotten from me. Some people just don't want safewords - and to be honest, you'd never know we had one since it never gets used and we keep forgetting what the damn thing is! - and some people do. We just don't see it as a measure of trust either way in our relationship. [:)]

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 11:16:35 AM)
Don't get too caught up in assuming that what a safe word might mean to you and your Sir, would be the same thing it would mean to another person. There are so many ways that people can be together. What builds trust for you, or destroys trust for you is hugely unique to you. What builds trust for others, or destroys trust for others is hugely unique to them. I understand this. What i am hung up on is not the use of a safe word, kind of understanding the use of them now. Still not getting how having limits and repeating them equates to trust though.

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