RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !!

RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (Full Version)

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missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:01:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Ok maybe too strong a word to use but you accuse me of being wrong in my values. They are my values and whilst they may not be yours that does not make them wrong. You then go on to pull a quote from me which points to me being extremely judgemental of others but fail to state that i had already admitted my thoughts were judegemental and i was trying to change that. Give a girl a break for gods sake. Nope ......i said that you were wrong about me not having trust in my Master. Not once did i mention your values were wrong. Show me where i said you did not have trust in your Master? Not once have i said that. I have doubted it and asked for help understanding how you can have. There is a big difference.

AquaticSub -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:07:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Still not getting how having limits and repeating them equates to trust though. Perhaps what this boils down to is what is a show of trust to you. Kinky activities such as flogging, candle wax, caning, even singletails and to an extent needle play, breath play and knife play require little trust for me. I have trust them not to hurt me, but I will entrust my body and engage in these activites with people I would never trust my heart to. Because of this, I simply can not fathom how limiting or not limiting kink activities relates to trust. I am quite sure that there are relationships out there with huge trust issues that do everything under the sun without ever considering a safeword. That Valyraen has my heart, completely and totally, that he knows he does and that he knows I want to build a family with him and trust him to be a good father, is the biggest thing that will ever show my level of trust in him. Hope that makes some sense.

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:12:28 PM)
It makes sense in that it is yours and Valyraens way of doing and thinking. I think possibly again you may be right in that it does boil down to how i feel about trust and how i show it. Im in the minority i guess with how i feel about it but thats ok. I have to say i really appreciate that you are continuing to try and help me understand and be less judgemental on this subject. [:D]

AquaticSub -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:14:41 PM)
I wouldn't say you are in the minority. Sometimes I really feel like I am! We just come from different places but we both have happy and healthy relationships where we trust our partners. Variety is the spice of life! [:)]

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:16:39 PM)
Sure is [;)]

breatheasone -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:21:17 PM)
quote: Not for me, limits show lack of trust and therefore break down the bond of trust. quote: When trust grows between you why still the need for all these limits and special words to show a problem? quote: But further down the line why the need for them? You should know you partner well enough by then to say i have no limits, i trust you implicitly. quote: I place limits on my play with Sir. Eventually i am going to have to trust Him completely, 100% and drop the limits or keep showing i distrust Him in the areas my limits are. Granted you didnt say me personally....but.... Edited to add: I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree that having limits equals no trust...or a lack there of....

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:48:22 PM)
Those quotes only show i am questioning the levels of trust in relationships with safe words and limits. Nowhere have i said that trust in relationships such as those does not exist. I dont disagree that relationships having limits equals still having trust. I just have trouble understanding it.

arayofsunshine55 -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 1:52:45 PM)
I don't have a hardon for trust. It's not that big a deal for me. On the other hand, I don't trust myself completely. It would be for me a very romantic notion to think I trusted anyone else completely. Not to say I distrust them. Just that I'm one very realistic bitch.

Wildfleurs -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 2:21:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Threads like these are always interesting to me in a weird sort of way. The usual activities are thrown out there as hypothetical examples, as though to shock us into thinking, "Oh crap - you're right, I didn't consider he might want to do that to me" while not understanding that perhaps those activities are part of our normal interaction anyway? There seems to be an assumption that everyone shares the same limits. That is an incorrect assumption. There seems to be an assumption that just because a submissive/slave does not like doing a particular thing, it won't be done. That is an incorrect assumption. There seems to be an assumption that if we don't all think the same, because some of us don't subscribe to limits and safe words in our relationships, that something is wrong with us. Well, maybe there is, lol. Maybe there isn't. But to assume this as fact would be an incorrect assumption. I really agree with your post, but most of all what I quoted. And those are the main reasons I've stayed out of the threads out of late, it gets a little tiring. But I do have to say after many years with my owner, I find it bizzare when people feel that they absolutely know that he's gonna want me to eat a shit pizza tommorow and so I must absolutley think seriously about that possibility and what I'll do when it happens (which is.... eat shit pizza). We don't have compatible limits, and so I've had to and still work on stretching to get where he wants me to get (and so far it wasn't a shit pizza), and sometimes I need a hand from him to help me get there... but I usually get there eventually. C~ Edited to add: For me its not about trust, I don't believe that its possible to have absolute trust in anyone, at least for me. This desire to not put boundaries on him has more to do with a desire to let him feel unfettered in his access to me as well as my lack of interest in calling the shots. Similarly my lack of safewords is about having an interest in letting him decide when the SM ends and how it does.

breatheasone -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 2:25:51 PM)
My own personal bottom line ....i trust my Master. Period. I have limits...and i have two safe words(given to me to use by Him)

Maya2001 -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 2:53:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Don't get too caught up in assuming that what a safe word might mean to you and your Sir, would be the same thing it would mean to another person. There are so many ways that people can be together. What builds trust for you, or destroys trust for you is hugely unique to you. What builds trust for others, or destroys trust for others is hugely unique to them. I understand this. What i am hung up on is not the use of a safe word, kind of understanding the use of them now. Still not getting how having limits and repeating them equates to trust though. quote: On the issue of asthma, it does not mean i cannot participate in any breath play. Sir is aware of my asthma and take it into account whenever we use gags, strangulation etc. I do not feel the need to put a limit on this area because i trust He will not push the point of play to where i am gasping from breath and having an asthma attack. Yes accidents could happen though. this is one area a safe word or guesture could be used to prevent accidents from occuring , it becomes a warning from you to let him know that you are at the point of distress before the accident occurs there is nothing wrong with having one , sort off like having/wearing seatbelt in a car , putting it on does not mean you do not trust the driver, it is simply and extra safety device in the event something goes awry example and animal /child runs out in the road causing the driver to veer sharply which could cause a rollover or another car hits yours , in BDSM play unexpected things can go wrong as well , having a safe word or signal can also be just a safety device in those situations . The other problem I do find in your statements about no limits or discussing limits especailly in regards to health conditions -- example with length of time you can use a gag for example is you are trusting your dom to fully understand the medical condition and how it affect your play , most doms are not doctors or fully understand how a medical condition can affect play so sometimes it does have to be spelled out for them so they do know what is safe and how far they can go, they also need to trust that you as a sub or slave will provide all the information necessary regarding medical conditions to help ensure safe play for example I could have had the same dom for 20 years and trust them 100% but next week could go for a hysterectomy , telling him I am having a hysterectomy and just leaving it as that and expecting him to suddening become a medical expert and to know and decide on his own when it is safe to resume activities would be silly if he has no past experience with and even if he did it does not mean your own recovery will be exactly the same as someone elses , so it is up to you to provide him with that info and limits so he knows when and how far he can go safely and he has to trust you to honestly provide him with all the limits outlined/discussed by your doctors and not to be afraid not to do so because it may displease him to wait longer to engage play, because it sure beats him having a guilty conscious because damage occured to you which then extends your recovery time or put you back in the hopsital because you failed to provide him with that info. This is an example of where limits may occur even in a long term relationship where there is 100% trust

missturbation -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 3:03:18 PM)
this is one area a safe word or guesture could be used to prevent accidents from occuring , it becomes a warning from you to let him know that you are at the point of distress before the accident occurs there is nothing wrong with having one , sort off like having/wearing seatbelt in a car , putting it on does not mean you do not trust the driver, it is simply and extra safety device in the event something goes awry example and animal /child runs out in the road causing the driver to veer sharply which could cause a rollover or another car hits yours , in BDSM play unexpected things can go wrong as well , having a safe word or signal can also be just a safety device in those situations . I've not once questioned the use of them. I have questioned the need for one. Sir and i have discussed my asthma and no he isnt a doc but He also knows my asthma is quite mild and would recognise the signs i am about to have an attack. I never said we had not discussed my capabilities due to my having asthma, i said i had put no limits on play because of it.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 3:49:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation For me limits are about trust. If you say to your partner i have a limit on anal you would expect to be able to trust him to respect that limit wouldnt you? Yes I trust him to respect my limits. But trust is not why my limit exists.

teamnoir -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 4:37:19 PM)
Part of my trust, regardless of my role at the time, is trusting my partner to communicate and to respond to my communications. Safewords are part of that communications lexicon. I also trust that none of my partners are completely perfect mind readers.

WillowRain -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 5:07:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie WillowRain: If you didn't trust them, why on earth would you do any bdsm type stuff with them? Why would you follow them? Why would you entrust them with leadership? Why would you let them tie you up? Or take you into extreme sensation? None of that makes any rational sense unless you deeply trust the person. To this I would ask, Why? Deeply trust? "Deeply" is subjective, but some people do take leaps of faith - is that irrational behavior? Some people do listen to that gut feeling that tells them when going into a situation is safe or dangerous - would that be irrational? I did not "deeply trust" my Master when I asked him to train me as his slave...a leadership position. In which he tied me up. In which he gave me extreme sensations. I grew to deeply trust him, but we didn't start out that way. Maybe that was irrational, maybe not. It worked for me...but the statement above claims I was irrational. It's the themes that seem to communicate absolute truths for all that brought me to say what I did above. And I see them so often that it was reflected in my thoughts that were quoted above. Hope that explains where I was coming from. I'm completely cool with you having whatever experience is right for you, and healthy for you. Insert a "would not be a rational act for me" All of us are speaking from our own experience. My apologies if my perspective made you feel like I was invalidating your own. I wasn't. I was saying what it would mean in my particular case, because honestly, that's the only one I can be sure of... and even then... I am glad for you that your leap of faith has worked out for you, and brought you much happiness.

ownedgirlie -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 5:39:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WillowRain I'm completely cool with you having whatever experience is right for you, and healthy for you. Insert a "would not be a rational act for me" All of us are speaking from our own experience. My apologies if my perspective made you feel like I was invalidating your own. I wasn't. I was saying what it would mean in my particular case, because honestly, that's the only one I can be sure of... and even then... I am glad for you that your leap of faith has worked out for you, and brought you much happiness. Hi WillowRain, thanks for your post. No apology necessary at all; I do not feel invalidated by anything that has been said here. I was using your post with a few others to explain where I felt there was a theme of a particular type of thinking. No harm, no foul. Thanks for your clarification :)

Redoubt -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 5:57:50 PM)
quote: Other times he has read me so well that even as he sensed I was responding negatively, he immediately changed what he was doing, or in a couple of cases, stopped post-haste, pulled my face right to his and said "Talk to me. What's going on in your head right now?" Anyone else think that was red hot? I don't believe I've seen anyone who is currently outside of a relationship stating that they don't believe in the need for safewords. My stance... wouldn't it be wonderful if we didn't need safewords, and that the tops would be able to find the bottom line, and dance on it - yes. Do I believe those in a relationship can operate without safewords...? Of course. But for some who aren't quite where you are, a safeword for now is a way of helping them relax more. Is a safeword possibly able to cause a Top to be lax as far as paying attention goes? Yes, in probably the same frequency that some of the people who don't play with safewords occasionally go a little too far and "accidents happen" If you don't need to use safeword to have a good time honey, then enjoy life... don't worry about the folks that don't - help 'em, encourage 'em, even advise 'em... but don't worry about thinking that you're better than them, you're not "better" - you just have something they don't fully understand. If you need to feel superior, keep on judging them... because they've done nothing wrong other than play at a speed that works for them.

breatheasone -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 6:03:32 PM)
quote: quote: Other times he has read me so well that even as he sensed I was responding negatively, he immediately changed what he was doing, or in a couple of cases, stopped post-haste, pulled my face right to his and said "Talk to me. What's going on in your head right now?" Anyone else think that was red hot? Aye!...it was....

junecleaver -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 7:23:29 PM)
I don't have limits. At least I don't think I do? Maybe at some point I'll come across something. I do have a safeword. I didn't want it, because I feel along the same lines you do. But my Dominant chose it for me and gave guidelines for when it should be used. It's the way he wanted to run his relationship. At the time he gave it to me, I know he didn't completely trust his own ability to read me. A safeword was an extra precaution he took I guess. Now, I'm not sure why we still have it as I have never used it. But I'll float his boat however he wants me to. ;)

Redoubt -> RE: I'm being judgemental - apologies !! (9/20/2007 7:41:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: junecleaver I don't have limits. At least I don't think I do? Maybe at some point I'll come across something. I do have a safeword. I didn't want it, because I feel along the same lines you do. But my Dominant chose it for me and gave guidelines for when it should be used. It's the way he wanted to run his relationship. At the time he gave it to me, I know he didn't completely trust his own ability to read me. A safeword was an extra precaution he took I guess. Now, I'm not sure why we still have it as I have never used it. But I'll float his boat however he wants me to. ;) and this is why you leave it to beaver :) Sums up my feelings perfectly - well said june

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